Ahmadis ( Qadianis ) & Pakistan

[muse]

I believe that if someone refuses to adopt core principles of a certain group or society or religion, then he is fundamentally not a part of that society.

At the same time I also refuse to discriminate against Ahmadis or any other religion for their beliefs. Islam encourages co-existence and Pakistan needs the same open-mindedness it once had. Otherwise we are just some bigots who happen to be blessed with a country.

Outstanding, is there a clearer suggestion of our tribalistic instinct? Think like us, act like us, believe like us, dress like us - Or else - see, why we are silent when Shi'ah are killed or Deobandi or Christians or whatever - we, "fundamentally" do not see ourselves as CITIZENS of country, equal before the law - we CHOOSE fundamentally to see each other as particular religious identities - and yet insist that there is such a thing as Pakistan, as if we know deep down that we are wrong to see our fellow countrymen not as citizens but as members of particular confessional groups, hoping someone will step in and set it right - because we don't have the courage to do so.

 

[Da-Bang]

I think Ahmadis were declared kafirs by government.and hence the discrimination.

If tomorrow some majority government is formed by sunnis they may dexlare shias as kafirs too.

What is the chance of sunnis coming in power and declaring shias as kafir. ?

 

[SQ8]

Shirk?????
Like I said before if anyone deserves to be declared Kafir are those who did SHIRK since it is the ONLY sin ALLAH said HE will NEVER forgive & will forgive anything except that... & just as interceding thru idols is SHIRK so is interceding with dead-humans & those in graves... So that makes many Brailvis as "Mushrik" & "Kafir"...

You have given excellent arguments..
but its better to extrapolate on those..
What is intercede?
How do you intercede?
There are multiple arguments for that..

The definition of Shirk is associating those Qualities unique to Allah with someone/thing else.

Prophet Adam was told all of the names of the angels present by god.. and only god knew all those names ... so if Adam has this quality of God that he was granted knowledge.. is that Shirk?

Angels were asked to bow down before Adam.. was Allah(an-aozubillah) ordering his angels to commit Shirk?

The Prophet has been referred to as Rahmat-ulil-Alameen (blessing for all the realms).. yet Rahmaniyat is a quality associated with Allah(bismillah-ar-rahman ar-raheem).. is that not Shirk by definition.

Such matters are then better left decided by Ulema..NOT MUFTI's.. but Ulema(these days Mufti's parade around like Ulema).
To falsely accuse a Muslim of Shirk and Bidah is a worse crime

Religious discussion only bring out bigotry in us.. I have my opinions against Ibn-Abd-Al wahhabs followers and others who are into "Mowhid".. they may accuse me of being Mushrik or in Bidah.. and the argument would go on.

In the conditions prevailing in Islam.. it would be better then not to indulge in such divisions..and rather try to reconcile... as common opinion may be formed on the basis of the Kalima(which CANNOT be altered in the faith at any cost).
If a deobandi can acsquiese to pray with a bareilvi.. even with disagreements without constantly thinking of him as a Mushrik.. then the problem or disagreements can be solved across the board. Till even that cannot be achieved.. then this country.. along with most Muslims.. are lost.

here, during our trying times as a nation.. its better to avoid religious discussions..
again.. Islam is different from Muslims.. you may discuss Muslims.. but lets not go into theology..
I prepared a lengthy argument with a whole bunch of hadiath and quranic references for a thread elsewhere.. But at this point..its not worth it.
Sunni, Shia.. and so on and so forth.. are all losing their lives in the mess that is Pakistan today.. so its better to face a threat united before we squabble among ourselves.. If this forum cannot represent the best of us.. then we are truly doomed.