Altay & Turkish Main Battle Tank Programs

[LegionnairE]

Otokar has been in the industry for how many years, 20? All they've accoplished in that time is to develop armour based on foreign chassis.

Cobra based on AM general HMMWV
Cobra II based on AM general JLTV

Otokar had 20~ years to invest in developing indigenous systems, but they held on to the profits and never truly invested in R&D.

Hopefully Otokar gets it's wake up call and starts investing heavily, otherwise they'll be pushed aside by Nurol, Tumosan, BMC and Katmerciler.

And what is Tulpar, Kaya and Kale are based on?

IIRC kirpi was based on an Israeli vehicle.

Tümosan should focus on making better tractors, their tractors suck, there's no way they can compete with european tractor companies. Katmerciler is interesting though, Wasn't hızır based on a Streit group APC? I might be mistaken correct me if that's the case.

 

[Bismarck]

It's difficult to place a finger on corruption. I believe there's good corruption and there's bad corruption. Good corruption, giving people who love their countries the oportunity to excel and protect their country. Bad corruption, giving people who hate their government the oportunity to devastate the country for their own interests and agendas.

Now BMC is one of the few companies that has taken the reign to develop engines, they've hired hundreds of people and some notable individuals for that specific role. I haven't seen any other company invest so much, not even Otosan-Ford.

Backed with $billions from Qatar, it could be possible.

And what is Tulpar, Kaya and Kale are based on?

IIRC kirpi was based on an Israeli vehicle.

Tümosan should focus on making better tractors, their tractors suck, there's no way they can compete with european tractor companies. Katmerciler is interesting though, Wasn't hızır based on a Streit group APC? I might be mistaken correct me if that's the case.

Maybe on Altay (Tulpar) based. Kaya has similarities with Dingo (German).

With that billions BMC is able to hire Otokar engineers as also foreign engineers with lot of experience.

 

[xenon54 out]

It's difficult to place a finger on corruption. I believe there's good corruption and there's bad corruption. Good corruption, giving people who love their countries the oportunity to excel and protect their country. Bad corruption, giving people who hate their government the oportunity to devastate the country for their own interests and agendas.

Now BMC is one of the few companies that has taken the reign to develop engines, they've hired hundreds of people and some notable individuals for that specific role. I haven't seen any other company invest so much, not even Otosan-Ford.

Theres no such thing as good corruption, for exsample, who is gonna work harder the one who has to earn his prize or the one who doesnt have to worry about getting prize since he is backed by a powerful buddy?

A situation like this is poisoning investment mood, why would anyone invest in something expensive and time consuming such as engine R&D when he knows other will be favoured in tenders anyways, he will stick to licence production without having to worry about wasting money.

 

[-------]

Theres no such thing as good corruption, for exsample, who is gonna work harder the one who has to earn his prize or the one who doesnt have to worry about getting prize since he is backed by a powerful buddy?

Ofcourse there's good corruption and bad corruption. You have talented company trying to break into the defence industry, they have excellent skills and talent but are stifled by defence lobbies. Good example is Baykar Makina, remember how the generals were not accepting their UAVs because they did not certify to NATO requirements, dispite all of American and Israeli UAVs also not qualifying to NATO requirements..

A situation like this is poisoning investment mood, why would anyone invest in something expensive and time consuming such as engine R&D when he knows other will be favoured in tenders anyways, he will stick to licence production without having to worry about wasting money.

Let's face it, Otokar was never in the mood to invest in R&D even when they were the favoured child. They had the market cornered and were sitting comfortably. Shit got real and now they are crying, as if they developed Altay all on their own. Investment has never been so high, we've got hand full of military vehicle producers. You know who's going to be favoured in the future, the company that produces most of the components of the vehicle in-house in Turkey.
Perhaps Otokar should start investing in BMC or Tumosan engines in the future, god knows they can't even get that Otosan-Ford engine into their military vehicles.

 

[xenon54 out]

Ofcourse there's good corruption and bad corruption. You have talented company trying to break into the defence industry, they have excellent skills and talent but are stifled by defence lobbies. Good example is Baykar Makina, remember how the generals were not accepting their UAVs because they did not certify to NATO requirements, dispite all of American and Israeli UAVs also not qualifying to NATO requirements..




Let's face it, Otokar was never in the mood to invest in R&D even when they were the favoured child. They had the market cornered and were sitting comfortably. Shit got real and now they are crying, as if they developed Altay all on their own. Investment has never been so high, we've got hand full of military vehicle producers. You know who's going to be favoured in the future, the company that produces most of the components of the vehicle in-house in Turkey.
Perhaps Otokar should start investing in BMC or Tumosan engines in the future, god knows they can't even get that Otosan-Ford engine into their military vehicles.

Problem isnt company X or company Y my problem is the corruption as said, it kills competition.

 

[Adıvar]

Otokar is a company with 100% Turkish capital that manufactured the first main battle tank Altay in Turkey. Accusing it of being unloyal to the country is a shame.

This is what it did:

 

[OguzSenturk]

Otosan and Otokar are two different companies. Otosan did not manufactured Altay

 

[Adıvar]

Otosan and Otokar are two different companies. Otosan did not manufactured Altay

Otosan ne yahu.. Typo olmuş..

 

[-------]

Problem isnt company X or company Y my problem is the corruption as said, it kills competition.

Yes well, like I said, there's good corruption and there's bad corruption. I see nothing bad with what's going on currently, hopefully Turkey will finally have strategic ability to equip her vehicles with Turkish made engines - embargo free.

Otosan and Otokar are two different companies. Otosan did not manufactured Altay

They are both part of the Koç group, wake up.

 

[OguzSenturk]

They are both part of the Koç group, wake up.

I never said the opposite? Adıvar wrote that "Otosan manufactured Altay", and i fixed him by telling they are different companies.

 

[-------]

I never said the opposite? Adıvar wrote that "Otosan manufactured Altay", and i fixed him by telling they are different companies.

My bad, I have Adivar on my ignore list didn't see his comment

 

[Bismarck]

Otokar is a company with 100% Turkish capital that manufactured the first main battle tank Altay in Turkey. Accusing it of being unloyal to the country is a shame.

This is what it did:

I don’t think Otokar is unloyal, not not to AKP. In my opinion, Erdogan risks security of Turkey and Turks with that (friend/foe) behavior.

 

[xenon54 out]

Yes well, like I said, there's good corruption and there's bad corruption. I see nothing bad with what's going on currently, hopefully Turkey will finally have strategic ability to equip her vehicles with Turkish made engines - embargo free.

TBH honest i see a potential quality lack on Altay, i hope im wrong.

 

[LegionnairE]

I think Otokar should make their own MBT now, and Beat ALTAY in foreign export market like a big fvck you to Qataris.

 

[-------]

TBH honest i see a potential quality lack on Altay, i hope im wrong.

How so and in what way ?

I think Otokar should make their own MBT now, and Beat ALTAY in foreign export market like a big fvck you to Qataris.

They tottally could.
Engine from X country
Armour from X country
Tracks from X country
E/O from X country

Could be best Tank in the world who knows!