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Akinci & Aksungur and Turkish Unmanned Fighter Aircraft Program

Indonesia
Indonesia doesnt have much issue with Chinese in the EEZs except of a tiny portion of EEZ along Natuna island. Back in time Indonesia has purchased C705 anti-ship missiles and produced some with license. They have bought CH-4, and they might even buy more chinese systems. China mainly harrasses Phillippines, Vietnam, partly Malaysia and slightly disturbs Indonesia.
 
I have the same concern regarding to the Akıncı project but in presented informations it also had PW engine (variant of engine being used in Hurkus trainer) -which is going to be tested- option besides of Ukranian engine, it is clear that project is being in rush but on the R&D part the company should do something to stay alive besides of the production.

That's great news. I hope the mass-production variant of Akinci ends up being with a pair of PW engines (PT6). I am always excited with new technologies and weapons, but I simply can't tell you guys a lie that Ukraine engine is a good idea.
 
Indonesia doesnt have much issue with Chinese in the EEZs except of a tiny portion of EEZ along Natuna island. Back in time Indonesia has purchased C705 anti-ship missiles and produced some with license. They have bought CH-4, and they might even buy more chinese systems. China mainly harrasses Phillippines, Vietnam, partly Malaysia and slightly disturbs Indonesia.
Good info for East China Sea tensions but still a dispute is a dispute no matter of its size always can turn into much bigger if there’s “opportunity” for it
As far as I know Indonesia is (slowly) working on switching her defense industry to western standards
Maybe some weapons aren’t available so they have to do compromise by acquiring chinese(based on russian) missiles/systems
but Indonesia is very important country I can safely bet that as the times goes US will start treating them like India(giving all kind of weapons)
Those CH-4 are good cheap option for surveillance and very limited bombing campaign against counterinsurgency but Akicni is a different class of UAV
Phillippines Vietnam Malaysia are new so I should add in my list of very interested countries(a total of 12)
 
I even doubt if China uses their own WLII for military purposes.
There are a dozen Chinese companies with numerous MALE drone models mainly focused on foriegn markets and when it comes to domestic, it seems the PLA are showing more interest in HALE drone like Soar dragon, divine eagle and near space supersonic WZ-8.
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Indonesia doesnt have much issue with Chinese in the EEZs except of a tiny portion of EEZ along Natuna island. Back in time Indonesia has purchased C705 anti-ship missiles and produced some with license. They have bought CH-4, and they might even buy more chinese systems. China mainly harrasses Phillippines, Vietnam, partly Malaysia and slightly disturbs Indonesia.

Apparently, Indonesia has developed own UAV powered by Rotax engine (which is a popular choice for UAV).
https://www.flightglobal.com/military-uavs/indonesia-rolls-out-indigenous-male-uav/135989.article

Vietnam has their own UAV project
https://thediplomat.com/2015/12/vietnam-reveals-new-drone-for-patrolling-the-south-china-sea/

I don't necessarily disagree with you on China harassing Philippines, but their relationship is more complicated and the military tension between two countries did not stop Philippines from accepting "donations" such as military boats and assault rifles from China. I think Turkey is ahead of those countries in UAV, but it is important to note that they have their own projects going at the moment.

There are a dozen Chinese companies with numerous MALE drone models mainly focused on foriegn markets and when it comes to domestic, it seems the PLA are showing more interest in HALE drone like Soar dragon, divine eagle and near space supersonic WZ-8.
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Has anyone of them managed to sell their drones to overseas customers? I have my doubt about their airworthiness much as other Chinese jets.
 
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Has anyone of them managed to sell their drones to overseas customers? I have my doubt about their airworthiness much as other Chinese jets.
quite a lot actually, but don't wanna go into more details here, you can visit the Chinese section for that.
 
quite a lot actually, but don't wanna go into more details here, you can visit the Chinese section for that.

That's interesting as I have not heard China of delivering turbofan-powered HALE drones to foreign countries. As far I know, China only operates a handful of them. I will check Chinese threads on that. Thank you.
 
That's interesting as I have not heard China of delivering turbofan-powered HALE drones to foreign countries. As far I know, China only operates a handful of them. I will check Chinese threads on that. Thank you.
I thought you were talking about the MALE drones, I don't think the HALE drone are clear for export at the moment.
 
I thought you were talking about the MALE drones, I don't think the HALE drone are clear for export at the moment.

Yes, that's the problem. Obviously, Wing Loong II with service ceiling of 32,500 ft isn't a HALE drone. All export-approved Chinese drones are inferior to Turkish Akinci UAV.

Then again, America doesn't classify their Reaper/Avenger as a HALE drone, but a MALE drone.
 
@SgtGungHo
US does not approve sale of UAVs to every county. It is doubted if Kratos or Valkrie will be sold as well.
Chinese drones are quite cheap, but they have either been operated by inexperienced staff or simply they dont perform well in all conditions. I even doubt if China uses their own WLII for military purposes.
Despite of being "more expensive" (However, the true price of serially produced turkish drones remain unclear, all sales up to now has covered some of ToT - local production, Training, Ground services and unknown amount of ammunition and spare parts, and far from calculation of per unit price due to excessive spending on development and number of production) Turkish drones offer some capability and has been proven in battlefield which is not offered by US or other countries experienced in drone technology to all countries.
I have the same concern regarding to the Akıncı project but in presented informations it also had PW engine (variant of engine being used in Hurkus trainer) -which is going to be tested- option besides of Ukranian engine, it is clear that project is being in rush but on the R&D part the company should do something to stay alive besides of the production.
Turkey had issues regarding to importing engines, you are judging Turkish defense industry entirely from Australian point of view, which can "buy" anything from UK&US even with ToT and without restricted use,however it is not the case for Turkey. Our primary concern is to be sufficient in our own with minimal foreign interference in projects, the secondary one is making profits by mass sale of the drones.
Basic principle, price of an asset is driven by the supply, is there any other country openly supplying drones with strike capabilities in the market? not except of chinese.
Check out the users of Chinese drones it will give some insight.

Indonesia has bought CH-4, morelikely going to produce a modified new variant as Indonesian UAV with some local components -or at least locally produced airframe. Chinese has offered "technical assistance".
Will be similar as Burraq UCAV of pakistan, based on chinese CH-3 but improved-redesigned variant with local systems.

Indonesia is trying to developed local UAV not with Chinese assistance instead with Leonardo S. A for combat management system, delivery and so on, and with Turkish company to assist in integration of weapons system (missile and rocket). Chinese UAV being bought as interim measure for our urgency need, there is ongoing operation in Indonesia.
 
There are a dozen Chinese companies with numerous MALE drone models mainly focused on foriegn markets and when it comes to domestic, it seems the PLA are showing more interest in HALE drone like Soar dragon, divine eagle and near space supersonic WZ-8.
kTk6jyJsh6prF6XpPukt_vQnZe7RRuJ3Hsnku0YpNm6boxZk2sHb3t8czi_tJ8_oB9oBxgakOw_A2rokw-XzK7XcusvqhXM8hkBzmnLhrqo3nhmeOC49MEf2xzo
I rather referred to WLII and CH-4.
China prefers to keep more advanced version for herself.

Chinese UAV being bought as interim measure for our urgency need, there is ongoing operation in Indonesia.
In the times Chinese drone was delivered,it was stated as Indonesian UAV in news, and if i am not mistaken China has offered ToT. So i presumed china would be chosen afterwards. Thanks for the information.
 
I rather referred to WLII and CH-4.
China prefers to keep more advanced version for herself.


In the times Chinese drone was delivered,it was stated as Indonesian UAV in news, and if i am not mistaken China has offered ToT. So i presumed china would be chosen afterwards. Thanks for the information.

Well, there is several program of UAV in Indonesia actually so i can't sure which one who got China assistance, but for Black eagle program the thing is they will use European system as we got cooperation with them for decades in aviation sector

If refer to this news they will use Spanish solution
https://www.bppt.go.id/layanan-informasi-publik/3814-bppt-luncurkan-prototype-puna-male-elang-hitam
 
Turkish company to assist in integration of weapons system (missile and rocket). Chinese UAV being bought as interim measure for our urgency need, there is ongoing operation in Indonesia.
This part is quite interested though and doesnt make up a whole. Interested in Turkish weapons for integration on UAV but buying Chinese drones with chinese weapons for stop-gap solutions. Assuming such close relations to purchase chinese UAV, china wouldnt hesitate to help for integration of their weapons on the Indonesian UAV. Looks like europeans do not allow for this.

Some news state the for the CMS-mission computers-Design a spanish company has couneled-supplied the Indonesian UAV project but you are saying leaonardo, which is the italian. Spain makes more sense considering CASA-IPTN collaborations in the past.
Indonesian officials usually state "foreigners do not intend to provide-share key technologies", i can truly say Turkey -TAI/Roketsan was willing to provide indonesia with the key technologies and even assisting to make their own systems in the future (mainly for software-and some of the hardwares). It will be better to discuss this again in near future after some events.
 
I rather referred to WLII and CH-4.
China prefers to keep more advanced version for herself.


In the times Chinese drone was delivered,it was stated as Indonesian UAV in news, and if i am not mistaken China has offered ToT. So i presumed china would be chosen afterwards. Thanks for the information.

CH 4 and Indonesian Black Eagle UAV is a different drone. We just buy CH4 recently and it has nothing to do with our UAV program that has been started in 2015. We just buy 4 CH 4 and I dont think buying 4 drones is enough to have substantial TOT from them. I can say Indonesia benefit quite much when BTTA3 is chosen by TAI to test ANKA since 2008 and also the latest is Aksungur and the testing is still on going at least until 2018. BTTA3 is under BPPT (Government Research Agency), and it is BPPT that is the head of consortium of Indonesian MALE UAV and contribute in most of the design under PTDI supervision and PTDI itself although contribute in design but mostly do the manufacturing and integration.

You can read more in my thread where there are many information from respectable news that I posted

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pt-dirgantara-indonesia-reveals-its-first-male-uav-prototype.646067/

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And here the explanation coming from BPPT Head and BPPT official website:

Hammam then explained that the initiation of the development of PUNA MALE had been started since 2015 by the Balitbang of the Ministry of Defense (Kemhan).

This was marked by an agreement on the design, needs and objectives (DR&O) of PUNA MALE which would be operated by the TNI, specifically the Air Force (AU).

"The design process begins with preliminary design activities, basic design by making twice the wind tunnel model and its test results in 2016 and 2018," explained Hammam.

After that, Hammam said, it was continued with the making of engineering documents and drawings in 2017 through a budget from the Ministry of Defense Balbang and BPPT.

Then in 2017, a joint agreement was formed with the existence of the Unmanned Aircraft Consortium (PTTA MALE).

The members also consist of the Indonesian Ministry of Defense, namely the Directorate General of Pothan and Balitbang, BPPT, the Air Force (Dislitbangau), the Bandung Institute of Technology / ITB (FTMD), SOEs through PT Dirgantara Indonesia (DI) and PT Len Industri.

Then in 2019, the National Aeronautics and Space Agency (LAPAN) enters the consortium.

Hammam reiterated that in 2019 the manufacturing phase will begin through several stages.

"This step begins with the design structure process, the calculation of the Finite Element Method, the creation of 3D drawings and detailed 2D drawings done by BPPT engineers and supervised by PT Dirgantara Indonesia," said Hammam.

Then the process is continued through making tooling, molding, molding and fabrication with the pre-preg process with autoclave.

In addition, in 2019, a Flight Control System (FCS) will also be produced in Spain.

It is planned that the FCS will be integrated in early 2020, on the first PUNA MALE prototype (PM1) that has been made by BPPT engineers and PT Dirgantara Indonesia who have received training to integrate and operate the control system in the prototype made at PT Dirgantara Indonesia.

Hammam said, 2 prototype units will also be made in 2020 which is planned to be flown and test the strength of the structure at BPPT.

As for the process of certifying military products, it starts this year and is expected to have received a type certificate from the Indonesian Ministry of Defense Feasibility (IMAA) by the end of 2021.

The integration of weapons systems on the prototype PUNA MALE will also be carried out starting in 2020 and is expected to also get a certification of military product types in 2023.

Hammam further stressed his hope that the presence of PUNA MALE is able to answer challenges related to the supervision of the sovereignty of the Republic of Indonesia and able to encourage Indonesia to become a country that not only has superior Human Resources (HR), but also advanced, independent and competitive.

"It is hoped that with this independence PUNA MALE made in Indonesia can fill the needs of the Indonesian Air Force squadron to be able to oversee the territory of the Republic of Indonesia through air rides," concluded Hammam.

Please note, the development of the Drone or PUNA MALE type is indeed one hundred percent carried out by Indonesian children.

PUNA MALE type is planned to be armed with missiles and capable of flying for 24 hours nonstop with a cruising altitude of up to 23,000 ft.

To realize this, the government also formed a consortium consisting of BPPT, Kemhan and the Air Force as users, ITB as a university partner, PT Dirgantara Indonesia as an aircraft manufacturing industry partner, and PT LEN Persero which developed a control and cargo system.

The MALE Combatant flagship program is deliberately designed to strengthen the transfer of key technologies and revitalize the national industries supporting Tier 2, Tier 3 and so on.

The Combat MALE Program is synergized with the ongoing procurement process at the Ministry of Defense, of course, to be able to maximize the benefits of the process.

The estuary is the development of a new defense industry that will have an impact on increasing the movement of the national economy.

The important note in all these processes is related to the Domestic Content Level (TKDN) policy which must be positioned as a strategic policy.

Of course this policy must be carried out consistently to produce key MALE supporting technologies such as Flight Control System technologies capable of Auto Take-Off Auto Landing (ATOL), Mission System, Weapon-platform integration and Composite Technology, Radar SAR, Inertial Navigation System ( INS), Electro-Optics Targeting System (EOTS) and Guidance System.

The key technology was not provided by developed countries, so mastery in supporting industries would have to be pursued on their own.

If the key technology has been mastered, it will be able to Spin Off for application on strategic defense equipment and defense equipment (Alpalhankam).

https://www.bppt.go.id/layanan-informasi-publik/3814-bppt-luncurkan-prototype-puna-male-elang-hitam
 
Does anyone have any resources for Turkey is that of Indonesia's technical support provider ?
I just heard of Spain.
 

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