Akinci & Aksungur and Turkish Unmanned Fighter Aircraft Program

[BaybarsHan]

 

[dBSPL]

6 x MAM-L
2 x Bozok
2 x MAM-T
1 x Teber-82
1 x KGK-SİHA-82
1 x SOM-J

With this weapon configuration, it appears that there is over 1.6 tons of weapon payload.

In this case, it is almost certain that the useful load capacity of AKINCI-C will be around 2 tons. Its structural features and wing lifting capacity are already suitable for this. When I said this 2 years ago, I couldn't convince some of my friends.

 

[CSAW]

6 x MAM-L
2 x Bozok
2 x MAM-T
1 x Teber-82
1 x KGK-SİHA-82
1 x SOM-J

With this weapon configuration, it appears that there is over 1.6 tons of weapon payload.

In this case, it is almost certain that the useful load capacity of AKINCI-C will be around 2 tons. Its structural features and wing lifting capacity are already suitable for this. When I said this 2 years ago, I couldn't convince some of my friends.

@dBSPL

The only downside ,which some keyboard warriors largely Indians, are arguing furiously, is that

would it stand to the enemy Air Defenses , being Slow as compared to CAS Jets & with Large RCS due to Weapons Load out.

Your Views Plz.

 

[dBSPL]

@dBSPL

The only downside ,which some keyboard warriors largely Indians, are arguing furiously, is that

would it stand to the enemy Air Defenses , being Slow as compared to CAS Jets & with Large RCS due to Weapons Load out.

Your Views Plz.

Electronic absorption, blunting, jamming or deception are a completely different field of expertise and even without going into that subject,

UCAVs here are low-mass, and almost entirely FRP-based composite component structures. On the other hand, in conventional manned CAS jets, apart from the canopy, taileron and fins, polycarbonate, graphite epoxy laminate etc. or advanced thermoplastic composites are used very little, and aluminum and titanium alloy metallic structures are used.

As far as we know from other systems of BAYKAR(TB-2), AKINCI body and structurals are made of prepreg and carbon fiber reinforced polymeric materials. The said aerospace composites can show very flexible properties at +/- G forces, albeit within some limitations. Although the wingspan is wide, the cross-sectional dimensions are minimal.

The other factor causing the detection difficulty of drones is low cruise speed. Low speed is not a disadvantage in terms of detectability. In addition, UAVs in the air support role do not have to descend to very low altitudes like conventional jets due to the systems and ammunition types they carry. These types of drones don't use high angle of attack. Even in tactical systems the average engagement altitude is probably above 15k ft. The main requirement is patrol time at a level that manned jets can never even come close to.

In fact, the doctrinal approaches and operational systematics of these armed turboprop drones are based on low speed and long endurance. When you examine many systems from different countries, their common feature is that they can fly at very low speeds without going into STALL.

It is very difficult to detect it out of its engagement range, except for some specific radar types and ways. And its compact low noise engine and tiny silhouette make it very difficult to detect with the naked eye too. Due to the advantage of low-mass UAVs based on fiber-reinforced polymers or similar over conventional radars and air defense concepts, many countries are currently working on air defense concepts and systems, specilizied for these UAVs.

For reference, I would like to share with you the results of a simulation with the TB-2:
(12m wingspan, piston engine and normal cruising speed around 80kts. The engagement range of the weapon systems it carries is around 15km)

@CrazyZ @Paul2 @Wood

TB2 detectability for RuAF, theorycrafting using C:MO Simulation Software.
Scenario: When, how, and how far away does RuAF actually detect TB2 in Clean and MAML configuration.

Initial Scenario: 2 sets of TB2, with MAML and Clean.
- AEW with A-50U with Shmel-2 E-Band Radar
- Ground Radar with Big Bird D (91N6A) Radar.
No detection.

Expanded: 2 sets of TB2, with MAML and Clean.
- 2 AEW with A-50U with Shmel-2 E-Band Radar
- Ground Radar with Big Bird D (91N6A) Radar.
No detection.

Even more Radar: 2 sets of TB2, with MAML and Clean.
- 2 AEW with A-50U with Shmel-2 E-Band Radar
- Ground Radar with Big Bird D (91N6A) and Bill Board B (9S15M Obzor)
- SU-35S with IRBIS-E PESA (Slot Back)
No detection

We get detection at about 40nm for MAML equipped TB2, about 37nm for clean TB2.

BONUS:

Throwing the most modern Pantsir / SA-22 into the mix, with HOT SHOT E-Band Radar.. detects exactly nothing, surrounded by 4 TB2.

 

[Oublious]

@dBSPL

The only downside ,which some keyboard warriors largely Indians, are arguing furiously, is that

would it stand to the enemy Air Defenses , being Slow as compared to CAS Jets & with Large RCS due to Weapons Load out.

Your Views Plz.

It depends wich airdefence you will use against it, for TB2 is almost impossible to see from long distance because of composite structure. TB2 is for 90 procent composite, Akinci is different story and is not like TB2. Lets assume they are trolling about S-400, what we now is TB2 have fly above the sky near S-400 in Ukraine. Not that close but still did fly close to a S-400 site.

Akinci will have long range weapons as you can see SOM, in short time 2 years ther will be Kuzgun TJ powered with more then 250km range with IIR. Airdefence systems will not deterence against fighters or drone anymore in the future. We have see it in Syria, Karabagh and now in Ukraine. IF you fight against a country with modern airforce, Airdefence will not save you.

 

[EAGLE777]

you'd think in such a over saturated market like the drone market it would be impossible to compete with big Western and Asian players

Yet Turkey has annihilated both markets

real example of R&D and people who clearly know what they are doing

Just as the founder of Pakistan Muhammad Ali Jinnah once said: "Faith, Unity, Discipline" these guys of Bayraktar really believed in their cause and they made it.

 

[EAGLE777]

6 x MAM-L
2 x Bozok
2 x MAM-T
1 x Teber-82
1 x KGK-SİHA-82
1 x SOM-J

With this weapon configuration, it appears that there is over 1.6 tons of weapon payload.

In this case, it is almost certain that the useful load capacity of AKINCI-C will be around 2 tons. Its structural features and wing lifting capacity are already suitable for this. When I said this 2 years ago, I couldn't convince some of my friends.

Does it carry all this payload in one go?

It will be a massacre

Electronic absorption, blunting, jamming or deception are a completely different field of expertise and even without going into that subject,

UCAVs here are low-mass, and almost entirely FRP-based composite component structures. On the other hand, in conventional manned CAS jets, apart from the canopy, taileron and fins, polycarbonate, graphite epoxy laminate etc. or advanced thermoplastic composites are used very little, and aluminum and titanium alloy metallic structures are used.

As far as we know from other systems of BAYKAR(TB-2), AKINCI body and structurals are made of prepreg and carbon fiber reinforced polymeric materials. The said aerospace composites can show very flexible properties at +/- G forces, albeit within some limitations. Although the wingspan is wide, the cross-sectional dimensions are minimal.

The other factor causing the detection difficulty of drones is low cruise speed. Low speed is not a disadvantage in terms of detectability. In addition, UAVs in the air support role do not have to descend to very low altitudes like conventional jets due to the systems and ammunition types they carry. These types of drones don't use high angle of attack. Even in tactical systems the average engagement altitude is probably above 15k ft. The main requirement is patrol time at a level that manned jets can never even come close to.

In fact, the doctrinal approaches and operational systematics of these armed turboprop drones are based on low speed and long endurance. When you examine many systems from different countries, their common feature is that they can fly at very low speeds without going into STALL.

It is very difficult to detect it out of its engagement range, except for some specific radar types and ways. And its compact low noise engine and tiny silhouette make it very difficult to detect with the naked eye too. Due to the advantage of low-mass UAVs based on fiber-reinforced polymers or similar over conventional radars and air defense concepts, many countries are currently working on air defense concepts and systems, specilizied for these UAVs.

For reference, I would like to share with you the results of a simulation with the TB-2:
(12m wingspan, piston engine and normal cruising speed around 80kts. The engagement range of the weapon systems it carries is around 15km)

Long story short neither Indian nor Greek airdefence stand no chance against Akıncı.

 

[Kedikesenfare2]

Can't we use Akinci instead of F16s for terrorist hunts? We would save MILLIONS in the long term...

 

[dBSPL]

Does it carry all this payload in one go?

It will be a massacre



Long story short neither Indian nor Greek airdefence stand no chance against Akıncı.

Yes, in one go. However, the real radical innovation will take place when AKINCIs belonging to the Air Force begin to carry 6-10 AA missiles.

Apart from their traditional mission types, these strategic attack UCAVs(50K ft flight ceiling, over 7500km flight range and +24 hour endurance) will now come to the fore as the element that keeps a certain number and types of munitions/missiles in the air.

Let's assume that you are constantly holding 4 AKINCI and 32 long-range AA missiles in the air; you don't need to lock these missiles over AKINCI. All can be also be used by an AWACS, or other manned fighter jet, or from a frigate or other ground control station.

You can extend the same example with stealth-character ALCM missile types such as SOM-J, or ATMACA/ÇAKIR etc AShMs. It's not just air support missions that we're talking about, but also that they're simply going to be munition trucks on air. It will be your data link width and command-control capacity that determines your how big of a cluster these net-centric capabilities will be.

 

[EAGLE777]

Yes, in one go. However, the real radical innovation will take place when AKINCIs belonging to the Air Force begin to carry 6-10 AA missiles.

Apart from their traditional mission types, these strategic attack UCAVs(50K ft flight flight ceiling, over 7500km flight range and +24 hour endurance) will now come to the fore as the element that keeps a certain number and types of munitions/missiles in the air.

Let's assume that you are constantly holding 4 AKINCI and 32 long-range AA missiles in the air; you don't need to lock these missiles over AKINCI. All can be also be used by an AWACS, or other manned fighter jet, or from a frigate or other ground control station.

You can extend the same example with stealth-character ALCM missile types such as SOM-J, or ATMACA/ÇAKIR etc AShMs. It's not just air support missions that we're talking about, but also that they're simply going to be munition trucks on air. It will be your data link width and command-control capacity that determines your how big of a cluster these net-centric capabilities will be.

This is absolutely amazing i have no words Mashallah!

 

[ESAx]

 

[dBSPL]

Part-2

 

[ziya]

Air to air combat is not suitable for turboprop uavs,but we should upon a new concept with this uavs to detect stealth fighters with infrared detection systems,on a 24 hours base,as stelath fighters have more infrared signature than radar emission

 

[ESAx]

KIZILELMA unmanned Fighter Jet will be suitable for Air to Air combat



AKINCI UCAV's AESA Radar for Ship Self Defense


4 AKINCI UCAVs to carry 32 GOKDOGAN air to air Missiles in the air 24/7 to protect Turkish Navy Warships from Anti-Ship Missiles in the Eastern Mediterranean

France has lent support to Greece in its maritime dispute with Turkiye in the
Eastern Mediterranean


in naval operation there is a requirement for increased warning time against low flying anti-ship missiles that orginate from beyond the horizon of the Ship based Radar

to use UCAV based Radar is a promising solution, because an airborne platform has longer horizon than Ship based Radar that will provide over the horizon detection and tracking capability for Ship self defence

for example the Ship based Radar horizon for a Frigate is 25-30 km

on the other hand AKINCI UCAV can detect anti-ship missile from 100 km away

 

[Oublious]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1551107744584851456

Turkish Ambassador in Bangladesh.
Bangladesh Armed forces have signed a contract not so long ago to purchase TB2. I can not share detail but i can confirm it.