Altay & Turkish Main Battle Tank Programs

[Dazzler]

I am not getting is there an issue with purposed Ukrainian engine in terms of dimensions or with Transmission ....

If its related to the dimensions of engine or space available for engine bay then it means Altay was specifically designed for MTU engine & its engine bay would not except any other engine, on a side note if you people don't take offence I would like to say it reflect the bad planing & to an extent design as well, the planners & designers of Altay failed to foresee the 'non-engineering' issues & hurdles related to this project. The over emphasis on one vendor/supplier has created a potential weak spot in the program which other can exploit

OTH if the issue is only related to transmission then we faced the same issue in our Al-Khalid program so to resolve it we use French ESM-500 (same as Leclerc tank) rather using Ukrainian transmission with their engine

@Dazzler I would like to known your comment which might helpful ...

Alkhalid uses Ukrainian transmission with multiple reverse speed facility, which was proven much better than French ESM transmission.

 

[HRK]

Alkhalid uses Ukrainian transmission with multiple reverse speed facility, which was proven much better than French ESM transmission.

they Changed it ....?? can you plz tell further details .....

 

[Dazzler]

they Changed it ....?? can you plz tell further details .....

ESM500 was only for the initial batch, all later batches have Ukrainian auto/ manual transmission. Read and note the powerpack section in Alkhalid brochures.

Now read the below, it's from the Oplot section.

REVERSIBLE (MULTIPLE REVERSE SPEED) TRANSMISSION

Reversible transmission is intended to increase the tank speed at forward motion and reverse movement. The enhanced gears of reverse movement provide when necessary quick change of position in combat conditions without tank turning.

Reversible transmission consists of two gear boxes with coaxially attached reversible final drives.

Gearboxes

Planetary, with friction gear engagement. Provide 7 forward gears and 1 reverse gear.

Reversible final drives

Reversible final drives consist of two planetary gear sets. Forward and reverse movement is engaged with tooth-type coupling..

Speeds at various gears:

Forward gears
Reverse gears
Number of gear
Speed (km/h)
Number of gear
1
8,4
Reverse 1
10,7
2
15,7
Reverse. 2
19,8
3
19,8
Reverse 3
25,0
4
24,8
Reverse 4
31,3
5
34,2


6
47,2
7
69,3
Reverse
4,8




Here it is, fitted on Alkhalid, T-84 and Oplots..

http://morozov.com.ua/eng/body/oplot_mbt.php

 

[UkroTurk]

According the Wikipedia
PropulsionEdit
The Leclerc has an eight-cylinder SACM (now Wärtsilä) V8X-1500 1,500 hp Hyperbar diesel engine .


Wärtsilä /ˈværtsilæ/ is a Finnish corporation which manufactures and services power sources and other equipment in the marine and energy markets. The core products of Wärtsilä include large combustion engines used in cruise ships and ferries. As of 2015 the company employed more than 18,000 workers in over 70 countries.
-----------------------------------------------------------
This company is from Finland. Wärtsilä based on Finland. Then the Leclerc hyperbar engine might be Fin origin.?

 

[Kutsanan]

Hmmm

http://defense-watch.com/2017/05/14/photos-french-amx-56-leclerc-with-140mm-main-gun-presented/

 

[Mr.Department]

Hmmm

http://defense-watch.com/2017/05/14/photos-french-amx-56-leclerc-with-140mm-main-gun-presented/

Leclerc was with 56 tons the lightest MBT in his class,
with this and other upgrades ( heavy ammo, armor , hard kill ) it could need new engines and transmission
cause it will exceed 60 tons. I don't know if the 8 cyl. Wärtila engine has enough tork ?

 

[Kutsanan]

Leclerc was with 56 tons the lightest MBT in his class,
with this and other upgrades ( heavy ammo, armor , hard kill ) it could need new engines and transmission
cause it will exceed 60 tons. I don't know if the 8 cyl. Wärtila engine has enough tork ?

i dont weight or engine. problem is can we hold on against 140mm gun with our 120mm? We are always talking about future but France working with 140mm and Germany working for 130mm. We have the latest MBT in the market but older gun. We need new gun. 130-140mm guns gonna beat Altay in every aspect.

 

[KediKesenFare3]

At the end of the day we have to take Korean technical assistance from Korea and DOSAN engine / transmission.

@Combat-Master
Is this true?

 

[Mr.Department]

i dont weight or engine. problem is can we hold on against 140mm gun with our 120mm? We are always talking about future but France working with 140mm and Germany working for 130mm. We have the latest MBT in the market but older gun. We need new gun. 130-140mm guns gonna beat Altay in every aspect.

140 mm next to 120 mm tank ammo

We would need an autoloeader to handle this, this means new design.

Of course 140 mm will most likely penetrate most arknown armor.

 

[-------]

@Combat-Master
Is this true?

S.Korean engine for Altay? I mean, we have almost everything from S.Korea on Altay, why not the engine too ?

 

[Mr.Department]

@Combat-Master
Is this true?

Combat Master said the truth. Ricardo and AVL are eliminated, Ukrainian engine too big only DOSAN leaves.
Or do you want to be blackmailed from german Gov. in future ?
Do you believe that an engineer team of 20 people can design a MBT from zero, thats the number of the OTOKAR engineers responsible for Altay.

The evolution of Altay

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/turkey-signs-deal-with-s-korea-for-altay-tank-project-05012/

 

[era_shield]

Do you believe that an engineer team of 20 people can design a MBT from zero, thats the number of the OTOKAR engineers responsible for Altay.

Stop spreading false information on this forum.

Kudret ONEN, Head of Koc Holding Defence Industry Group and Chairman of the Board of Otokar, shared the pleasure of introducing the first prototype of ALTAY to public. After reminding about the initial stages of the Project, ONEN also spoke of the future activities of ALTAY. “550 engineers are working in order to complete the Project, 260 of which are Otokar employees. Together with the ALTAY team, and nearly 100 subcontractors, we aim to make the best of our time and prepare ALTAY for mass production by 2015.”

Link

@cabatli_53 Hurshid is going back to his old ways spreading false info in multiple threads. Can you please do something about this.

 

[KediKesenFare3]

That's why I tagged @Combat-Master earlier today. Sometimes, I'm not sure whether he tells the truth or is just talking nonsense. Look into his postings in the Turkish Space Program thread, quite interesting things he wrote.

 

[Zarvan]

IDEF 2017: Otokar's Altay tank goes asymmetric

A new variant of the Turkish Altay Main Battle Tank has been displayed at IDEF 2017 for the first time.

It is an asymmetric version developed by Turkish vehicle manufacturer Otokar – called Altay AHT – to meet a changing mission requirement and which includes more protection and surveillance systems.

A spokesperson from the company told Shephard that the tank is 'the brother' of the standard Altay MBT that completed qualification in February 2017 and is awaiting a production contract from the Turkish procurement organisation, the SSM.

But he said there are some main differences on the AHT to allow the tank to conduct more high pressure urban operations. In particular he highlighted the explosive reactive armour added to the sides and the bar armour at the rear, and you can't miss the large dozer blade fitted to the front.

'This gives the AHT tank 360° armour protection,' the spokesperson said and also indicated the larger number of sensors on the turret that give the operators more situational awareness.

He said that the remote weapon station is installed further forward on the turret to give a better field of view at the front of the tank and that this also allows for an additional eight soft-kill Smart Smoke Curtain multispectral smoke grenade launchers on the turret itself.

Crews are able to respond faster to threats using several systems including: a gunshot acoustic shot detection system; a laser warning system to detect anti-tank missiles; laser range finders; mast-mounted Telescopic Elevated Observation System (EOS); and the YAMGÖZ 360° awareness system that contains a day TV and thermal camera.

The response time to employ a lethal weapon system is also increased with these systems as the guns can slew onto the location of the attacker automatically. It is also fitted with a jammer system for electronic protection.

Otokar made its 'best and final offer' (BAFO) to the SSM in August 2016 and the Turkish Army is expected to make an order for the first 250 Altay MBTs in the standard variant, but spokesperson said: 'The Turkish Army needs an asymmetric tank.' He added that Otokar has examined recent operations in the field and has developed the AHT model because the company sees a requirement for this kind of variant.

He said the fire control system, auxiliary systems and IFF are all the same, but the suspension is not. Altay has an in-arm suspension unit (ISU) whilst the AHT has a torsion bar suspension system which is easier to maintain but either system can be put on either version of the tank.

The company stated that: 'With asymmetric engagements that mostly transpire in residential areas increasing, Otokar has predicted that the modern armies 'need for suitably equipped battle tanks would also increase, and designed Altay-AHT Urban Operations Tank with a special team of 20 in as little as five months.'

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/landwarfareintl/idef-2017-otokars-altay-tank-goes-asymmetric/

 

[-------]

That's why I tagged @Combat-Master earlier today. Sometimes, I'm not sure whether he tells the truth or is just talking nonsense. Look into his postings in the Turkish Space Program thread, quite interesting things he wrote.

That was pure BS what he wrote there and @Bubblegum Crisis seems to be cut from the same cloth, god knows, probably the same guy..