Altay & Turkish Main Battle Tank Programs

[Kamil_baku]

According to the wideo, i will translate..
it starts,
This is the video tape of Turkish Altay tank test. Now, you see how Altay fire modern enemies. It hits 8 target out of 10 fire from 3 km away.(1 big lie, there is not even such information).
Now Altay fire on move, and the result is not much different, 7 hit our of 10 fires. Turkish engineers believe that, this is one of the best result in the world..
But, experts believe that, there is analog for Altay, which is in many ways stronger, Which is Leopard Tank. it can also fire while on move, but from 4 km away. it is 1 whole km more than what Altay can do.
But, there is another example, T 90, which is also can fire on move, but 2 km more than these tanks. during the test of T 90 tank, they fired 6 130mm anti tank missiles from 200 meters away to the front of the tank. But, it wasnt enough to stop the tank. then after the repair, they fired from rpg but the result was the same. thanks to its infrared(2 round red thing in front of the tank), it makes hard to target the tank.. But, both of Turkish and German tanks, miss this technology and they cant stop anti tank missiles.


guys, im tired already listening to this lie. But, most of the Russians really believe that its true about Turkish Altay..



then it talks about Cobra, says that it can swim. but Russian tiger is way stronger than that. even though it is 1 ton heavier, it can reach to 140 km/h. they applied new technology of armor. its the whole armor capsul unlike Cobra( Actually turkish cobra is also like that), and its is mine resistant which also make it superior(5:50 seconds, it looks like hand made small blast)

To be able to make mine resistant, Turkish engineers developed whole new concept, Ejder. They made V shape which takes the shock of mine away. But, AMerican striker is superior to Turkish ejder. it can stand agains higher mine blast. thats why Americans deployed many numbers of them to Iraq. but, they also had easy point, which is mostly used in battlefield, anti tank missiles.

 

[ptldM3]

To be honest, i dont believe it is going to be a good modern Tank. Todays Russia, is not capable to produce high end products.

Right, Russia can produce nuclear engines, rocket engines, turbo fan engines, AESA radar, active defense systems, entire aircraft, submarines, ect, ect, yet there is only a handful of countries capable of producing these things and somehow Russia is not capable of producing "high end products", i guess everything is a cardboard mockup. I sense jealousy.

All of their universities is corrupted and professors are 50-60+ years old. I dont really want to wrote more,

Somehow not only do you know classified information about the Armata and the Russian arms industry in general but you also happened to investigate every university in Russia for "corruption". For so much corruption in Russian universities they produced some of the best scientists and engineers in the world.

but as i visit Russia sometimes and have many relatives and friends live there, this is just another propaganda to gain public support. It will take forever to sell it to anywhere else!

How is the Armata, "propaganda to gain public support", support for what? And what does Armata sales have to do with anything? Russia can sell 0 or 1000, it makes no difference or barring on the tank's capabilities.

But, i would loveeee to see Altay in Russia, to participate in Tanks race. And try Armata there. Thats the only way to convince me with its specification on paper!!
Ill post a wideo here that Russian TV showed about Altay. But, everything they said was lie and even the tank they showed were korean k2!
Imagine how irresponsible they are..

My computer is not updated for video but i'm willing to bet you do not even understand what they are saying in the video and even if you do and the translation is correct, it means nothing. It's just a show. There may be ignorant Russians in that video but you are an ignorant Turk. What you are accusing the people in the video of is what you are doing in this forum.

 

[Kamil_baku]

Right, Russia can produce nuclear engines, rocket engines, turbo fan engines, AESA radar, active defense systems, entire aircraft, submarines, ect, ect, yet there is only a handful of countries capable of producing these things and somehow Russia is not capable of producing "high end products", i guess everything is a cardboard mockup. I sense jealousy.










Somehow not only do you know classified information about the Armata and the Russian arms industry in general but you also happened to investigate every university in Russia for "corruption". For so much corruption in Russian universities they produced some of the best scientists and engineers in the world.











How is the Armata, "propaganda to gain public support", support for what? And what does Armata sales have to do with anything? Russia can sell 0 or 1000, it makes no difference or barring on the tank's capabilities.








My computer is not updated for video but i'm willing to bet you do not even understand what they are saying in the video and even if you do and the translation is correct, it means nothing. It's just a show. There may be ignorant Russians in that video but you are an ignorant Turk. What you are accusing the people in the video of is what you are doing in this forum.

I can tell you one thing, all you Russians dont know how to discuss, and with this attitude, nobody can really reach anything. This is the reality about nations..
Most of those technologies, you got during SOviet Union, when you had tons of money to invest. But, after the Soviet Union, everything changed, even the mind of Russian people. If you produce AESA radar, why India purchase AESA from ISrael for its SU-30MKI? its easy to right down, but the the realities. Next decade Russia will lose most of its army technology sales.. if you will be around, we can discuss it in 4-5 years.
sorry guys for changing the topic..

 

[ptldM3]

I can tell you one thing, all you Russians dont know how to discuss, and with this attitude, nobody can really reach anything. This is the reality about nations..

I will debate you any time. Lets start with those claims you made.

Most of those technologies, you got during SOviet Union, when you had tons of money to invest. But, after the Soviet Union, everything changed,

What technologies? Russia did not have, for example, AESA radars during the soviet union. The Tigre, pak-fa, Borei, Armata, ect are all new designs that have no connection to the Soviet Union.

even the mind of Russian people. If you produce AESA radar, why India purchase AESA from ISrael for its SU-30MKI?

The MKI uses a Russian radar and its a PESA. You brag about debating but don't know what you are even talking about.

its easy to right down, but the the realities. Next decade Russia will lose most of its army technology sales.. if you will be around, we can discuss it in 4-5 years.
sorry guys for changing the topic..

Yet Russians arms sales are setting record breaking sales each year.

 

[Kamil_baku]

my bad, i mentioned this. But, PESA Is not AESA.. Once you target with PESA, enemy jets can see you.

 

[Babur Han]

@Kamil_baku

You can not speak russian Technology in all ways bad ! Before twelve Years Turkey had few less Defence Technologie thanks to Visionless politicans ! Now there are many Projects in Progress but they reach some Years to become able for serial Production ! Even after this time we need some Years to develop Engines and Transmission, what make the Export easier !

 

[Kamil_baku]

I will debate you any time. Lets start with those claims you made.








What technologies? Russia did not have, for example, AESA radars during the soviet union. The Tigre, pak-fa, Borei, Armata, ect are all new designs that have no connection to the Soviet Union.




Nonne of them has proved itself. Even Indians want to withdraw from PAKFA. i dont want to say, its bad, but if it were that good, they would let India to try it as they also share the development.




The MKI uses a Russian radar and its a PESA. You brag about debating but don't know what you are even talking about.







Yet Russians arms sales are setting record breaking sales each year.

i know, but mostly for t90 tanks and more than 250 jets to india. you have good potential to sell SUbmarine in the future. Also, your jets are good as other competitors offers hard deal. But, even Russian engine life is twice lower than those EUropeans. I am writing from phone now, when im back home, i will try to write in specific..

 

[ptldM3]

my bad, i mentioned this. But, PESA Is not AESA..

Thank you captain obvious for pointing out the obvious.

Once you target with PESA, enemy jets can see you.

Don't try to hide your mistakes by changing the subject. The less power aperture a radar puts out the more difficult it is to detect said radar. Jamming devices including ones built into radars also make it difficult to detect emitted radar signals. You want me do go into more details? I forgot, i'm Russian i can't debate.

 

[cabatli_53]

its a little different than your regular tank , unmanned turret and etc.
all of the crew is not positioned side by side at the front.

could be a great tank but it all comes down to the crew.

Nothing special Bro. As far as I understood It is the first time Russia has designed a tank which looks like modern and as heavier as Western equivalents. Most probably, The protection level will also be similar. A mini RCWS will also be stationed top of the turret for urban wars but Thermal detectors will be ordered abroad.

FSA plays blindman's buff with Russian tanks easily. When It is needed, They blow them as hell...

 

[Azeri440]

Nothing special Bro. As far as I understood It is the first time Russia has designed a tank which looks like modern and as heavier as Western equivalents. Most probably, The protection level will also be similar. A mini RCWS will also be stationed top of the turret for urban wars but Thermal detectors have already been ordered from abroad.

FSA plays blindman's buff with Russian tanks easily. When It is needed, They blow them as hell...

the first one you could say was T-90MS Tagil, the protection level is better due to complete separation of the crew from ammo. Are you sure about thermals? not a lot of details about the tank so far and haven't heard anything about the thermals.


Bro, those are old T-72As , even lacks the ERA blocks.
same would of happened if M60 was in its place , plus the incompetent crew is a pretty big addition
sitting in the same place , perfectly lined up and the enemy is just across the street.

To be honest, i dont believe it is going to be a good modern Tank. Todays Russia, is not capable to produce high end products. All of their universities is corrupted and professors are 50-60+ years old. I dont really want to wrote more, but as i visit Russia sometimes and have many relatives and friends live there, this is just another propaganda to gain public support. It will take forever to sell it to anywhere else!
But, i would loveeee to see Altay in Russia, to participate in Tanks race. And try Armata there. Thats the only way to convince me with its specification on paper!!
Ill post a wideo here that Russian TV showed about Altay. But, everything they said was lie and even the tank they showed were korean k2!
Imagine how irresponsible they are..

Armata and T-90MS are decent tanks , its still dependent how well trained the crew is
as for the tv show , its like that everywhere bro
they have no clue what they talk about 95% of the time.

 

[cabatli_53]

the first one you could say was T-90MS Tagil, the protection level is better due to complete separation of the crew from ammo. Are you sure about thermals? not a lot of details about the tank so far and haven't heard anything about the thermals.


Bro, those are old T-72As , even lacks the ERA blocks.
same would of happened if M60 was in its place , plus the incompetent crew is a pretty big addition
sitting in the same place , perfectly lined up and the enemy is just across the street.

Bro, Russian industry lacks serious thermal subsystem production capability (If they don't develop their own within last 1-2 years). Not only tanks, but also their attack helicopters, FLIRs use French thermals. As far as I know, Some Russian designed capable chips are also outsourced to Israel for production. Our Ruski friend can enlighten us more about them...

 

[Azeri440]

Bro, Russian industry lacks serious thermal subsystem production capability (If they don't develop their own within last 1-2 years). Not only tanks, but also their attack helicopters, FLIRs use French thermals. As far as I know, Some Russian designed capable chips are also outsourced to Israel for production.

True , but we'll just have to wait for more details to come up.
With recent events in Ukraine , they will have to invest more in such technology if they haven't already.

 

[ptldM3]

Nothing special Bro. As far as I understood It is the first time Russia has designed a tank which looks like modern and as heavier as Western equivalents. Most probably, The protection level will also be similar. A mini RCWS will also be stationed top of the turret for urban wars but Thermal detectors will be ordered abroad.

FSA plays blindman's buff with Russian tanks easily. When It is needed, They blow them as hell...

Those modern anti tank missiles will blow many tanks to "hell" even modern ones. There is also plenty of T-72s that survived being hit with rpgs or possibly anti tank missiles in Syria. In any case I'm not sure what old T-72s have anything to do with the Altay or why so many people hear keep talking about the armata as if they know anything about the tank.

 

[kaku1]

my bad, i mentioned this. But, PESA Is not AESA.. Once you target with PESA, enemy jets can see you.

Military doctrine bro. SU-30 MKI RCS is so much bigger that even if it dont fire still enemy would see you.

But war doesnt happen like this, it also about how aircraft support others.

Like, in other case, you think Indian T-90 go alone?, why the IA buying LCH for its armored brigade? T-90 always remain in cover of LCH.

 

[cabatli_53]

Those modern anti tank missiles will blow many tanks to "hell" even modern ones. There is also plenty of T-72s that survived being hit with rpgs or possibly anti tank missiles in Syria. In any case I'm not sure what old T-72s have anything to do with the Altay or why so many people hear keep talking about the armata as if they know anything about the tank.

That's why The countries develop active protection systems to be installed on special places of turret to provide 360 degree protection. If you ask me What makes a tank new generation, I tell you that It is the reaction time of active protection systems because All modern armours along with fire control systems provide more or less similar capabilities to each tank so If you consider the destiny of Armata to be same with Syrian T-72's seen on video, Then New appearance of Armata doesn't make any sense to me, until She reaches a capable protection systems against ATGM's.