Ahmadis in Pakistan

[mikkix]

, .

Hey why are creating sectariance difference by saying someone Taliban,,wahabbi,,e.t.c..
You belieaves in secularism but the way you create sects here it appears that you have some sectarian problem....

the word secularism is itself undefined,,,,
If it means that rights should be given equally to all so islam also said that..
If it means that there is no difference(sects) between peoples so islam also criticize to define themselves to be a sunni,,shia,,,wahabbi e.t.c..
plz tell me what secularism has that islam hasn't...

 

[mikkix]

This is not a theological discussion about whether Ahmadi's are Muslims or not, it is a discussion about whether there is any moral, ethical or even religious justification for the State to discriminate against this community and place restrictions on their speech and ability to practice their faith as they see fit.

I believe that quite clearly there is no moral, ethical or religious justification (the Quran says 'no compulsion in faith') for the discrimination by the State against Ahmadis.

The state should not discriminate on the basis of religion, cast, color, status, regional or sects,,, The video states that this man differentiate the ahmedis with pakistan,,,,thats wrong,,,,
Ahmedis are pakistanis,, as far as terrorists activities are considered nor muslim neither non muslim are saved from such brutal activities so there is no point to create an issue which is not there..

 

[T-Faz]

Hey why are creating sectariance difference by saying someone Taliban,,wahabbi,,e.t.c..
You belieaves in secularism but the way you create sects here it appears that you have some sectarian problem....

the word secularism is itself undefined,,,,
If it means that rights should be given equally to all so islam also said that..
If it means that there is no difference(sects) between peoples so islam also criticize to define themselves to be a sunni,,shia,,,wahabbi e.t.c..
plz tell me what secularism has that islam hasn't...

So Taliban is a sect, when did that happen, and when did I say that we should abandon Islam, I merely want our country to be secular.

As for wahabis, they are the problem that plagues us, we need to work against their ideology.

 

[Bas_tum_Pak]

I Strongly Believe that they are 'non-Muslims', But they are Pakistanis ..

 

[Dr.Evil]

I Strongly Believe that they are 'non-Muslims', But they are Pakistanis ..

Should the Govt. have the power to declare some one as Muslim or Not. - Its none of their business.

Govt. should do its business of providing necessary services to its people, look after them.

Religion is a personal business of the person, no one should interfere with that, Let those people practice their religion whatever way they deem fit.

Its better if Govt. does not poke nose into this subject.

 

[mikkix]

So Taliban is a sect, when did that happen, and when did I say that we should abandon Islam, I merely want our country to be secular.

As for wahabis, they are the problem that plagues us, we need to work against their ideology.

taliban is not a sect,,
you have an issue with taliban becuase talibs are wahabbi???
let me clear you talibans are not only wahabbi,,but deobandi and barelvi too..
I dont want to discuss it but you have an issue with wahabbis,,, plz tell me wht problem do you have with them,,
sir syed ahmed khan belongs to which sect,,,i can named them so many..

 

[mikkix]

So Taliban is a sect, when did that happen, and when did I say that we should abandon Islam, I merely want our country to be secular.

As for wahabis, they are the problem that plagues us, we need to work against their ideology.

you dont need to work any of the ideology..

 

[mikkix]

Should the Govt. have the power to declare some one as Muslim or Not. - Its none of their business.

Govt. should do its business of providing necessary services to its people, look after them.

Religion is a personal business of the person, no one should interfere with that, Let those people practice their religion whatever way they deem fit.

Its better if Govt. does not poke nose into this subject.

sir there is a difference between western world and islamic world,,,
I commented above islam is not religion,,it is a deen....You can read quran.... i will attach you the difference
Islam is not a religion it is a DEEN means the book Holy Quran is a social, economical, judicial and constitutional Book...
None other books are same for e.g Gospel(jewish book) is a book of law( only judicial) with little bit of emphasization on economics and Allah..
Bible is a book which defines Allah but not emphasizes on any law..
Gita and Vedas provides information about God but not emphasizes on any law..

But Quran emphasizes on law(social,economical,constitutional and judicaial) and Defins Allah as none other than..
THATS the issue with the muslim world and western world...
Islam is a constitution too....

 

[Nahraf]

First of all I am very sad to hear about Qadianis being killed in Lahore. The Ahmadis (Qadianis, Mirzais) have been very active in missionary work thus have been drawing attention to themselves from extremist elements. Muslims consider Qadianis as murtids. I don't see ghulat (heterodox) sect like Ismailis (Aga Khani) doing the same so everybody just ignores them. I thought the 1974 National Assembly resolution resolved the issue but both Qadianis and their opponents wants keep the issue alive.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

First of all I am very sad to hear about Qadianis being killed in Lahore. The Ahmadis (Qadianis, Mirzais) have been very active in missionary work thus have been drawing attention to themselves from extremist elements. Muslims consider Qadianis as murtids. I don't see ghulat (heterodox) sect like Ismailis (Aga Khani) doing the same so everybody just ignores them. I thought the 1974 National Assembly resolution resolved the issue but both Qadianis and their opponents wants keep the issue alive.

I hope you are not suggesting that proselytizing by the Ahmadi's should be stopped?

Every religious group should be free to spread their faith as they wish in a peaceful manner.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

sir there is a difference between western world and islamic world,,,
I commented above islam is not religion,,it is a deen....You can read quran.... i will attach you the difference
Islam is not a religion it is a DEEN means the book Holy Quran is a social, economical, judicial and constitutional Book...
None other books are same for e.g Gospel(jewish book) is a book of law( only judicial) with little bit of emphasization on economics and Allah..
Bible is a book which defines Allah but not emphasizes on any law..
Gita and Vedas provides information about God but not emphasizes on any law..

But Quran emphasizes on law(social,economical,constitutional and judicaial) and Defins Allah as none other than..
THATS the issue with the muslim world and western world...
Islam is a constitution too....

That's all fine, but it avoids the main issue being discussed here, of whether it is acceptable for the State (or individuals) to openly discriminate against a community and restrict their speech and rights.

As far as I can tell Islam does not condone the above and in fact talks about equality and justice for all and the need for 'no compulsion in religion'. The laws against Ahmadi's violate all those tenets of Islam, and the ironic thing is that those who support such prejudice and discrimination against Ahmadi's justify it by using Islam.

Attributing such prejudice and discriminatory laws to Islam is an insult to Islam.

 

[Nahraf]

I hope you are not suggesting that proselytizing by the Ahmadi's should be stopped?

Every religious group should be free to spread their faith as they wish in a peaceful manner.

I have seen that in last ten years a consensus have built up in Pakistani Muslim psyche that murtid Qadianis are out of control. Now the violence has been escalated by extremist elements. Qadianis should avoid missionary work and keep low profile in Pakistan. May be they should try to emulate what Ismailis are doing in Pakistan.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

As for wahabis, they are the problem that plagues us, we need to work against their ideology.

I have pointed this out before, please refrain from broad comments about any particular sect or community. Not every Wahabbi is an extremist or believes so. If there are specific examples of prejudice preached by certain leaders, then point them out and criticize them, not the entire community/sect that may or may not agree with those particular points of view.

 

[FreekiN]

Ahmadi religion = Scientology version of Islam. lol

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I have seen that in last ten years a consensus have built up in Pakistani Muslim psyche that murtid Qadianis are out of control. Now the violence has been escalated by extremist elements. Qadianis should avoid missionary work and keep low profile in Pakistan. May be they should try to emulate what Ismailis are doing in Pakistan.

Why do you say that a community spreading its faith is 'out of control'? That, typically, is what almost every faith does. Mainstream Islam has the 'tableeghi jamaat'. Are they 'out of control'?

The problem here is not the missionary work of the Ahmadis, which they are completely entitled to, but the attitudes of prejudice and intolerance that result in violence against them because of their faith.

Your comment is like that of blaming the victim, and letting the culprit go free. We should be condemning the prejudice and violence against Ahmadis, not calling for even more restrictions (they should stop/reduce missionary work) on them.