Altay & Turkish Main Battle Tank Programs

[Ruhnama]

If kaplan using 120 mm it will increse sale of kaplan of course heheheh

We have the following options:

IFV

• Kaplan 20
• Kaplan 30
• Tulpar IFV
• Pars 6x6
• Pars 8x8

Light & Medium tank

• Kaplan MMWT
• Tulpar Light Tank

I hope we purchase some of these. I think the light tanks would be awesome for fire support when capturing cities. If we can install APS and good reactive armor then these would be great additions to our land forces.


In my opinion the entire Kaplan series should be purchased and used in conjunction with each other for urban environments.

Then the Altay should be used in conjunction with the Tulpar for open battlefields. This is how it was intended to be by the way. The Tulpar was supposed to accompany the Altay.

Imagine this working together with the Kaplan MMWT:

If turkey buy Kaplan and use it, so iy will increase of selling that fnss product world wide. Kaplan in 30 ton range maybe sufficient to use 120 mm

Instead why don't we put 120mm guns on the Otokar or FNSS 8x8 APCs like the Japanese Type-16 Mobile Combat Vehicles? FFS, I know that I2m not a general or anything but sometimes I don't get the KKK doctrines...

Type-16

Stryker Mobile Gun System

There are many other examples of it. Instead of producing thousands of Altays to replace old tanks, why don't we produce 250-300 Altays, modernize Leo 2A4s and M-60TMs and replace the rest of our old tanks with these?

Otokar Arma 8x8 APC has a version with the 105mm gun turret, why don't we make a turret with a 120mm gun?
Remember the battlefield is changing fast nowadays, many countries not only just put 105 or 120mm guns but they also put ATGMs on them.

Using 120 mm on 8x8 platform like italian Centauro II

 

[Saithan]

Kaplan mmwt 32-35 tons. Ppl are still talking about 120mm, and we’ve discussed this over and over.

So I’d like to ask those in favor of 120mm are you imagining the firepower is necessary against all armoured vehicles and we’ll just leave mbt out of this equation.

What’s there that a 105mm can’t penetrate. Except maybe mbt.

 

[UkroTurk]

Instead why don't we put 120mm guns on the Otokar or FNSS 8x8 APCs like the Japanese Type-16 Mobile Combat Vehicles? FFS, I know that I2m not a general or anything but sometimes I don't get the KKK doctrines...

Type-16

Stryker Mobile Gun System

There are many other examples of it. Instead of producing thousands of Altays to replace old tanks, why don't we produce 250-300 Altays, modernize Leo 2A4s and M-60TMs and replace the rest of our old tanks with these?

Otokar Arma 8x8 APC has a version with the 105mm gun turret, why don't we make a turret with a 120mm gun?
Remember the battlefield is changing fast nowadays, many countries not only just put 105 or 120mm guns but they also put ATGMs on them.

Japanese type 16 has 105 rifled gun.
Also we don't have any positive either negative information about B2 centauro .
For me B1 variant looks more balanced.
Turkish Army really knows its job. Those FSVs nearly as expensive as MBTs whereas modern armies use them for tactical reasons.

in addition Rifled gun is not good in combat. Because you should clean often and throughly. smoothbore gun of 120mm is easy to maintaince and haslonger lifetime.just 30 percent givesmore recoil.

 

[Bismarck]

As it seems that conventional wars are over, and proxy wars as we can see in M.E.are rinsing or shorter conflicts/wars followed by asymmetric and proxy wars. But it doesn’t mean a danger of a full out war is not given anymore. In this context NATO must be prepared for both scenarios so far as your budget allows it.

For you ~ 500 Altays and ~250 IFV and 250 light weight tanks should be a good mix.

 

[Timur]

As it seems that conventional wars are over, and proxy wars as we can see in M.E.are rinsing or shorter conflicts/wars followed by asymmetric and proxy wars. But it doesn’t mean a danger of a full out war is not given anymore. In this context NATO must be prepared for both scenarios so far as your budget allows it.

For you ~ 500 Altays and ~250 IFV and 250 light weight tanks should be a good mix.

I would opt also fore more infantry fighting vehicles with additional anti tank missiles variants with airbust and bushmaster alike cannon would be good

somehow I would like to add on many vehicles automatic 40mm granade lauchners it could be a personal fetish dont ask further


edit: lets say mostly I like our tulpar from otokar.. but we should also have a good share of fnss..

 

[Bismarck]

I would opt also fore more infantry fighting vehicles with additional anti tank missiles variants with airbust and bushmaster alike cannon would be good

somehow I would like to add on many vehicles automatic 40mm granade lauchners it could be a personal fetish dont ask further


edit: lets say mostly I like our tulpar from otokar.. but we should also have a good share of fnss..

BMC could produce Altay, Otakar could produce IFV while FNSS produce Kaplan.

 

[SİLAHDAR]

Current altay is a hopeless project I think.

Frenchs and Germans design a armata like tank named mgcs behalf of leopard 2a7's for 2030's but we are try to make a tank like leo 2a7 for 2030's.

Europan mgcs have a unmanned 130 mm L/51 turret with autoloader (who can be penetrate armata's front armour) , 3 crew , 1630 hp mtu engine etc.

İf you see new vehicle concept , front armour is very heavy and long. That means they locate 3 crew to front of the tank like armata.

-------------------------------------

So

As I say current altay is good designed but not up to date for his operational years.

Best solution for us, modernize all leopard 2a4's to 2a5 level with era + lwr+ rws+ pulat/akkor package and + sabra's to m-60tm Fırat for stopgap.

And buy a 1300 hp engine with tech transfer and licence of built from italy or britain or ukraine. And make a lighter unmanned 120mm l/55 turret with autoloader (we have on t-155 project) and locate 3 crew to chasis and use most of the armor on the chasis. With passive and active protection systems this new tanks will be gamechanger for us.

İn long period we can modernize design with national 1500-1800 hp engine and rheinmetall licenced 130 mm L-51 tank gun or new gun who co-r&d with britain.

 

[CAN_TR]

Yeah, they should redesign it... unmanned turret, better armored cabine for personel, separated ammo storeage, overall smaller tank silhouette and less weight.

 

[SİLAHDAR]

İf tank tonnage is decrase with help of unmanned and less armoured turret + autoloader and less crew, we can protect mobility goals of altay tank with 1300 hp class engine.

 

[Nutuk]

Does anyone know the status of the BMC Karasu factory where the Altay tank was supposed to be build?

The factory was planned to be finished by end of 2019 and start production begin 2020. Well we are almost mid 2020, where is the factory?

 

[cabatli_53]

Does anyone know the status of the BMC Karasu factory where the Altay tank was supposed to be build?

The factory was planned to be finished by end of 2019 and start production begin 2020. Well we are almost mid 2020, where is the factory?

https://www.sakaryayenihaber.com/bmc-fabrikasinin-tasinmasi-ne-demek-makale,13871.html

 

[AerospaceTech]

Does anyone know the status of the BMC Karasu factory where the Altay tank was supposed to be build?

The factory was planned to be finished by end of 2019 and start production begin 2020. Well we are almost mid 2020, where is the factory?

The factory has not been finished. But we have a major problem. Still, there is no engine for serial production.

 

[Agha Sher]

If I am not mistaken then the 3rd tranch of Altay tanks would have unmanned turrets. The Altay is a solid tank and will remain so long into the future.

Also, the talk about having a Kaplan with a 120mm cannon as a substitute for some Altay tanks is nonsense. When you send a tank into a battlefield with a 120mm cannon, then you also expect to take some hits from enemy 120mm cannons. If hit, Kaplan's armour will be pierced like butter and the crew will be killed with 100% guarantee.

That's why MBTs have 50+ tonnes of weight. It is the extra armour so that the tank has the chance of surviving a hit.

 

[mehmeTcc]

If I am not mistaken then the 3rd tranch of Altay tanks would have unmanned turrets. The Altay is a solid tank and will remain so long into the future.

Also, the talk about having a Kaplan with a 120mm cannon as a substitute for some Altay tanks is nonsense. When you send a tank into a battlefield with a 120mm cannon, then you also expect to take some hits from enemy 120mm cannons. If hit, Kaplan's armour will be pierced like butter and the crew will be killed with 100% guarantee.

That's why MBTs have 50+ tonnes of weight. It is the extra armour so that the tank has the chance of surviving a hit.

Honestly, I don't think we would ever see a third batch Altay's. The budget is tight and there are more important programs to procure. And in all fairness I think our tank filotilla is enough for now.

We desperately need new ships though.

 

[Yatağanlı]

Don't forget you guys, the current version is only the first batch of 250. It is planned already that newer batches will follow the technological trends.