Ahmadis ( Qadianis ) & Pakistan

[Ehsan]

Just quoting last part from Surat Al-Kaafiroon why not full......

Ayat 1: Say (O Muhammad () to these Mushrikun and Kafirun): "O Al-Kafirun (disbelievers in Allah, in His Oneness, in His Angels, in His Books, in His Messengers, in the Day of Resurrection, and in Al-Qadar, etc.)!

Ayat 2: "I worship not that which you worship,

Ayat 3: "Nor will you worship that which I worship.

Ayat 4: "And I shall not worship that which you are worshiping.

Ayat 5: "Nor will you worship that which I worship.

Ayat 6: "To you be your religion, and to me my religion (Islamic Monotheism)."


In this Surat Allah said to prophet to say it to Kafirs...... Those who not believe in oneness of Allah and Prophet Muhammad has last messenger

I didnt want to make it religious but as you quoted full Ahmadis fully beleive in each and every word of the Quran Prophet Muhammad PBUH as his last messenger Quran as the final Holy Book and the final word from God, face Kabba in Mecca for 5 daily prayers and fo for Hajj and Umrah the only difference is that they believe that Promised Messiah has come while others ait even if supposedly he isnt and you accept another Messiah when he comes that puts every other Muslim in the same rank as Ahmadis. So lets leave it at that ! as LONG AS SOME one reads Kalima or Shahada he or she is Muslim in my opinion.

لَآ اِلٰهَ اِلَّا اللّٰهُ مُحَمَّدٌ رَّسُوْلُ اللّٰهِؕ

 

[Huda]

But Bibi they've been declared Non-Muslims...what more are we planning to do ? Kill them ? Persecute them ? Both of which are already happening !

Let them be a protected minority with equal rights & obligations like any other Pakistani in Pakistan subject to some exceptions should the majority want it.

Otherwise I see no reason to doubt their loyalty to Pakistan !

Agreed ...They should be protected with equal rights & obligations and i never said that they should be killed but still they are non-muslims

 

[aks18]

This is not a religious thread but for your consideration Ahmadis dont have a new view of Islam they believe the Imam Mahdi has come while other Muslims wit for it so even if you dont agree with them you cant call them non muslim unless they bring a new concept out of Islam but the second coming of jesus christ and imam mahdi is an islamic concept

Which Ahmedi Group you belong ??? Lahori Ahmedi Group or Simple Ahmedi group ??? this Imam Mehdi Theory is of Lahori Ahmedi which is very less in numbers while other group believes Gulam Mirza QAdu as last prophet.

 

[Durrak]

I didnt want to make it religious but as you quoted full Ahmadis fully beleive in each and every word of the Quran Prophet Muhammad PBUH as his last messenger Quran as the final Holy Book and the final word from God, face Kabba in Mecca for 5 daily prayers and fo for Hajj and Umrah the only difference is that they believe that Promised Messiah has come while others ait even if supposedly he isnt and you accept another Messiah when he comes that puts every other Muslim in the same rank as Ahmadis. So lets leave it at that ! as LONG AS SOME one reads Kalima or Shahada he or she is Muslim in my opinion.

لَآ اِلٰهَ اِلَّا اللّٰهُ مُحَمَّدٌ رَّسُوْلُ اللّٰهِؕ

Its better to not talk about religion when you don't have correct knowledege about it. I am not reffering to Ahmedis issue but all the questions about religion because a person is fully responsible for his own deeds and by making such statements you can misguide a person who don't know about religion.....So its better to keep away religion from your arguements..

 

[aks18]

I didnt want to make it religious but as you quoted full Ahmadis fully beleive in each and every word of the Quran Prophet Muhammad PBUH as his last messenger Quran as the final Holy Book and the final word from God, face Kabba in Mecca for 5 daily prayers and fo for Hajj and Umrah the only difference is that they believe that Promised Messiah has come while others ait even if supposedly he isnt and you accept another Messiah when he comes that puts every other Muslim in the same rank as Ahmadis. So lets leave it at that ! as LONG AS SOME one reads Kalima or Shahada he or she is Muslim in my opinion.

لَآ اِلٰهَ اِلَّا اللّٰهُ مُحَمَّدٌ رَّسُوْلُ اللّٰهِؕ

Have you read the Book Sirat ul Mehdi ?written by the Messiah of Ahemdis ?? in which he calls him self as Adam some where as MUSA some where as Maryam and some where as Jesus :S

 

[Bratva]

On what basis Ahmedis believe Imam mehdi arrived on earth when there still exist violence on earth?

Ehsan Sahab read ntellectual debates that occured b/w Pir Mehr Ali Shah and Ghulam Mirza Qadiyani.

 

[aks18]

About his pregnancy Mirza writes down in his book that,

“Like Maryam, Christ’s spirit was infused into me and metaphorically I was conceived. At last after several months, not more than ten months, through revelation that I have stated in the part four page. 556 of Braheen-e-Ahmedia, I was made Christ from Mary. In this way I am Ibn e Maryam (son of Mary).”


(Kashti-e-Nooh. P.47. Roohani Khazain V.19. P.50)


These Words are from the book of Messiah of Ahmedis he looks more joker than a MEssiah .. source is also written in the end

Even he CLAIMED OF BEING KRISHNA

“I am the very Krishna.”

(Tazkara P.381)

 

[Fahad Khan 2]

I didnt want to make it religious but as you quoted full Ahmadis fully beleive in each and every word of the Quran Prophet Muhammad PBUH as his last messenger Quran as the final Holy Book and the final word from God, face Kabba in Mecca for 5 daily prayers and fo for Hajj and Umrah the only difference is that they believe that Promised Messiah has come while others ait even if supposedly he isnt and you accept another Messiah when he comes that puts every other Muslim in the same rank as Ahmadis. So lets leave it at that ! as LONG AS SOME one reads Kalima or Shahada he or she is Muslim in my opinion.

لَآ اِلٰهَ اِلَّا اللّٰهُ مُحَمَّدٌ رَّسُوْلُ اللّٰهِؕ

Yes Kailima says Prophet Muhammad S.A.W has last prophet...... So what is Mirza Gulham Ahmed status????
Don't get negative feeling i am just asking for my knowledge ......

 

[Armstrong]

@Oscar @nuclearpak @Aeronaut - A little look into this thread would be much appreciated !

 

[RazorMC]

I believe that if someone refuses to adopt core principles of a certain group or society or religion, then he is fundamentally not a part of that society.

At the same time I also refuse to discriminate against Ahmadis or any other religion for their beliefs. Islam encourages co-existence and Pakistan needs the same open-mindedness it once had. Otherwise we are just some bigots who happen to be blessed with a country.

 

[pk_baloch]

@Oscar @nuclearpak @Aeronaut - A little look into this thread would be much appreciated !

i was just reporting to Mod but u did before me

 

[Armstrong]

i was just reporting to Mod but u did before me

This could become one of those pretty ugly threads !

 

[Fahad Khan 2]

i was just reporting to Mod but u did before me

reporting for what ???

thread tittle is Ahmadis and Pakistan

So @Ehsan has a right to explain and help us to know about Ahmadis people and if we have any misunderstanding help us removing it .....

 

[Mian H Amin.]

ok first thing is, any Pakistani national can join armed forces. despite of religion.
if you would need explanations, i would give you video proofs of Ahmadi got shahadat while fighting talibs.

 

[sur]

Believe it or not Ahmedis are non Muslims! They have changed our religion and are doing shirk!

Shirk????? How so... ??? U don't seem to understand what shirk is... Ahmadis are wrong in taking Mirza Ahmad as messiah & Ghulam Ahmad probably claimed wrong things about himself in his writings too, but that is NOT "shirk" by definition from any angel...

Those who intercede with ppl in graves do Shirk... Just like idol worshippers intercede thru idols...
Like some Brailvis,,, The sin that Allah will never forgive, & forgive anything else if He wanted,,,
So if those who deserves the most, to be declared non-muslim, are grave interceders...

Lets have those declared non-muslims in constitution even before Ahmadis...
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http://www.defence.pk/forums/nation...-allowes-serve-military-vote.html#post3999671
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Idol worshipers also believe in "Oopar Walaa" but believe that idols intercede for them,,, Same is what those so-called muslims do when they seek intercession of people in graves...
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Q:10:18: They worship things beside GOD that possess no power to harm them or benefit them, and they say, "These are our intercessors with GOD!" Say, "Are you informing GOD of something He does not know in the heavens or the earth?" Beyond is He(Pure is He) and high exalted above all that ye associate (with Him)!
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In this Surat Allah said to prophet to say it to Kafirs...... Those who not believe in oneness of Allah and Prophet Muhammad has last messenger

Suran does NOT give that definition of "Kafir" that you wrote... Kafir is one who "rejects"...

If "kafir" is one who rejects what Quran says then let me give you few examples of Kafirs that you are not familiar with:-

Quran says keep wife in ur house till iddat is complete; almost all muslims don't follow that after divorce,, so are "Kafir" since they reject order in Quran & Hadees... Lets declare them all non-muslims...!!!

Prophet used to offer 2 rakats after Asr prayer, almost no muslim do that, lets call them all "kafir"... since they don't follow prophet.!!!

Prophet said husband & wife should give ghusal to deceased spouse; almost no one does that at least in Pakistan; so lets declare them all "kafirs"...!!!

Prophet said do not praise me like christians praised Jesus, & we say "Al-Hamdullillah"(The Praise is to God) but ther are Naatiya-Mehfils all the time & almost NO Mamdiya Mehfil,,, & many Naats are full of Mubalghah bordering to SHIRK... so lets declare them all "Kafirs"

We sunnis believe that messaih has not come yet but shias believe their 12th imam was the messaih... just like that Ahmadis believe Ghulam Ahmad was messiah... so if believing in a different messiah is "Kufr" then lets pass law declaring Shias is "Kafir" too...!!!

Keep on going & u'll end up withh 99% of muslims become "Kafirs" & very few if any will be left...

Like I said before if anyone deserves to be declared Kafir are those who did SHIRK since it is the ONLY sin ALLAH said HE will NEVER forgive & will forgive anything except that... & just as interceding thru idols is SHIRK so is interceding with dead-humans & those in graves... So that makes many Brailvis as "Mushrik" & "Kafir"...

Is this the way u wanna go..??? True "Kafir" is that who "rejects" basics tenants of islam, which are Quran:2:285 + Q:4:136 As lomg as basic tenants are adhered to, other things are always controversial & will remain controversial till the last day(Q:22:17 & 45:17)... We cannot call anyone KAFIR if he adheres to these verses 2:285 & 4:136 ... Thay are all muslims sects,,, as wrong as they might be but still muslim

Yes discrimination with anyone(Ahmadis) in minority cannot be allowed...... But Ahmadis should also stop playing with ISLAM..... everyone has to answer there own part on judgement day...... So Allah may help me and you choosing the right path Ameen....

There are so many sects & all of them are "Playing with ISLAM"... why don't u declare them KAFIR too...???