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ALL Xinjiang related issues e.g. uyghur people, development, videos etc, In here please.

An Independent East Turkestan will be bad for Pakistan

  • Yes

    Votes: 64 53.8%
  • No

    Votes: 55 46.2%

  • Total voters
    119
:omghaha:
Indonesia: China, please clarify what you're doing in Xinjiang.
China: F*ck off.
Indonesia: Thank you for the clarification.
Pakistan: China, please dont clarify what you're doing in Xinjiang
China: f*ck off.
Pakistan: Thank you for clarification
My respect for Indonesia grows day by day.Hope to see it claim a leadership position of the Muslim world in the future.
I agree. Indonesia has shown it isnt AS afraid of China as other countries.
 
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Pakistan: China, please dont clarify what you're doing in Xinjiang
China: f*ck off.
Pakistan: Thank you for clarification

I agree. Indonesia has shown it isnt AS afraid of China as other countries.

China is not West. It is easier to work with West because, they beleive in democratic set up. China and their rise has been routed througn different means. So they beleive, they do not owe any one for their rise. That makes them feel superior to any one they interact or they have relation.
If i am not wrong, Indonesia has a foreign policy doctine where they do not intervene in any one's internal affair. That is the reason for which they hardly comment on anything that does not impact them directly.
 
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You raise an interesting topic.. Bangladesh recently buys Chinese VT-5 tank instead of Turkish Kaplan.

https://www.defseca.com/procurements/bangladesh-army-becomes-launch-customer-for-vt5-light-tank/

Chinese VT-5 use domestic engine vs Kaplan using American caterpillar engine. I am sure Bangladesh is concern about Turkish tank is not sanction proof.

@ZeEa5KPul

Turkey is developing indigenous engines for all but the 5th gen fighter and so US sanctions will be gone soon.
 
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Your arrogance is only tolerated in this forum because you are Chines.
At the end of the day, Pakistanis aren't stupid. They know how their bread is buttered. They can shout their slogans about the ummah and #BoycottChina and all the rest of the BS, but they know full well that without China they're just going to be a part of Akhand Bharat. They can feel however they want to feel about China, they know that without it their future is a very bleak one indeed.

Yeh, it is very ironic the way China and relationship of muslim world works.
Jealous? Don't you wish you had this kind of power? Yeah, you're jealous. Don't feel to bad, superpower 2020 2030 after all, right? Jai Hind.

You raise an interesting topic.. Bangladesh recently buys Chinese VT-5 tank instead of Turkish Kaplan.

https://www.defseca.com/procurements/bangladesh-army-becomes-launch-customer-for-vt5-light-tank/

Chinese VT-5 use domestic engine vs Kaplan using American caterpillar engine. I am sure Bangladesh is concern about Turkish tank is not sanction proof.
Oh, ho, ho! @UKBengali buddy, are you seeing this? You not only passed up Muslim helicopters for Crusader ones - at least those were ′Ahl al-Kitāb - you went and bought tanks from godless Communists!:o: You're going to need some strong tawbah for that, friend.
 
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I agree. Indonesia has shown it isnt AS afraid of China as other countries.

Folly moments. What Indonesia did please nobody besides harming themselves only. Indonesian is a secular country. I believe what Indonesia did is mere symbolic. Question raise, answer given. Satisfy with answer and no further inquiry...

Hope Indonesia shall settle their own domestic problem first.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/10/07/indonesia-investigate-riot-deaths-papua

(Jakarta) – Indonesian authorities should independently investigate recent riots in Wamena, Papua that resulted in 33 deaths, Human Rights Watch said today. Since September 29, 2019, at least 8,000 indigenous Papuan and other Indonesians have been displaced from their homes in Papua.

The National Commission on Human Rights (Komnas Ham) should lead an investigation into the deaths and review the government’s policing policy. The Indonesian government should also immediately allow the United Nations human rights office unfettered access to Papua and West Papua provinces to investigate the situation.

“At least 33 people died during riots in Wamena in unclear circumstances,” said Brad Adams, Asia director at Human Rights Watch. “An independent investigation is needed to examine the role of the security forces and to prosecute anyone responsible for wrongdoing.”

Human Rights Watch spoke with two well-informed government officials and three indigenous Papuan men who had been detained briefly by the Wamena police.

In August, Papuans took part in protests across at least 30 cities in Indonesia that were preceded by an attack by Indonesian militants on a West Papuan student dorm in Surabaya on August 17.

The protests turned to pro-independence rallies, some of which became deadly. At least 10 men, including an Indonesian soldier, were killed in August in Deiyai and Jayapura in Papua.

In Jayapura, Indonesian settlers, mostly ethnic Makassar, set up checkpoints and attacked indigenous Papuans with clubs and machetes. On September 1, a group of settlers attacked a student dorm in Jayapura, most of whose residents were from Wamena, killing one student and seriously wounding two others. The incident raised tensions between the two different racial groups.

On September 18, a new teacher allegedly made racist taunts at Papuan students at a public high school in Wamena.

On September 23, Wamena students protesting outside the Jayawijaya regent office were joined by a larger crowd that burned the office. Violence escalated. Many shops, mostly owned by Indonesians from other islands, burned down. Many of those killed were found trapped inside their burned houses. The burning and some killings continued on September 24.

The government shut down the internet from September 23 to 29 in the vicinity of Wamena. The police listed the names and origins of the 33 people who died. They included 8 Papuans, including 2 children, and 25 people from elsewhere in Indonesia, including 3 children.

On September 27, Indonesia’s National Police chief replaced the Papua police chief, Rudolf Alberth Rodja, a non-Papuan, with Paulus Waterpauw, an ethnic Papuan who had been the Papua police chief from 2015 to 2017.

In Wamena, the main city in the area, the riots caused thousands of Papuan and non-Papuan residents to flee the city amid the deterioration of security and rumors of an increased Indonesian military deployment, ostensibly to prevent further violence.

More than 5,000 residents, both Papuans and non-Papuans, have sought safety in several refuge points in Jayawijaya regency, including the police station and two military posts. Some are staying in churches. An Air Force officer said 2,000 evacuees had reported to the military to leave Wamena on a Hercules transport plane.

Last December, Papuan militants killed 17 Indonesian workers in Nduga, near Wamena. It prompted the Indonesian military and police to initiate a security operation, displacing thousands of indigenous Papuans. Thousands of them are still seeking refuge in Wamena and Jayapura.

News about the recent deaths of non-Papuans in Wamena has angered many Muslims in Sumatra, Sulawesi, and Java. The Islamic Defenders Front, one of the largest Muslim militias in Java, had started to call on Muslims for “jihad” against predominantly Christian Papuans in the two provinces.

Human Rights Watch has long documented human rights abuses in Papua’s central highlands, where the military and police have frequently engaged in deadly confrontations with armed groups.

Indonesian security forces have often committed abuses against the Papuan population, including arbitrary detention and torture. A lack of internal accountability within the security forces and a poorly functioning justice system mean that impunity for rights violators is the norm in Papua. The failure to appropriately punish serious abuses by Indonesian security forces has fueled resentment among Papuans.

The Indonesian security forces should exercise care when operating in Wamena, directing all security personnel to treat residents in accordance with international standards. They should transparently investigate and hold accountable anyone implicated in a criminal offense. Both the military and the police should allow journalists to operate independently in the area. The government should lift the decades-long official restriction on foreign media access to Papua.

“The situation in Wamena is tense, yet it’s difficult to verify the circumstances because no journalists can independently go into the area to interview witnesses,” Adams said. “Having independent monitors on the ground will help deter abuses by both the militants and security forces, which would benefit all Indonesians.”

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What Indonesia did against China, will Australia, US and UK come and thank you? Will just these countries continue to meddle in West Papua issue? Yes, they will...

Indonesia raising the issue against China will just equally raise the profile of its own domestic problem too. You cannot use double standard to judge something. You loses credibility.
 
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@ZeEk5KPul

Turkey is developing indigenous engines for all but the 5th gen fighter and so US sanctions will be gone soon.

Turkey is a smart nation. They use the narrative based on their benefits. They use secularism to befriend of Nato and West, and Islamist card to club all the Muslim nations who are looking for leaders. It is not the fault of Turkey that they are smart rather it is the mistake of nations who do not calibrate their foreign strategy based on realism.

See the hypocrisy of BD and Pakistan. In the time of crisis for Pakistan, there are only 3 people who stood up with IK. One is Gulf nation, IMF and China. Where was Turkey at that crucial juncture for Pakistan? And again, Turkey is quite a rich country too. They could have easily afforded to invest and provide loans with less restricted terms to Pakistan. Who stopped them to provide a helping hand to Pakistan?
 
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Ya right! 2050, the engine development will be complete and ready for operation..

I heard Somalia is also talking about develop high end military turbofan and I know talk is cheap. :enjoy:

Not 5th gen fighter engine but for tanks and helicopters by around 2025.
 
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At the end of the day, Pakistanis aren't stupid. They know how their bread is buttered. They can shout their slogans about the ummah and #BoycottChina and all the rest of the BS, but they know full well that without China they're just going to be a part of Akhand Bharat. They can feel however they want to feel about China, they know that without it their future is a very bleak one indeed.


Jealous? Don't you wish you had this kind of power? Yeah, you're jealous. Don't feel to bad, superpower 2020 2030 after all, right? Jai Hind.


Oh, ho, ho! @UKBengali buddy, are you seeing this? You not only passed up Muslim helicopters for Crusader ones - at least those were ′Ahl al-Kitāb - you went and bought tanks from godless Communists!:o: You're going to need some strong tawbah for that, friend.

@Starlord @Indus Pakistan ....At least, we, as an enemy fairs better in this respect while discussing about your issue.s
 
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Folly moments. What Indonesia did please nobody besides harming themselves only. Indonesian is a secular country. I believe what Indonesia did is mere symbolic. Question raise, answer given. Satisfy with answer and no further inquiry...

Hope Indonesia shall settle their own domestic problem first.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/10/07/indonesia-investigate-riot-deaths-papua

(Jakarta) – Indonesian authorities should independently investigate recent riots in Wamena, Papua that resulted in 33 deaths, Human Rights Watch said today. Since September 29, 2019, at least 8,000 indigenous Papuan and other Indonesians have been displaced from their homes in Papua.

The National Commission on Human Rights (Komnas Ham) should lead an investigation into the deaths and review the government’s policing policy. The Indonesian government should also immediately allow the United Nations human rights office unfettered access to Papua and West Papua provinces to investigate the situation.

“At least 33 people died during riots in Wamena in unclear circumstances,” said Brad Adams, Asia director at Human Rights Watch. “An independent investigation is needed to examine the role of the security forces and to prosecute anyone responsible for wrongdoing.”

Human Rights Watch spoke with two well-informed government officials and three indigenous Papuan men who had been detained briefly by the Wamena police.

In August, Papuans took part in protests across at least 30 cities in Indonesia that were preceded by an attack by Indonesian militants on a West Papuan student dorm in Surabaya on August 17.

The protests turned to pro-independence rallies, some of which became deadly. At least 10 men, including an Indonesian soldier, were killed in August in Deiyai and Jayapura in Papua.

In Jayapura, Indonesian settlers, mostly ethnic Makassar, set up checkpoints and attacked indigenous Papuans with clubs and machetes. On September 1, a group of settlers attacked a student dorm in Jayapura, most of whose residents were from Wamena, killing one student and seriously wounding two others. The incident raised tensions between the two different racial groups.

On September 18, a new teacher allegedly made racist taunts at Papuan students at a public high school in Wamena.

On September 23, Wamena students protesting outside the Jayawijaya regent office were joined by a larger crowd that burned the office. Violence escalated. Many shops, mostly owned by Indonesians from other islands, burned down. Many of those killed were found trapped inside their burned houses. The burning and some killings continued on September 24.

The government shut down the internet from September 23 to 29 in the vicinity of Wamena. The police listed the names and origins of the 33 people who died. They included 8 Papuans, including 2 children, and 25 people from elsewhere in Indonesia, including 3 children.

On September 27, Indonesia’s National Police chief replaced the Papua police chief, Rudolf Alberth Rodja, a non-Papuan, with Paulus Waterpauw, an ethnic Papuan who had been the Papua police chief from 2015 to 2017.

In Wamena, the main city in the area, the riots caused thousands of Papuan and non-Papuan residents to flee the city amid the deterioration of security and rumors of an increased Indonesian military deployment, ostensibly to prevent further violence.

More than 5,000 residents, both Papuans and non-Papuans, have sought safety in several refuge points in Jayawijaya regency, including the police station and two military posts. Some are staying in churches. An Air Force officer said 2,000 evacuees had reported to the military to leave Wamena on a Hercules transport plane.

Last December, Papuan militants killed 17 Indonesian workers in Nduga, near Wamena. It prompted the Indonesian military and police to initiate a security operation, displacing thousands of indigenous Papuans. Thousands of them are still seeking refuge in Wamena and Jayapura.

News about the recent deaths of non-Papuans in Wamena has angered many Muslims in Sumatra, Sulawesi, and Java. The Islamic Defenders Front, one of the largest Muslim militias in Java, had started to call on Muslims for “jihad” against predominantly Christian Papuans in the two provinces.

Human Rights Watch has long documented human rights abuses in Papua’s central highlands, where the military and police have frequently engaged in deadly confrontations with armed groups.

Indonesian security forces have often committed abuses against the Papuan population, including arbitrary detention and torture. A lack of internal accountability within the security forces and a poorly functioning justice system mean that impunity for rights violators is the norm in Papua. The failure to appropriately punish serious abuses by Indonesian security forces has fueled resentment among Papuans.

The Indonesian security forces should exercise care when operating in Wamena, directing all security personnel to treat residents in accordance with international standards. They should transparently investigate and hold accountable anyone implicated in a criminal offense. Both the military and the police should allow journalists to operate independently in the area. The government should lift the decades-long official restriction on foreign media access to Papua.

“The situation in Wamena is tense, yet it’s difficult to verify the circumstances because no journalists can independently go into the area to interview witnesses,” Adams said. “Having independent monitors on the ground will help deter abuses by both the militants and security forces, which would benefit all Indonesians.”

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What Indonesia did against China, will Australia, US and UK come and thank you? Will just these countries continue to meddle in West Papua issue? Yes, they will...

Indonesia raising the issue against China will just equally raise the profile of its own domestic problem too. You cannot use double standard to judge something. You loses credibility.
talking about Indonesia's own problems is a fallacy to distract from CHina's problems. AS of now, we are focused on the Uighurs your country is abusing, so pls dont use "2 wrongs make a right" logic because its faulty. You didnt disagree with my point that Indonesia isnt as afraid of China, so i think u agree with me on that. cheers.
 
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Not 5th gen fighter engine but for tanks and helicopters by around 2025.
You are naive to think they can meet that deadline. As I say talk is cheap. From Turkiish tanks to warship. Most of the component are sourced and now we are talking about high end engine which takes USD20 billion investment, a country level of industrial level with highest level of engineering and metallurgy plus a whole level of testing facilities and you naively believe Turkey can meet the deadline? Besides produced small cruise missile engine. Have they even a decent engine produced of 800kw for helo ever commercialize?

talking about Indonesia's own problems is a fallacy to distract from CHina's problems. AS of now, we are focused on the Uighurs your country is abusing, so pls dont use "2 wrongs make a right" logic because its faulty. You didnt disagree with my point that Indonesia isnt as afraid of China, so i think u agree with me on that. cheers.
Tell me, how can a rapist try tell others about protecting womans right and non-violent?

Care to share? What makes the rapist qualify to educate on others?
Indonesian action just makes them looks like hypocrite. Dont you think so?
 
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You are naive to think they can meet that deadline. As I say talk is cheap. From Turkiish tanks to warship. Most of the component are sourced and now we are talking about high end engine which takes USD20 billion investment, a country level of industrial level with highest level of engineering and metallurgy plus a whole level of testing facilities and you naively believe Turkey can meet the deadline? Besides produced small cruise missile engine. Have they even a decent engine produced of 800kw for helo ever commercialize?

Turkey is a developed country.

They can make those engines within 5 years.

Only 5th gen Turbofan is out of their reach for now.
 
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Turkey is a developed country.

They can make those engines within 5 years.

Only 5th gen Turbofan is out of their reach for now.

Turkey is only a middle class income country. No where near developed. You have no evidence to back you claim and non are you able to answer of my previous inquiry. Prove it rather than just say they can and you think you can get away with it?
 
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Turkey is a developed country.

They can make those engines within 5 years.

Only 5th gen Turbofan is out of their reach for now.
Since you're so enamoured with Turkey and you think they're so developed and advanced and all that stuff, you should be able to answer this simple question: how many nanometers? How small can Turkey make its chips with its indigenous technology? I'll give you the answer for China: 14nm in volume production, 12nm in risk production. It can design chips smaller than that, but that's what it can make for itself. How many nanometers for Turkey?
 
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Turkey is only a middle class income country. No where near developed. You have no evidence to back you claim and non are you able to answer of my previous inquiry. Prove it rather than just say they can and you think you can get away with it?

30'000 US dollar per capita PPP is developed.
A developed country of 80 million people has the industrial technology to make tank and helicopter engines.
Hey even Japan has fifth gen fighter prototype engine now ready and they came from just 50kn engine.
 
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