scythian500
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I am not implying that Iranian commanders are incompetent, I am pointing out a fact that while IRAN is a regional power, USA is a proven global power. I have debated with Iranians before and I came to realize that Iranians are highly motivated by nationalism which is good for boosting morale of the masses, but such magnitude of nationalism also have a drawback; it makes masses overconfident as is the case with many Iranians.
you,re right with this point. But Iranians that you talked with here are not neither Iranian high rank to know everything nor will be more than normal soldiers in case of a war. totally natioalism and also Shiism is pretty strong amog Iranians but per my observations as we go higher ad higher i ranks they look like more rational i estimation. I,m confident that Iranian forces are more than ready for a competent war for two reasons. Iran has already 8 year war with limited resources to back its forces. We hurt hard with that war although non of Iraqi goals realized. Today Iran is 10 times stroger but still as I always say, Iranian leaders know well both their capabilities and adversaries so I see it totally non sense to think they say, we are ready for a war if there is any. Although I wish no war is ever be here or anywhere.
Iranian military planners are trying to strengthen the nation's defensive and offensive options but they have limited resources and opportunities and are not in the position to adequately prepare for high-tech warfare in current times. Thousands of warheads sound intimidating on paper, the question-mark is about delivery capability, logistics management, safety of weapon systems, effectiveness of command & control infrastructure, accuracy of offensive weapons, and target identification & tracking capabilities in real-time.
If you see samples of Iranian made technologies in MADE IN IRAN thread you will get a better idea of what is it Irans current and possible capabilities. Iran still lacking some tech but I ca say %90 is already done. Delivery capabilities of Ira is known every where. Iran already mastered all types of missiles delivery systems. The highest tech is latest Ghaem SLV techology which is +12000 km ICBM if coverted to military version. The CEP of most Iranian delivery systems is now 5 m CEP for all ground to ground and ground to sea and ground to air missiles and 20 CEP for intermediate range ones. Iran already exported some of its weapons to afew friendly couuntries and as far as I know they are very happy with it. A big part of Iranian made systems are of logistic management importance my friend. We have adverseries from 4 sides of the country. Target identification is the easiest part for Iranian forces. They worked a lot on this. A big part of UAV program comes from this need. We have land based navigation systems and deep into enemy line observers. One of the most high tech parts of Iranian forces are their radar capability. There is 3 main layer + one sport layer radar target identification system in a 3000 km ciricle around Iran. Every planes or weapon masses or any ships are monitored in real-time. 24/7. I refer you to the network of Sepehr OTH +3000 km radars with stealth identification capabilites. +1100 km second phase radars joined by other radars of different functions with ranges between 500 to 700 km. a correlating network of short range radar and defence systems and upgraded Cruise, Ballistic and drone capable S-200, Tor M-1, Sayyad 2, 3 and 4 missiles and many fire control radars mostly of Russian origin but all of them are upgraded with new electronics and algorithms to have the system in a unique form than its export versions. The already practiced it and there are many samples on net. Every plane or object taking off in a circle of nearly 3000 kms is monitored and analysied by strtagic experts. Let not forget the pretty high tech Iranian electronic warefare capabilities and since all this technologies and all the algorithms are local, there will be limited threat to them. These all already realized and are in operation. Beside this, there is a huge 22th century system under developement that I can,t say much about but I know it has a unique system in which is unbreakable by any known electronic warfare. It will consist of individual electronic units with cameras, and different sensor mounted on soldiers... multiple central command management systems that subsitute damaged ones automaticly. New algorithms that can,t be broken. This system will make sure all the elements of Iranian forces do their designed job no matter what happens to them or no matter what counter masses are used. This huge program is already under develeopment and so far I,m aware of Central command systems and Iranian future soldier programs that exists. There are other elements that said will remain confidential all the way to the real war.
1. How many missiles can IRAN fire simultaneously in a single attempt?
Im, afraid I don,t know it.. even if I do... do you really expect me to say?? but per my estimates there will be sprawl technics against all ships. both missiles herd and fast boats. and with a single rule of the thumb, we can estimate that with around 50 permanent mobile sites around the southern shores it won,t be less than let,s say 100 missiles at once.. Iran managed to station multiple layer mobile missile launchers... some are as close as Iranian abu mousa and tonbs islands and some are as far as 200 km deep into Iranian soil and hidden in anti-satelitle and anti-radar facilities. All these are my estimates and I can,t be sure coz I,m not a commander in Iran.
2. How will IRAN manage to deploy and supposedly fire many missiles towards enemy positions without jeopardizing their safety from incoming enemy attack?
They already analysied western forces and capabilities and for sure they managed to do it in a way they have the least possible damages.
3. How IRAN will achieve high hit-rate with its weapon systems?
Precision weapons are well known..from smart +110 km one tone smart bombs... up to CEP 5 half a tone warhead missiles.. both ballistic and cruise. As far as I know, Iran trying to offset the defensive shileds of western ships and bases by very hight speeds and last stage maneuverable warheads plus MIRVs. Half of Iranian Fateh 110 and khalij e fars missiles are equiped with RAINY warheads that has 30 smaller warheads each 17 kg warhead.
4. How IRAN will track (mobile) US military targets? Already responsed. There are many online VIDEOS showed by Iranians on conferences in Tehran... tracking and monitoring US ships in real time. Even though those technologies are relatively old and Iran has much more capable UAVs now...but with those simple UAVs, US ships could n,t discover the monitoring operation for half and hour or more...let aside all the sophisticated radars Iran made operational.
5. How IRAN would counter US jamming technologies? it is 15 years now that Iran focused on this tech. They learned valuable lessons from previous incidents. although Iran is much more capable in make enemy jamming UNEFFECTIVE than offending by jamming western ships. This is my guess but as this aspect is of strategic importance to Iranians I can guess they already surpassed what they need.
You see! As we ponder, the list of questions grow. Iranians have the tendency to simplify things but complexities and uncertainties involved in a military operation are greater then they typically realize.
It is not simple not to Iran and not for US...
Examples? And what kind of testing procedures and scenarios considered? Also, how did IRAN manage to simulate US military capability in these exercises?
many many excersies done almost every year and sometimes twice a year... simulation in full scale...remember the nimitz class Iran built? Those are all for this purpose
Not long ago, IRAN threatened to close Strait of Hormuz if more sanctions were to be imposed on it by the WEST: BBC News - Iran threatens to block Strait of Hormuz oil route
It was not Iranian official stand as far as I know... If I,m not wrong it was made by some MPs in parliment or some commanders not in CHIEF position.. You heard this news but never heard the aftermass that Iranian officials rejected these claims.. Even if they did..it is childish claim... you don,t wanna go to a full scale war..it is just soft war .. although I have heard it is not official
However, Iranian threats turned out to be empty when US prepared itself for a possibility of war with Iran on this matter. Details nicely compiled here: 2011–12 Strait of Hormuz dispute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Do you really expect Iran to close straight of hormuz without a full scale war? it not a kiddy kiddow play
Yes, Iranian military posture is predominantly defensive with limited offensive capability but this is largely due to limited resources of the nation coupled with restrictions imposed on it via sanctions. Comparing to US budget , Iran is much lower as any other nation is. But the official 13 to 16 billion dollars budget of Iran should be at least tripled as Iran made all these with sometimes one fifth of the international price as it is all local and cheap.
USA have been busy in War on Terror in current times and their was little impetus to attack IRAN after it permitted IAEA to inspect its nuclear facilities. The two nations came closest to exchange blows in 2011 due to reason cited above but thankfully sanity prevailed in the end. Also, bravery, as a sole factor, is not sufficient to win a war against a technologically superior, determined and more resourceful adversary in modern era.
A simple search shows that USA and their allies were always into attacking Iran since revolution. specially in 2005 and 2007 when they were even prepared and planned everything and ordered to create a false flag incident in Persian Gulf. It is all known now.. But what happened that they realized the should not attack..this is another story... Iran was part of war on terror if you remember axis of evil speech of W. He said Every nation who is not with us is against us... Iran never invaded any country in more than 2 centuries now. All these non sense God FATHER of the world game US trying to play made Iranians become even more firm with their goal to dismantle this crazy, childish , stupid world order and make itself as strong as he can so he can redraw the play for all nations benefit.
Sounds like a hypothesis to me. How do you think that Iranians will breach the barriers of US jamming capabilities, offensive options, defensive options, military tactics, and Intel gathering networks without any issue? Are you assuming that USA is sitting blind and have no countermeasures in place for the incoming Iranian onslaught?
You as I can see is pretty intimated with western propaganda claims.. If US commanders were in same mindset as you are then they would have invaded Iran a while ago. No army in this world is MIGHTY... every army has its weaknesses...you only need to realize it and plan for it and update your plans with their changes... You know what with all the respect I have for you pakistani guys, I see you, think, act and feared as west WANTS YOU to be. You made their dominance game EASY. IF you recall those small bare hand groups of Hizbullah and Hamas and Others and their guts to confront a 10000 times stronger (on paper) armies and seen the results. (hisbullah not only still exists but grow stronger day by day).. then you might for second think that maybe winning in a war or defending your country in case of Iran, Is not as easy as the game of comparing chevy Camaro 2014 Vs Ford Mustang. War has tens of aspects. US regular capabilities are not in par with irregular Iran's capabilities my friend... They can start the war and hit us hard..but the fact that 1- it is almost unknown what to expect from Iran in real war and 2- irregular unorthodox consequences of inside war and after math of it.. leave a huge room of hesitation among western leaders... you know why nobody could wipe Alghaeda or taliban or ISIS out yet despite all the casulties? because they know they have no good chance in weapon Vs weapons basis..then they go to find weaknesses and hit enemy hard from those points... irregular Technics that are known in hundreds..so, a wise military expert would take evrythig into consideration when they want to plan an invasion..
Of-course, I am not claiming that US may not suffer some casualties during a war, but think about how much IRAN stands to loose in this confrontation.
Already responded... one should always ask himself the question of WHY despite all Israeli and western claims that we must invade Iran...why so far and we are in 2015...this dream still is a dream? Don,t tell me they prefer diplomatic solutions.. they always imposed their will militarily as soon as they wanted something.. if you see they can,t leave the negotiations...think of a fact that maybe they already tried to do the same with IRan ..the same as they did to Afgh and Iraq and libya and Serb....etc...but the found out that this war should not be unleashed... it is not for their good... Western commanders are much more wiser than people think... they won,t start a war unless they are sure they finish it soon and with affordable casualties... US likes to invade a weak nation to show he is almighty... but think why most expects talk about a possible WW3 scenario in case they go to war with Iran... If it was only empty claims or exaggeration from Iranian side then all millions of western experts should not be fooled..right?
US fleet commanders have resources, experience and confidence to tackle any adversary, should the situation demand. Keep this fact in mind.
I keep that in mind... we don,t have experience...nor enough mind to defende ourselves...then nothing to be worried of... West will crash Iran if they want to... yes, if they want to!
you,re right with this point. But Iranians that you talked with here are not neither Iranian high rank to know everything nor will be more than normal soldiers in case of a war. totally natioalism and also Shiism is pretty strong amog Iranians but per my observations as we go higher ad higher i ranks they look like more rational i estimation. I,m confident that Iranian forces are more than ready for a competent war for two reasons. Iran has already 8 year war with limited resources to back its forces. We hurt hard with that war although non of Iraqi goals realized. Today Iran is 10 times stroger but still as I always say, Iranian leaders know well both their capabilities and adversaries so I see it totally non sense to think they say, we are ready for a war if there is any. Although I wish no war is ever be here or anywhere.
Iranian military planners are trying to strengthen the nation's defensive and offensive options but they have limited resources and opportunities and are not in the position to adequately prepare for high-tech warfare in current times. Thousands of warheads sound intimidating on paper, the question-mark is about delivery capability, logistics management, safety of weapon systems, effectiveness of command & control infrastructure, accuracy of offensive weapons, and target identification & tracking capabilities in real-time.
If you see samples of Iranian made technologies in MADE IN IRAN thread you will get a better idea of what is it Irans current and possible capabilities. Iran still lacking some tech but I ca say %90 is already done. Delivery capabilities of Ira is known every where. Iran already mastered all types of missiles delivery systems. The highest tech is latest Ghaem SLV techology which is +12000 km ICBM if coverted to military version. The CEP of most Iranian delivery systems is now 5 m CEP for all ground to ground and ground to sea and ground to air missiles and 20 CEP for intermediate range ones. Iran already exported some of its weapons to afew friendly couuntries and as far as I know they are very happy with it. A big part of Iranian made systems are of logistic management importance my friend. We have adverseries from 4 sides of the country. Target identification is the easiest part for Iranian forces. They worked a lot on this. A big part of UAV program comes from this need. We have land based navigation systems and deep into enemy line observers. One of the most high tech parts of Iranian forces are their radar capability. There is 3 main layer + one sport layer radar target identification system in a 3000 km ciricle around Iran. Every planes or weapon masses or any ships are monitored in real-time. 24/7. I refer you to the network of Sepehr OTH +3000 km radars with stealth identification capabilites. +1100 km second phase radars joined by other radars of different functions with ranges between 500 to 700 km. a correlating network of short range radar and defence systems and upgraded Cruise, Ballistic and drone capable S-200, Tor M-1, Sayyad 2, 3 and 4 missiles and many fire control radars mostly of Russian origin but all of them are upgraded with new electronics and algorithms to have the system in a unique form than its export versions. The already practiced it and there are many samples on net. Every plane or object taking off in a circle of nearly 3000 kms is monitored and analysied by strtagic experts. Let not forget the pretty high tech Iranian electronic warefare capabilities and since all this technologies and all the algorithms are local, there will be limited threat to them. These all already realized and are in operation. Beside this, there is a huge 22th century system under developement that I can,t say much about but I know it has a unique system in which is unbreakable by any known electronic warfare. It will consist of individual electronic units with cameras, and different sensor mounted on soldiers... multiple central command management systems that subsitute damaged ones automaticly. New algorithms that can,t be broken. This system will make sure all the elements of Iranian forces do their designed job no matter what happens to them or no matter what counter masses are used. This huge program is already under develeopment and so far I,m aware of Central command systems and Iranian future soldier programs that exists. There are other elements that said will remain confidential all the way to the real war.
1. How many missiles can IRAN fire simultaneously in a single attempt?
Im, afraid I don,t know it.. even if I do... do you really expect me to say?? but per my estimates there will be sprawl technics against all ships. both missiles herd and fast boats. and with a single rule of the thumb, we can estimate that with around 50 permanent mobile sites around the southern shores it won,t be less than let,s say 100 missiles at once.. Iran managed to station multiple layer mobile missile launchers... some are as close as Iranian abu mousa and tonbs islands and some are as far as 200 km deep into Iranian soil and hidden in anti-satelitle and anti-radar facilities. All these are my estimates and I can,t be sure coz I,m not a commander in Iran.
2. How will IRAN manage to deploy and supposedly fire many missiles towards enemy positions without jeopardizing their safety from incoming enemy attack?
They already analysied western forces and capabilities and for sure they managed to do it in a way they have the least possible damages.
3. How IRAN will achieve high hit-rate with its weapon systems?
Precision weapons are well known..from smart +110 km one tone smart bombs... up to CEP 5 half a tone warhead missiles.. both ballistic and cruise. As far as I know, Iran trying to offset the defensive shileds of western ships and bases by very hight speeds and last stage maneuverable warheads plus MIRVs. Half of Iranian Fateh 110 and khalij e fars missiles are equiped with RAINY warheads that has 30 smaller warheads each 17 kg warhead.
4. How IRAN will track (mobile) US military targets? Already responsed. There are many online VIDEOS showed by Iranians on conferences in Tehran... tracking and monitoring US ships in real time. Even though those technologies are relatively old and Iran has much more capable UAVs now...but with those simple UAVs, US ships could n,t discover the monitoring operation for half and hour or more...let aside all the sophisticated radars Iran made operational.
5. How IRAN would counter US jamming technologies? it is 15 years now that Iran focused on this tech. They learned valuable lessons from previous incidents. although Iran is much more capable in make enemy jamming UNEFFECTIVE than offending by jamming western ships. This is my guess but as this aspect is of strategic importance to Iranians I can guess they already surpassed what they need.
You see! As we ponder, the list of questions grow. Iranians have the tendency to simplify things but complexities and uncertainties involved in a military operation are greater then they typically realize.
It is not simple not to Iran and not for US...
Examples? And what kind of testing procedures and scenarios considered? Also, how did IRAN manage to simulate US military capability in these exercises?
many many excersies done almost every year and sometimes twice a year... simulation in full scale...remember the nimitz class Iran built? Those are all for this purpose
Not long ago, IRAN threatened to close Strait of Hormuz if more sanctions were to be imposed on it by the WEST: BBC News - Iran threatens to block Strait of Hormuz oil route
It was not Iranian official stand as far as I know... If I,m not wrong it was made by some MPs in parliment or some commanders not in CHIEF position.. You heard this news but never heard the aftermass that Iranian officials rejected these claims.. Even if they did..it is childish claim... you don,t wanna go to a full scale war..it is just soft war .. although I have heard it is not official
However, Iranian threats turned out to be empty when US prepared itself for a possibility of war with Iran on this matter. Details nicely compiled here: 2011–12 Strait of Hormuz dispute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Do you really expect Iran to close straight of hormuz without a full scale war? it not a kiddy kiddow play
Yes, Iranian military posture is predominantly defensive with limited offensive capability but this is largely due to limited resources of the nation coupled with restrictions imposed on it via sanctions. Comparing to US budget , Iran is much lower as any other nation is. But the official 13 to 16 billion dollars budget of Iran should be at least tripled as Iran made all these with sometimes one fifth of the international price as it is all local and cheap.
USA have been busy in War on Terror in current times and their was little impetus to attack IRAN after it permitted IAEA to inspect its nuclear facilities. The two nations came closest to exchange blows in 2011 due to reason cited above but thankfully sanity prevailed in the end. Also, bravery, as a sole factor, is not sufficient to win a war against a technologically superior, determined and more resourceful adversary in modern era.
A simple search shows that USA and their allies were always into attacking Iran since revolution. specially in 2005 and 2007 when they were even prepared and planned everything and ordered to create a false flag incident in Persian Gulf. It is all known now.. But what happened that they realized the should not attack..this is another story... Iran was part of war on terror if you remember axis of evil speech of W. He said Every nation who is not with us is against us... Iran never invaded any country in more than 2 centuries now. All these non sense God FATHER of the world game US trying to play made Iranians become even more firm with their goal to dismantle this crazy, childish , stupid world order and make itself as strong as he can so he can redraw the play for all nations benefit.
Sounds like a hypothesis to me. How do you think that Iranians will breach the barriers of US jamming capabilities, offensive options, defensive options, military tactics, and Intel gathering networks without any issue? Are you assuming that USA is sitting blind and have no countermeasures in place for the incoming Iranian onslaught?
You as I can see is pretty intimated with western propaganda claims.. If US commanders were in same mindset as you are then they would have invaded Iran a while ago. No army in this world is MIGHTY... every army has its weaknesses...you only need to realize it and plan for it and update your plans with their changes... You know what with all the respect I have for you pakistani guys, I see you, think, act and feared as west WANTS YOU to be. You made their dominance game EASY. IF you recall those small bare hand groups of Hizbullah and Hamas and Others and their guts to confront a 10000 times stronger (on paper) armies and seen the results. (hisbullah not only still exists but grow stronger day by day).. then you might for second think that maybe winning in a war or defending your country in case of Iran, Is not as easy as the game of comparing chevy Camaro 2014 Vs Ford Mustang. War has tens of aspects. US regular capabilities are not in par with irregular Iran's capabilities my friend... They can start the war and hit us hard..but the fact that 1- it is almost unknown what to expect from Iran in real war and 2- irregular unorthodox consequences of inside war and after math of it.. leave a huge room of hesitation among western leaders... you know why nobody could wipe Alghaeda or taliban or ISIS out yet despite all the casulties? because they know they have no good chance in weapon Vs weapons basis..then they go to find weaknesses and hit enemy hard from those points... irregular Technics that are known in hundreds..so, a wise military expert would take evrythig into consideration when they want to plan an invasion..
Of-course, I am not claiming that US may not suffer some casualties during a war, but think about how much IRAN stands to loose in this confrontation.
Already responded... one should always ask himself the question of WHY despite all Israeli and western claims that we must invade Iran...why so far and we are in 2015...this dream still is a dream? Don,t tell me they prefer diplomatic solutions.. they always imposed their will militarily as soon as they wanted something.. if you see they can,t leave the negotiations...think of a fact that maybe they already tried to do the same with IRan ..the same as they did to Afgh and Iraq and libya and Serb....etc...but the found out that this war should not be unleashed... it is not for their good... Western commanders are much more wiser than people think... they won,t start a war unless they are sure they finish it soon and with affordable casualties... US likes to invade a weak nation to show he is almighty... but think why most expects talk about a possible WW3 scenario in case they go to war with Iran... If it was only empty claims or exaggeration from Iranian side then all millions of western experts should not be fooled..right?
US fleet commanders have resources, experience and confidence to tackle any adversary, should the situation demand. Keep this fact in mind.
I keep that in mind... we don,t have experience...nor enough mind to defende ourselves...then nothing to be worried of... West will crash Iran if they want to... yes, if they want to!