Alibaba stock suffers record fall after antitrust probe in China

[Microsoft]

It's amazing China is willing to tackle this problem and go through the growing pains to come out stronger on the other side. In the US there are 2 anti-trust cases filed against Google last week but no difference because everyone knows that big tech has far too much power. This is what Trump is trying to do but all of the crooks in Washington are already under big tech wing.

 

[Place Of Space]

But CPC must act based on rules not just throw its weight around and act like the biggest goon in china. And it must signal its rules well ahead in time so observers can get confidence.

Jack Ma try to monopolize financial market. This is his route: consumers use pay for goods on alibaba.com via Alipay, he earns the money, then he lend this money to consumers at high interest to buy goods, then he lend again the interest to consumers to buy goods at high interest, it's a dead cycle. I just describe the model very short, his business and financial system of course much complicated than this. A lot of consumers, especially the young has missed in the consumption trap, their life are in serious debt crisis. His goal is replacing banking system, making financial market a total out of control.

Wrong. Chinese government did this not because Jack Ma said something. It was based on what Jack Ma does. Chinese government doesn't care criticisms on economic issues. Matter of fact, the CCP welcomes suggestions. That's part of reasons why China always has foreseen plans for future development strategies.

What Jack Ma said means, Alibaba wants to become a financial company, instead of an innovation and high tech company. The problem is. Chinese government doesn't want to repeat Wall Street story in China. China doesn't need a financial company to exploit Chinese poeple with zero contribution to China's progress.

This is the war between banks and alibaba, you know. The core is interest, have nothing to do with something about contribution to China's progress.
Banks rarely lend money to private company, to small and medium-sized company, to farmers, to Internet startup company, to innovation startup company. The banks have been combined with state owned big company, the real estate, the infrastructure. They need a reform Actually, Which will make contribution to China's progress.

 

[INS_Vikrant]

Looks like Jack Ma tried to become as much powerful and Influential as other tech billionaires, but forgot he doesn't lives in California.

 

[Cookie Monster]

why is that? genuinely curious - is it that you cant stand jack ma or you know the company genuinely is horrible

It happened a few years back...I was in college and one of my buddies bought a used iphone 7(he was also a student...so on a budget). At that time iphone X was the newest so an iPhone 7 wasn't too ancient. He got scammed somehow...and the iphone 7 was blacklisted. So I thought...I'll help him out...I'll just buy an iPhone 7 motherboard and replace it with the one in his phone.

So I purchased one from AliExpress bcuz u can't just buy them in US...waited a while until it was delivered(from China). I proceeded to replace the logic board...and it didn't work. So I double checked all the connections and everything...and still nothing. I put the previous logic board back...and it worked as it did before(still blacklisted though).

I contacted AliExpress that the product was faulty. They said that at first I have to attempt to resolve it with the seller. I contacted the seller...he finally responded after a few days and asked for proof. This time I recorded a video of me replacing the original logic board with the seller's logic board and sent it to him. He said to return the product. I agreed...and asked him for a shipping label bcuz I'm not gonna pay the cost to ship it back since I'm not at fault here. He never replied.

So I contacted AliExpress...they said to file a claim on their website. I started that process...while filing the claim...u can only upload a picture...and not a video. So I uploaded the product's picture and filled out the rest of the details. I got an email to wait a couple of weeks until my claim resolves. Then finally I got the email that my claim had been rejected and they have ruled in favor of the seller.
...
I contacted AliExpress through their online chat service...explained everything. The representative said I need to submit video proof. I told him/her that the claims section doesn't allow for video upload...I was asked to share the video in the chat...and the rep will attach it to the claim and send it to "specialist team" that will be reviewing my claim. There was no direct way to share the video in the chat...so I uploaded it to my Google drive...and shared a link(made it public too just in case). I was asked to wait again...after a week or two...again my claim was rejected.
...
Contacted AliExpress through their chat service again. I asked why my claim was rejected this time when I showed video proof of the product not working as advertised? I was told Google doesn't work in China. I asked why the previous representative accepted a video link from a Google Drive upload and didn't tell me this before...for which I got a non answer like "I can't speak for others" kind of BS. Anyways...I asked them what would be the best way to share the video with them...the rep gave me some link where I could upload it and said he/she will reopen the claim and that I need to wait until the "specialist team" reviews my claim. After a week or so...again got an email that my claim was rejected.
...
Again contacted AliExpress...asked why my claim was rejected. The reply was that the "specialist team" has deemed the proof I provided to be insufficient. They found the video proof insufficient...where I made sure that the serial number of the product was visible...as I took it out from it's packaging...and filmed the entire replacement of the logic board. So I knew it was clearly BS. I asked if I can get in touch with the "specialist team" directly. The answer was no...and that this is the only way(as in to go through this retard customer service rep). So I asked the rep to watch the video...he/she did...and gave me the lip service that "yes u r totally right...the video shows everything clearly" and assured me that they will personally see to it that the "specialist team" realizes that they made a wrong decision. Again I waited and again the claim was denied.

This back and forth went on for a while...until conveniently the time had run out...whatever BS time they had like 30 day money back guarantee or whatever. So once that time ran out...they shamelessly told me...that I can no longer file a claim bcuz I was no longer covered by the money back guarantee.

I had to contact my bank to get my money back...thankfully they understood...and were kind enough to credit me the money I had paid.

I filed a complaint against AliExpress with BBB...and during that time found that there were plenty of other ppl with complaints against the business practices of AliExpress. In short they wasted my time(lots of it) and ripped me off. Of course the BBB did nothing...and AliExpress is still allowed to do business here.

@leviathan see above...this is why I hate AliBaba and AliExpress.

 

[INS_Vikrant]

There was no direct way to share the video in the chat...so I uploaded it to my Google drive...and shared a link(made it public too just in case). I
@leviathan see above...this is why I hate AliBaba and AliExpress.

They accepted a google drive link as a proof knowing very well it won't work in China, WTF?

 

[letsrock]

Jack Ma try to monopolize financial market. This is his route: consumers use pay for goods on alibaba.com via Alipay, he earns the money, then he lend this money to consumers at high interest to buy goods, then he lend again the interest to consumers to buy goods at high interest, it's a dead cycle. I just describe the model very short, his business and financial system of course much complicated than this. A lot of consumers, especially the young has missed in the consumption trap, their life are in serious debt crisis. His goal is replacing banking system, making financial market a total out of control.

As long as china is enforcing rules fairly its not a problem. People understand different countries have different rules. But it cannot be arbirtrary. And in this case it does not seem to be anyway.

 

[Place Of Space]

It happened a few years back...I was in college and one of my buddies bought a used iphone 7(he was also a student...so on a budget). At that time iphone X was the newest so an iPhone 7 wasn't too ancient. He got scammed somehow...and the iphone 7 was blacklisted. So I thought...I'll help him out...I'll just buy an iPhone 7 motherboard and replace it with the one in his phone.

So I purchased one from AliExpress bcuz u can't just buy them in US...waited a while until it was delivered(from China). I proceeded to replace the logic board...and it didn't work. So I double checked all the connections and everything...and still nothing. I put the previous logic board back...and it worked as it did before(still blacklisted though).

I contacted AliExpress that the product was faulty. They said that at first I have to attempt to resolve it with the seller. I contacted the seller...he finally responded after a few days and asked for proof. This time I recorded a video of me replacing the original logic board with the seller's logic board and sent it to him. He said to return the product. I agreed...and asked him for a shipping label bcuz I'm not gonna pay the cost to ship it back since I'm not at fault here. He never replied.

So I contacted AliExpress...they said to file a claim on their website. I started that process...while filing the claim...u can only upload a picture...and not a video. So I uploaded the product's picture and filled out the rest of the details. I got an email to wait a couple of weeks until my claim resolves. Then finally I got the email that my claim had been rejected and they have ruled in favor of the seller.
...
I contacted AliExpress through their online chat service...explained everything. The representative said I need to submit video proof. I told him/her that the claims section doesn't allow for video upload...I was asked to share the video in the chat...and the rep will attach it to the claim and send it to "specialist team" that will be reviewing my claim. There was no direct way to share the video in the chat...so I uploaded it to my Google drive...and shared a link(made it public too just in case). I was asked to wait again...after a week or two...again my claim was rejected.
...
Contacted AliExpress through their chat service again. I asked why my claim was rejected this time when I showed video proof of the product not working as advertised? I was told Google doesn't work in China. I asked why the previous representative accepted a video link from a Google Drive upload and didn't tell me this before...for which I got a non answer like "I can't speak for others" kind of BS. Anyways...I asked them what would be the best way to share the video with them...the rep gave me some link where I could upload it and said he/she will reopen the claim and that I need to wait until the "specialist team" reviews my claim. After a week or so...again got an email that my claim was rejected.
...
Again contacted AliExpress...asked why my claim was rejected. The reply was that the "specialist team" has deemed the proof I provided to be insufficient. They found the video proof insufficient...where I made sure that the serial number of the product was visible...as I took it out from it's packaging...and filmed the entire replacement of the logic board. So I knew it was clearly BS. I asked if I can get in touch with the "specialist team" directly. The answer was no...and that this is the only way(as in to go through this retard customer service rep). So I asked the rep to watch the video...he/she did...and gave me the lip service that "yes u r totally right...the video shows everything clearly" and assured me that they will personally see to it that the "specialist team" realizes that they made a wrong decision. Again I waited and again the claim was denied.

This back and forth went on for a while...until conveniently the time had run out...whatever BS time they had like 30 day money back guarantee or whatever. So once that time ran out...they shamelessly told me...that I can no longer file a claim bcuz I was no longer covered by the money back guarantee.

I had to contact my bank to get my money back...thankfully they understood...and were kind enough to credit me the money I had paid.

I filed a complaint against AliExpress with BBB...and during that time found that there were plenty of other ppl with complaints against the business practices of AliExpress. In short they wasted my time(lots of it) and ripped me off. Of course the BBB did nothing...and AliExpress is still allowed to do business here.

@leviathan see above...this is why I hate AliBaba and AliExpress.

It's really a long story. You didn't buy return freight insurance, this is what you ignored in the beginning.

 

[kankan326]

This is the war between banks and alibaba, you know. The core is interest, have nothing to do with something about contribution to China's progress.
Banks rarely lend money to private company, to small and medium-sized company, to farmers, to Internet startup company, to innovation startup company. The banks have been combined with state owned big company, the real estate, the infrastructure. They need a reform Actually, Which will make contribution to China's progress.

Big banks have problems. I agree on that. But Jack Ma doesn't offer any money in his big plans. He wants to borrow money from banks and use it to run his own busniness. What's the contribution he can make to the society? Chinese government can estabish a bank specialized in private companies business if necessary.

 

[Place Of Space]

Big banks have problems. I agree on that. But Jack Ma doesn't offer any money in his big plans. He wants to borrow money from banks and use it to run his own busniness. What's the contribution he can make to the society? Chinese government can estabish a bank specialized in private companies business if necessary.

Do you know how his company grow up in the beginning? He borrowed money from the Japanese because the govt officials and banks didn't give him a shit.

 

[Cookie Monster]

It's really a long story. You didn't buy return freight insurance, this is what you ignored in the beginning.

I don't have to buy return freight insurance...
...AliExpress claims that they protect the buyer if the product they received isn't as advertised by the seller.

Either they shouldn't make those claims...or if they make that claim then they should honor it... especially when video proof is provided. Stop defending their shady business practices.

 

[Place Of Space]

I don't have to buy return freight insurance...
...AliExpress claims that they protect the buyer if the product they received isn't as advertised by the seller.

Either they shouldn't make those claims...or if they make that claim then they should honor it... especially when video proof is provided. Stop defending their shady business practices.

Return freight insurance is just a little bit money. I often buy the insurance, it can reduce lots of troubles when I want to return goods. However, I never use aliexpress, I don't know details. It's better you contact and negotiate with the shop directly, I cope with similar problem this way, or I threat I will give the shop negative review.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Return freight insurance is just a little bit money. I often buy the insurance, it can reduce lots of troubles when I want to return goods. However, I never use aliexpress, I don't know details. It's better you contact and negotiate with the shop directly, I cope with similar problem this way, or I threat I will give the shop negative review.

U r telling me an alternative which wasn't the subject of my post at all. @letsrock had asked me out of curiosity as to why I hated Alibaba and AliExpress...and I simply wrote why I hated them.

 

[mike2000 is back]

Do you know how his company grow up in the beginning? He borrowed money from the Japanese because the govt officials and banks didn't give him a shit.

To be fair, it's not just the state owned banks who have a monopoly that should be blamed. The problem is with the government and it's policies. State owned banks are indirectly under the control of the state/government and have to follow government policies which means adopting less risks and exposing themselves to minimum risks. This involves not taking risks to borrow to/invest in small private companies/upstarts . That is the policy of these state owned banks and it's welcomed by the government. Since government wants to minimize risk involved in defaults/or in case the company isn't successful .
The thing is that you can't eat your cake and have it. Lol. The party wants to have complete control of the economy/financial industry/tech industry etc etc while at the same time they also want to see a thriving successful innovative private industry. However they forget that you can hardly have both, since as long as the state gets too involved in the activities of the private sector then it will limit their growth and innovation. Since innovation requires risks/diving into the unknown, and a company can't be successful and ground breaking without taking risks as well. If you want to have ZERO risk exposure like the party seem to want to think, then you will only remain with your state owned companies dominating every sector and the state running everything, which is not sustainable.
The example you gave is a good one. The fact that Alibaba and other successful Chinese private tech companies had to look for foreigners and overseas corporations to lend them money to start their business shows how backward China's capital and state dominated financial system is(including its stock exchange market). They need urgent reforms in this sector. However it will be difficult to achieve , since this will mean opening up the sector and loosening the control/strangle hold of state owned institutions/and government in this regard. Something i don't think the party is willing to accept.

Big banks have problems. I agree on that. But Jack Ma doesn't offer any money in his big plans. He wants to borrow money from banks and use it to run his own busniness. What's the contribution he can make to the society? Chinese government can estabish a bank specialized in private companies business if necessary.

The Chinese government better reform it's state owned banks monopolies fast then . Since the US( where Chinese tech companies always run to, to raise capital and trade their stock) is already running out of patience with them. The US has started looking into delisting Chinese companies from it's stock market or restricting them. So the party better realize it can't eat it's cake and have it. They will have to trade off control and open up/reform this sector . Else their private companies might be facing issues growing and raising capital in future.

Trump signs law that could delist Chinese companies from US exchanges

The Holding Foreign Companies Accountable Act requires publicly traded foreign companies to comply with US auditing rules within three years.

amp.scmp.com

 

[bbccdd1470]

Wrong. Chinese government did this not because Jack Ma said something. It was based on what Jack Ma does. Chinese government doesn't care criticisms on economic issues. Matter of fact, the CCP welcomes suggestions. That's part of reasons why China always has foreseen plans for future development strategies.

What Jack Ma said means, Alibaba wants to become a financial company, instead of an innovation and high tech company. The problem is. Chinese government doesn't want to repeat Wall Street story in China. China doesn't need a financial company to exploit Chinese poeple with zero contribution to China's progress.

Kankan326, this was a detailed video talked about Ant Group where you can read the description since it spoke in Cantonese. The whole thing is more crooked than those foreigners believe.

 

[Viet]

The real issue now is that i am afraid Ant Financial will not be as valuable as it would have been prior to its first IPO. Even if they were to list in future (if they even do anymore), they will be valued far less than what they should have been prior to the CCP pulling off the rug on them. It seems to me that Xi Jinping is hell bent on cutting down these big private tech companies to size and bring down their influence/scale. Since Xi Jinping has openly said his policy is to strengthen the state and by default state owned companies, something private tech companies like Alibaba, Ant financial and the likes threaten the power and reach of state owned corporations. In fact if not for the CCP closing up and forbidden any private sector involvement in other core sectors like Telecom, finance, oil and gas, tobacco, electricity etc then private companies will be very active in these sectors and they would have been a few large private companies that emerged in these sectors as well.

So this new laws and actions the party has taken should be taken very seriously, since this shows a change of policy and how things are going to be done from now on moving forward. It seems the party will be having more say and control over private companies like they already do with SOE.. this would include giving a company’s internal Party group control over the human resources decisions of the enterprise and allowing it to carry out company audits, including monitoring internal behaviour. So the party will be having more say and control/oversight over private companies(Especially the large influential ones). We will need to wait and see how these will affect the operations of these companies abroad,

I think China should just break down these big companies into small ones or they can just nationalize them and have the state take control over these companies and the decision making in this companies. Easy solution. That way there will never be a case of a big private company that grows to a certain size. Another solution will be to simply extend the state monopoly over these sectors and ban private participation/involvement in these sectors like in other sectors where the state has monopoly already.

Just for fun I bought some Alibaba stocks one year ago, still 187 percent plus. I grossly underestimated chinese love for casinos I would have bought more shares otherwise.
To get a feeling how Ali functions I ordered two batches of face masks in China. I chatted with their customer service. I complained. I threatened to cancel orders, wanting my money back.
I would order shares of Ant if it goes public and becomes available.
Chinese are pure capitalists.