All U.S. warships in Persian Gulf in range of Iran’s missiles: General

[Vassnti]

It'll take a volley of at least 16-24 missiles to saturate the battle group defences and get 1-4 missiles through the combined anti-ballistic defence of the battle group... and I doubt 1-4 missiles will sink a carrier... perhaps cause casualties enough to horrify some americans ...but sink a nimitz class carrier ?? Nope... no chance..

AWS, the heart of Aegis, comprises the AN/SPY-1 Radar, MK 99 Fire Control System, WCS, the Command and Decision Suite, and SM-2 Standard Missile systems. The Aegis Combat System is controlled by an advanced, automatic detect-and-track, multi-function three-dimensional passive electronically scanned array radar, the AN/SPY-1. Known as "the Shield of the Fleet", the SPY high-powered (6 megawatt) radar is able to perform search, tracking, and missile guidance functions simultaneously with a track capacity of well over 100 targets at more than 100 nautical miles (190 km).[2]

Try a few more, remember the carrier groups were set up to take on well train bomber crews flying Blackjacks not out of practice pilots flying a few f-14's with poor maintenance.

You want a serious chance of getting through the defences, try 100+ you want to actually take out the carrier rather than just a picket your going to need a large well coordinated strike and a lota luck.

After which you should bend over and kiss your *** good bye because the US isnt going to play nice after some one takes out a carrier with 5000 men onboard.

 

[amalakas]

Try a few more, remember the carrier groups were set up to take on well train bomber crews flying Blackjacks not out of practice pilots flying a few f-14's with poor maintenance.

You want a serious chance of getting through the defences, try 100+ you want to actually take out the carrier rather than just a picket your going to need a large well coordinated strike and a lota luck.

After which you should bend over and kiss your *** good bye because the US isnt going to play nice after some one takes out a carrier with 5000 men onboard.

Nope, around 20 missiles will do the trick, out of 20 odd, about 1-4 will get through.. but 4 anti-ship missiles won't do squat on a carrier...
unless you are lucky and ignite a fuel line or hit some munition below deck, but I doubt it ...

Also there is the question of targeting the right ship !! you may not want to target that cruiser after all...depends on what kind of missile you got...

 

[amalakas]

This subject have been discussed before. Keywords search for you: USS Ranger + EMCON Alpha

If you have never experienced EMCON Alpha before, there are no descriptions for it.

Have no idea how you people play around between yourselves in exercises or what kind of techniques you believe work..

I don't even wanna go there, because according what you are implying here, no ship at sea can be found, unless searched for by the US ?? am I right ?

that battle group in the med was sim-attacked in 30' flat.... and it may not have been anything that matters to you, but we thought we did quite well.. and you won't even begin to believe how our boys found it ...

 

[zagahaga]

no it will take 100+ cruise missels to do the job and no US canot do nuclear strikes on iran, plus iran said clearly if we are attacked first THEN we will attack or else nothing , so dont attack pandora

 

[gambit]

Have no idea how you people play around between yourselves in exercises or what kind of techniques you believe work..

I don't even wanna go there, because according what you are implying here, no ship at sea can be found, unless searched for by the US ?? am I right ?

that battle group in the med was sim-attacked in 30' flat.... and it may not have been anything that matters to you, but we thought we did quite well.. and you won't even begin to believe how our boys found it ...

Nothing like that at all. What am saying, not implying, is that a ship, even an aircraft carrier, is a speck in the vastness of the world's oceans, especially the two major ones: Atlantic and Pacific. To find any ship, be it an aircraft carrier or a pleasure liner, you need its assistance. That assistance can be intentional or unintentional and made it a 'cooperative' target.

EMCON Keeps Ships Out of Sight

Hawk, like all ships, puts out electro-magnetic signals, from equipment that is being operated, which translates into information for possible enemies. EMCON limits the amount of information that gets out, explained Brooks.

The first EMCON condition is EMCON alpha. "Alpha is what we use to disappear," explained Brooks. "Like a cloaking device."

Unmonitored and uncontrolled EM emissions made a ship a 'cooperative' target. The goal then is to seek out any EM emissions and attempt to change its status from unmonitored and uncontrolled to monitored and controlled. The degree of both depends on how determined is the human agency that occupies these vessels. The Med is nowhere as vast as the Atlantic and Pacific. EMCON tactics can be greatly enhanced by having the maneuvering room flexibility and the Atlantic and the Pacific oceans offers that.

 

[Vassnti]

Nope, around 20 missiles will do the trick, out of 20 odd, about 1-4 will get through.. but 4 anti-ship missiles won't do squat on a carrier...
unless you are lucky and ignite a fuel line or hit some munition below deck, but I doubt it ...

Also there is the question of targeting the right ship !! you may not want to target that cruiser after all...depends on what kind of missile you got...

I assume you are talking about Noor missiles for any where near that sucess rate. Asuming the numbers shipped as between 60 and 100, problems with parts and maintenece say 45- 80 would actually be capable of launch.
Scatter them about and remove those on Qeshm Island from the count allow for the 200k range and you have to have some one tapdancing like a centipede to get the rest in the one area for a coordinated launch at the right time to catch a carrier group.

20 would be my best guess as to all Iran could resonably launch, assume the yanks would be very interested in satelite images of such activity and would be at a resonable alert and have a Hawkeye watching the area.

Perhaps one might get through and hit some thing but i very much doubt it would be the carrier, even if it does it will slow but not sink it.

The result still two carrier groups, probably still capable of returning the favor and the gps coordinates of every square foot or Iran that has any thing to do with the republican guard on file.

All this assumes an Iranian first strike if the US was weapons free any thing that looked vaugely like a Noor laucher would probably get 10feet out of its garage before a drone would put a helfire up its tail pipe.

Haider did a good summary of the weapons available in 2008

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-forum/10056-iran-navy-2007-detail-info.html

 

[amalakas]

I assume you are talking about Noor missiles for any where near that sucess rate. Asuming the numbers shipped as between 60 and 100, problems with parts and maintenece say 45- 80 would actually be capable of launch.
Scatter them about and remove those on Qeshm Island from the count allow for the 200k range and you have to have some one tapdancing like a centipede to get the rest in the one area for a coordinated launch at the right time to catch a carrier group.

20 would be my best guess as to all Iran could resonably launch, assume the yanks would be very interested in satelite images of such activity and would be at a resonable alert and have a Hawkeye watching the area.

Perhaps one might get through and hit some thing but i very much doubt it would be the carrier, even if it does it will slow but not sink it.

The result still two carrier groups, probably still capable of returning the favor and the gps coordinates of every square foot or Iran that has any thing to do with the republican guard on file.

All this assumes an Iranian first strike if the US was weapons free any thing that looked vaugely like a Noor laucher would probably get 10feet out of its garage before a drone would put a helfire up its tail pipe.

Haider did a good summary of the weapons available in 2008

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-forum/10056-iran-navy-2007-detail-info.html

I pretty much agree... . Personaly I think the chances of Iran finding itself in a position to even manage to target 20 odd missiles at a Carrier battle group are 1 in a million.

In any case the repraisals will be devastating...

 

[softtec]

Nope, around 20 missiles will do the trick, out of 20 odd, about 1-4 will get through.. but 4 anti-ship missiles won't do squat on a carrier...
unless you are lucky and ignite a fuel line or hit some munition below deck, but I doubt it ...

Also there is the question of targeting the right ship !! you may not want to target that cruiser after all...depends on what kind of missile you got...

I don't think so. Suppose at a same time u thrown 20 missile together. US radars will be detecting them immediately or from a long range. A career group having suppose 6 big ships a task of handling 3-4 each.Having all the long range SAM,its not a big deal for US.

 

[!!craft!!]

Nope, around 20 missiles will do the trick, out of 20 odd, about 1-4 will get through.. but 4 anti-ship missiles won't do squat on a carrier...
unless you are lucky and ignite a fuel line or hit some munition below deck, but I doubt it ...

Also there is the question of targeting the right ship !! you may not want to target that cruiser after all...depends on what kind of missile you got...

you reaaly like play RTS games dont you...

 

[Spring Onion]

As if Iran can dare to fire at them

 

[amalakas]

I don't think so. Suppose at a same time u thrown 20 missile together. US radars will be detecting them immediately or from a long range. A career group having suppose 6 big ships a task of handling 3-4 each.Having all the long range SAM,its not a big deal for US.

Decent Anti ship missiles will fly variable path towards the target and will have at least a "saturation" mode.. i.e. arrive at the target at the same time from different angles and directions.

Theoreticaly, the missiles will not be picked up early on, but relatively close to the battle group..

their arrival on target from different angles and directions will mean that the CISW or RAM systems of the ships and the carrier will be faced with quick switching from target to target, and some of the missiles will inevitably be outside the arc of coverage of some of the ships and will slip through... Now US ships fire the Standard missiles, but these are excellent anti air missiles with anti-ballistic characteristics , not full close in protection system.

It's not about RTS games.. I am afraid i don't play games... it's about logic.

 

[softtec]

Decent Anti ship missiles will fly variable path towards the target and will have at least a "saturation" mode.. i.e. arrive at the target at the same time from different angles and directions.

Theoreticaly, the missiles will not be picked up early on, but relatively close to the battle group..

their arrival on target from different angles and directions will mean that the CISW or RAM systems of the ships and the carrier will be faced with quick switching from target to target, and some of the missiles will inevitably be outside the arc of coverage of some of the ships and will slip through... Now US ships fire the Standard missiles, but these are excellent anti air missiles with anti-ballistic characteristics , not full close in protection system.

It's not about RTS games.. I am afraid i don't play games... it's about logic.

Sir think little more basic things..Do u think these SAMs on ships have been developed for surface missiles?When they have tested, they tested with US missiles.Now the question is if IRAN has equal/better missile than US!! If not so, then just think how many SAM holes r there in a ship, think how many powerful radars(whats their ranges) constantly monitoring missile paths, think whats the range of US SAMs, how effective they were when tested(should be some successful tests..right?) with advance US missiles, think how many SAM they can use for each super duper Iranian anti ship missile.And U r talking about some country, who has the real situation awareness, miles miles ahead any other country u think of.

 

[amalakas]

Sir think little more basic things..Do u think these SAMs on ships have been developed for surface missiles?When they have tested, they tested with US missiles.Now the question is if IRAN has equal/better missile than US!! If not so, then just think how many SAM holes r there in a ship, think how many powerful radars(whats their ranges) constantly monitoring missile paths, think whats the range of US SAMs, how effective they were when tested(should be some successful tests..right?) with advance US missiles, think how many SAM they can use for each super duper Iranian anti ship missile.And U r talking about some country, who has the real situation awareness, miles miles ahead any other country u think of.

I don't know how the US tests their systems, basicaly the CISW and RAM systems are very good, with very high success rates. There is nothing secret about them, they are widely spread and everyone who builds a ship can buy some version of these systems.

These systems however are placed on ships in certain positions trying to maximize coverage, which is not always possible pending on the superstructure configuration of the ship... for example, on a Frigate or Destroyer size ship it is not uncommon to only have only 2 or even 1 of those systems. in a Saturation mode, a supersonic missile, (i.e. you see a dot in the horizon, you blink and the dot has already passed you), will be coming at you from from left low, left high, straight from the top, rear top, right low front low center medium.. right high... the systems will be saturated and by the time they turn around to hit all targets, one might get through !!! now if you are on a Frigate.. you are screwed.. an exocet size missile will cut a Frigate/Destroyer in half.. if you are on a Carrier, you are luckier.. even if you fire 100 exocet class missiles at a carrier, I doubt she'll go down..
casualties is a different matter...

 

[softtec]

I don't know how the US tests their systems, basicaly the CISW and RAM systems are very good, with very high success rates. There is nothing secret about them, they are widely spread and everyone who builds a ship can buy some version of these systems.

These systems however are placed on ships in certain positions trying to maximize coverage, which is not always possible pending on the superstructure configuration of the ship... for example, on a Frigate or Destroyer size ship it is not uncommon to only have only 2 or even 1 of those systems. in a Saturation mode, a supersonic missile, (i.e. you see a dot in the horizon, you blink and the dot has already passed you), will be coming at you from from left low, left high, straight from the top, rear top, right low front low center medium.. right high... the systems will be saturated and by the time they turn around to hit all targets, one might get through !!! now if you are on a Frigate.. you are screwed.. an exocet size missile will cut a Frigate/Destroyer in half.. if you are on a Carrier, you are luckier.. even if you fire 100 exocet class missiles at a carrier, I doubt she'll go down..
casualties is a different matter...

U totally avoided my answer.I was talking about SAMs, surface to air missiles.And I feel they have quite good range of engagement.If one misses also u can throw another or two for a single incoming missile.And the saturation of the system depends on which system u r talking about.US deploys the best, far advance than others.When u have suppose 30+ or 50+ SAM holes, they r not for show, means they can utilize them also. And its just a single system. In a career group u have to engage 6-7 like this big ships together.Thats why career group is so secure. There 20 Iranian missiles r nothing.

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

Here are some of the defensive systems on todays aircraft carrier.

Missiles

The more recently built carriers are armed with three Raytheon GMLS mk29 eight-cell launchers for Nato Sea Sparrow surface-to-air missiles. Sea Sparrow has a range of 14.5km and semi-active radar terminal guidance.

"The flight deck measures
333m x 77m and is equipped with four lifts."The carriers are also fitted with the Raytheon RAM (rolling airframe missile) system, which provides short-range defence against incoming anti-ship missiles including sea-skimming missiles.

USS Stennis was fitted with RAM in 2005 and began firing trials of the system in June 2006. One Sea Sparrow mount and one Phalanx CIWS mount were removed to fit the RAM.

USS John C Stennis was the first carrier to fire the evolved Sea Sparrow missile (ESSM) in October 2008.

Guns

There are four Raytheon / General Dynamics 20mm Phalanx six-barrelled Mk 15 close-in weapon systems which have a firing rate of 3,000 rounds/min and a range of 1.5km.

Countermeasures

Decoys include four Sippican SRBOC (super rapid bloom off-board chaff) six-barrelled mk36 decoy launchers, which deploy infrared flares and chaff, SSTDS torpedo defence system and AN/SLQ-25 Nixie torpedo countermeasures system, from Argon ST of Fairfax, Virginia.

The Raytheon AN/SLQ-32(V) electronic warfare system detects hostile radar emissions by two sets of antennae and the system analyses the pulse repetition rate, the scan mode, the scan period, and the frequency. The system identifies the threat and direction, provides a warning signal and interfaces to the ship's countermeasures systems.

Remember to just attack an american air craft carrier would be an act of war, it dont have to succeed.
Combat systems

The carriers' combat data systems are based around the block 0 or 1 naval tactical and advanced combat direction system (ACDS) with communications links 4A, 11, 14, and 16. Weapons control is managed by three mk91 mod 1 MFCS directors for the Sea Sparrow missile.

USS Nimitz, USS Ronald Reagan and USS John Stennis have been fitted with the SSDS mk2 mod 0 ship self-defence system, developed by Raytheon. The SSDS will provide automated self-defence against anti-ship cruise missiles (ASCMs) by integrating and coordinating the ship's weapon and electronic warfare systems.

"The Raytheon AN/SLQ-32(V) electronic warfare system detects hostile radar emissions by two sets of antennae."USS Nimitz has also been fitted with the Lockheed Martin TIS (tactical input segment) digital reconnaissance processing system, which can receive real-time imagery from airborne sensors.

Sensors

Air search radars include the ITT SPS-48E 3-D, operating at E/F-band; Raytheon SPS49(V)5, C/D-band; and Raytheon mk23 TAS, D-band. Surface search radar is the Northrop Grumman Norden Systems SPS-67V, operating at G-band.




There are also a lot of electronic counter measures to deal with incomming missiles thats not mentioned here.

Nimitz Class Nuclear-Powered Aircraft Carriers - Naval Technology

I would expect the carriers would be several hundred miles from Iran in a conflict.