Al-Khalid & Type 99 Comparison

[master_fx]

1. Look at the second paragraph it will say Pakistan worked in accosiation with china to make the AK, It will also say that NORINCO has made a SIMILAR tank called MBT 2000

i dont think mbt2000 is a copy of AK....... *check ur source's reliability....

 

[ChinaWall65]

I take that article back, it was dated in year 2000...not reliable

 

[ChinaWall65]

1. Look at the second paragraph it will say Pakistan worked in accosiation with china to make the AK, It will also say that NORINCO has made a SIMILAR tank called MBT 2000

2. Wikipedia is a open source, I can edit it anytime I wish

What part dont you get about based off of?
The only good source you give me is this site (copied from other sources) and sinodefence.
Go to ****************, pakdef, and other sites a will see that its only based off of the Type-90II and made entirely by HIT.
I never said AK used french electronic I only said it used French thermals and loader which is true

The Type 90II looks nothing like the AK hell it looks like a T-72

You are the kind of people that think that everything Pakistan makes on its own is chinese


Give me the news source proving that Pakistan signed a deal with china to liscence produce the AK, this was speculation made by indians after the AK was revealed

I have given you enough sources to prove my point, why don't you provide some of your sources that says AK is indigenous.

 

[Muradk]

Friends I need a little help , some one told me that we have a big buyer for our tank and no one will belive who the buyer is , so any ideas who wants to buy our Al khalid.

 

[MOO]

Its Saudi Arabia who asked for 150 Al Khalids for 600 Million a few months ago.

 

[Kaiser]

I have given you enough sources to prove my point, why don't you provide some of your sources that says AK is indigenous.

Why not do a little research on your own?

 

[ChinaWall65]

Why not do a little research on your own?

I did, and they all say Type 90II and AK are the same tank. So how about show me what sources you got that says AK is indigenous

 

[MOO]

I just wanna put an imput into this discussion here if you don't mind guys.


The MBT-2000 and the Al khalid are all from the same family of tanks. The chassis of the MBT-2000 is clearly identical and used on the Al Khalid and as well the turrent of both of the two. So far from what as been heard was that China lend the program to Pakistan and gave full TOT.

Germany doesn't make 125mm smooth bore guns, only 120mm from what I've heard. Pakistan does have experiences in making tank guns from the liscence manufacturing T-85 IIAP though. We can all agree that the main-gun came from China at one point in time.

What Pakistan did was take the MBT-2000 program and improved it to suit its regional requirements. The internal navigational system, and hunter-killer system is their own version made in Pakistan and the engine is an import from Ukraine that'll work well in desert combat and some minor tweaks with French thermals as some would say. Ok no problem.

China input:
The 125mm smoothbore gun
The Hull of the Turrent and Chassis.
The FCS.

 

[ChinaWall65]

I just wanna put an imput into this discussion here if you don't mind guys.


The MBT-2000 and the Al khalid are all from the same family of tanks. The chassis of the MBT-2000 is clearly identical and used on the Al Khalid and as well the turrent of both of the two. So far from what as been heard was that China lend the program to Pakistan and gave full TOT.

Germany doesn't make 125mm smooth bore guns, only 120mm from what I've heard. Pakistan does have experiences in making tank guns from the liscence manufacturing T-85 IIAP though. We can all agree that the main-gun came from China at one point in time.

What Pakistan did was take the MBT-2000 program and improved it to suit its regional requirements. The internal navigational system, and hunter-killer system is their own version made in Pakistan and the engine is an import from Ukraine that'll work well in desert combat and some minor tweaks with French thermals as some would say. Ok no problem.

China input:
The 125mm smoothbore gun
The Hull of the Turrent and Chassis.
The FCS.

Good point. But what Kaiser has in mind is that AK is an indigenous design based off of Type 90 II while in actuality AK is a Type 90 II with minor modifications to fit Pakistan's purpose.

The Ak was made by HIT fully at HIT but based off of the chinese type 90, pakistan started evaluating different tanks in the late 1980's and that also include the M1A1 abrams. Instead pakistan got sanctioned so it looked to make its own tanks and based its Ak off of the scrapped Type 90II project.

 

[dberwal]

Some facts i could find form net:AL-KHALID MBT PROJECT

The Al Khalid project ran into numerous problems, especially with its Chinese power pack. The western powerplants were very cosltly for cash strapped Pakistan and technology denials. Pakistan was finally forced to settle for Ukraine 1200-hp diesel engine. As revealed in latest press release from Pakistani sources, the engines overheated and caught fire. But the other problems remain. Since Pakistani and Chinese sources have not revealed what problems did the failed tank T-90-II had. Al Khalid naturally inherited same problems. If the problems were overcome Chinese army might have been interested in this too.

In 2003 Another set back occured. In addition to the tank structural, mechanical and performance problems, the corruption in the procurement section led to a case in Royal Courts of Justice, Strand, London WC2 A 2LL,
February 14 2003. There were fradulent deals. Powerpack and Hull arrival from Ukrain suffered another set back.

The initial AL Khalid was a very basic tank. The crew confidence in the tank was low because of engine fires and other problems

In August 2004 it was reported by Pakistani sources that the tank is now equipped with Crew Bay Explosion Detection and Suppression System to lend confidence to the crew in the battlefield. Engine Compartment Fire Detection and Extinguishing System makes Al-Khalid free of any possible engine fire caused by fuel leaks or overheating of the engine.

The problem is the engines are still catching fires. Pakistan has to still a long way to go to find the solutions for the major problems faced by Al Khalid tank.

According to a 2001 report, Pakistan planned to add another 300 indigenous Al-Khalid tanks to its armoured corps by 2007. Since 1991 prototype till 2004, there are no more than 100 tanks produced.

Citing the religious closeness to some Islamic countries Pakistan has managed show some demonstrations. As per latest report pakistan has used german engines in Al Khalid for demondtration purposes. The inference is that the much hyped Ukranian engine are not upto the mark.

Contrary to the claim the indegenious content in Al khalid is dismally low. Al Khalid gun and acessoriesis imported from china. Hull, Gear box and Powerpack is imported Ukrain. It also has some western equipment.

As per an Pakistani analyst, The Al-Khalid, at 46.5 tons, is probably a decent tank for the Punjabi battlefield. General Musharraf claims that its 125-millimetre gun and fire control system are among the best in the world, but that may be just a claim as there has never been any supporting documentation, thay are just rumors.

source :
Royal Courts of Justice, London http://www.hrothgar.co.uk/YAWS/reps/165b.htm

 

[master_fx]

o well, AK will surely kick indian t-90 in the *** hard!


[Mod Edit: We'd appreciate some more input instead of such remarks for the sake of a healthier discussion. Thanks]

 

[desimorty]

T-90 in Action!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

o well, AK will surely kick indian t-90 in the *** hard!

Just like the Isreali super tank?

and the most modern Pattaon tank of the times (i.e. 1965)!



[Mod Edit: We'd appreciate more input than lines with sarcastic undertones - potential flame baits. Thanks]

 

[blain2]

Some facts i could find form net:AL-KHALID MBT PROJECT

The Al Khalid project ran into numerous problems, especially with its Chinese power pack. The western powerplants were very cosltly for cash strapped Pakistan and technology denials. Pakistan was finally forced to settle for Ukraine 1200-hp diesel engine. As revealed in latest press release from Pakistani sources, the engines overheated and caught fire. But the other problems remain. Since Pakistani and Chinese sources have not revealed what problems did the failed tank T-90-II had. Al Khalid naturally inherited same problems. If the problems were overcome Chinese army might have been interested in this too.

source :
Royal Courts of Justice, London http://www.hrothgar.co.uk/YAWS/reps/165b.htm

Can you please post an appropriate source URL for this article? Quite a few points are very problematic in this report. It also has quite a few hyperbolic assertions in view of the fact that none of the assertions have any footnotes to point out the sources. I know for a fact that AK program just like many others have had its share of problems but the reasons are quite incorrect (like the one that claims German engines being used due to lack of confidence in the Uk engines).

The only point that I agree with is that this tank is very suitable for the Punjab plains as it has been specifically tweaked for operations in such theaters.

Pakistani armoured Corps already has 124 AKs in service with 3 of the Cavalry units and in the near future another Cavalry unit is slated to receive its AKs. So the plan to have approx. 300 or so is still apace. This is also the reason that Pakistan has not placed any further orders of T-84s or any other Chinese tank (older T-59s still need replacement and the only candidate for this is the AK).

 

[Chukkar]

I am personally aware of more T-84s being negotiated with Ukraine! The Malyshev people were very eager to get their hands on a contract for all the transmissions and engines..