Ahmadis in Pakistan

[kugga]

No, the topic was treatment handed out to them, social isolation and bigotry amongst the masses and not concerned entirely with the religious argument.

they are not socialy isolated just a few posts before my friend told that there is a considerable amount of Qadiyaanis in are army.... No army of state includes socialy isolated people.....


they are treated well as the above statement of mine proves this they have full rights of expression the only reason left is their religious freedom and in other words why they are not considered Muslims and this has been discussed over and over in this thread....

and how do you define bigotry amongst the masses may be you think only that person is intellectual who has read 3000 books??
or a graduated person can understand things well??
please elaborate your point about bigotry

 

[Meesna]

they are not socialy isolated just a few posts before my friend told that there is a considerable amount of Qadiyaanis in are army.... No army of state includes socialy isolated people.....

Oh boy, back to square one….

You take one example of just a few people and try to generalise it ..what about numerous documented laws, prosecution, persecution, hate material, hate speeches, sponsorship of government of such organisations and activities, role of media (how many Ahmadis are allowed to come on media and express their point of view? But are declared wajibul-qatl/murtad openly on media) and so on…

 

[kugga]

Oh boy, back to square one….

You take one examples of just a few people and try to generalise it ..what about numerous documented laws, prosecution, persecution, hate material, hate speeches, sponsorship of government of such organisations and activities, role of media (how many Ahmadis are allowed to come on media and express their point of view? But are declared wajibul-qatl/murtad openly on media) and so on…

In short you are talking about why they declared non-muslims and why they cannot use Muslim guestures....

BTW I've seen them on tv. defneding their point of view even on one channel A scholar called for a munaazira with ahmadis let's see what will happen now..... Don't just remain in nut shell.. because they are declared non-mulsim they cannot use Islamic gestures but other wise they are preaching their religion freely and why they are not on channels because ppl don't want to see them it's just a case of demand and supply

 

[Meesna]

In short you are talking about why they declared non-muslims and why they cannot use Muslim guestures....

BTW I've seen them on tv. defneding their point of view even on one channel A scholar called for a munaazira with ahmadis let's see what will happen now..... Don't just remain in nut shell.. because they are declared non-mulsim they cannot use Islamic gestures but other wise they are preaching their religion freely and

Amazing answer. How many times Ahmadis have appeared over years? Once? It took killing of 90+ of theirs to get to that.

Every time there is an Ahmadi issue they have a right to present their point of view instead of others speaking on their behalf. Nothing to do with what people want to see or not..and when did you conduct a survey on what people like to see? Many don't like to see the same politician faces day in and out but we still get to see them.

why they are not on channels because ppl don't want to see them it's just a case of demand and supply

So people have isolated them by not allowing them to speak. You accept this much.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

In short you are talking about why they declared non-muslims and why they cannot use Muslim guestures....

BTW I've seen them on tv. defneding their point of view even on one channel A scholar called for a munaazira with ahmadis let's see what will happen now..... Don't just remain in nut shell.. because they are declared non-mulsim they cannot use Islamic gestures but other wise they are preaching their religion freely and why they are not on channels because ppl don't want to see them it's just a case of demand and supply

you really have zero knowledge about Ordinance XX, law forbids them to preach their religion & doing so will get them to Jail

 

[DaRk WaVe]

means all clauses in ordinance XX are in disagreement with basic tenets of Islam??
Am I understanding it right please elaborate??

yes, according to Ordinance XX Ahmadis cannot

1. Preach their belief.
2. Call themselves a Muslim.
3. Recite Holy Quran.
4. Say Muslim salutation "Aasalam-o-Alaikum".
5. Recite "Kalima Tayyeba" i.e. There is no one worthy of worship except Allah, Muhammad is His Prophet.
6. Call for Prayers (Adhan).
7. Call their places of worship as "Masjid".
8. Cannot posses anything (badge/book etc.) on which Quranic Verses or Ahadith (sayings of Prophet Mohammad [peace be upon him]) are printed.
9. cannot call themselves Muslims
10. All these are punishable acts & you being an Ahmadi will go to jail...

 

[Hammy007]

Amazing answer. How many times Ahmadis have appeared over years? Once? It took killing of 90+ of theirs to get to that.

and yes, ahmedi issue, was not even an issue back then.

90+ ahmedis on one perticular day and compare it to "war on terror" gifted 100+ of pakistanis dying each day!!

 

[Meesna]

and yes, ahmedi issue, was not even an issue back then.

It certainly has been an issue since 1974 but they are never allowed to present their view. Even the 1974 National Assembly proceedings are kept secret from public.

90+ ahmedis on one perticular day and compare it to "war on terror" gifted 100+ of pakistanis dying each day!!

Ahmadi persecution began long before war on terror. If state did not persecute Ahmadis then we could equate the two.

 

[apophenia]

I look forward to a list of such countries from your side who have banned them but have an otherwise good human rights track record.

do some introspection before you point fingers…when it comes to Human Right track record iss Hamam Mein Sab Nange Hain…

 

[apophenia]

Can you present evidence of any wrong doings instead of just shooting in the air? Particularly about your 9/11 and Israeli links claims? .

Malcolm X responded to the assassination of JFK with very strong words, he said "the chickens came home to roost". Malcolm said that JFK deserved what he got based on his foreign policy and other political reasons. What I meant was that this is the same case of politics and Jammat inserting themselves in a position that gives off the impression that they support oppressors as opposed to the oppressed moslims of the world. and i never claimed about their Israeli links.

Many prominent Muslim leaders have joined eid celebrations at the White house with butcher of Iraq and Afghanistan President Bush. Similarly in other European countries prominent Muslim leaders remain in touch with and attend ceremonies with the likes of Tony Blair and Gordon Brown. This does not show their collaboration in those atrocities. When you are a citizen of a country you have to deal with its officials with due etiquettes despite disagreeing with their policies. The Palestinian MPs in Israel even take the Israeli oath as they don’t have a choice living under the Israeli system. You can't blame the citizens of a country for following the civilised norms of a society.

Are you sure cannot see the difference between the two situations? jamaat inviting Shmaoun Peres in their party and feeling honored while in gaza innocent are being slaughtered AND leaders from different country getting together ?

The British part is long gone and was in a totally different era. It's hard to phantom exactly what were the circumstances then. It's totally unfair to judge Ahmadis in today's Pakistan for what is perceived to have happened long time ago especially when Ahmadis have been part and parcel of the Pakistan movement. If anything you should be using your grudge against all those Mullahs who opposed Pakistan movement and even now are supporting thsoe terororist who are causing chaos and bloodshed in the country as that's more recent and relevant to Pakistan. Though I don’t' see any such condemnation from your part.

well agreed that we shouldn't talk about this history but we can always debate on the matter because its well documented...anyways I never tried to pass my judgment on Ahmadis’ in Pakistan. I don’t give a flying **** about someone’s believes but yes I do have grudge against those who are exploiting a sad situation for personal gratification. Ahmadi community will not benefit from Jammat leader spouting state sponsored terrorism or the new born Ahmadi apologist spouting foul play all over internet. If someone has reservation against Law, that can be debated in civilized manner rather the slandering everyone. And as for my part, do go through the posts I have made on this board you will get the answer.

Any citizen of any country should be concerned about safety of its country and should be loyal to it in exchange for the security and rights the state provides to the citizen. This is despite a citizen's disagreement with the state policies overseas. Not every issue can be addressed at all times. All of us do that; we address issues which are relevant at any time that does not mean we agree with other atrocities. .

Totally agree with your POV but the Isreali forces killing innocent Palestinians or US bombing everything that stands against them or shipping’s carrying relieve goods being stopped by force are all relevant matters. If the Jammat elders are pushing the official policy in terms of extremism in Muslims, terrorism and US military then they should have moral courage to speak against the atrocities being committed on Muslims in the name of war against terror too.

Its also depends upon how much media exposure one gets and what sort of questions an anchor chooses to ask. You may want to contact him and get his views on other atrocities.

well Mr.Naeem Mahdi after his address, was asked if he was concern about the safety of his and his community as response to the official stance, he responded "I am a believer in God and if they do it, i consider myself that I have given my life for a good cause"..wtf..well he didn’t lose his life but the some ahmadi in Lahore did felt the wrath..moreover the Jammat does run a satellite channel so there is no shortage of media exposure if one has to raise their voice against unjust.what people of this world heard was Mirza Masroor friday sermon of 02-Jan-09 about ongoing massacre in Gaza at that time. At the end of his sermon, Mirza Masroor decided to condemn the deeds of the “criminal” freedom fighters in Gaza, and remind them that the only solution to their problems is to believe in the charlatan of Qadian. If you doubt I can arrange the post the his Friday sermon over here..

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

and yes, ahmedi issue, was not even an issue back then.

90+ ahmedis on one perticular day and compare it to "war on terror" gifted 100+ of pakistanis dying each day!!

I believe it was Rahm Emmanuel, Obam Chief of Staff, who was quoted as saying that 'a crisis is a terrible thing to waste'.

 

[Meesna]

Bus posters promote positive image of Islam

HOUNSLOW Muslims are launching a leaflet and bus campaign to combat misconceptions about their faith.

The Ahmadiyya Muslim Community in Hounslow are introducing a doorstep leaflet distribution campaign and placing messages on the sides of buses across the borough, to "address some common misconceptions about Islam".

From June 21, buses in the Hounslow area will be carrying the message "Muslim for Loyalty, Freedom & Peace". A website has also been specially launched to compliment the campaign, Home - Love For All Hatred For None

Presidents of the Hounslow branch of the association, Mr Abid Nasir and Mr Zaheer Khan said: "The aim of the publicity campaign is to reassert true Islamic principles of peace and to counter the extremists who hijack the faith for political ends."

The programme is said to continue for 10 years, "until all homes in the area have been reached".

Alan Keen MP for Feltham and Heston, said: "I fully support this message of peace and harmony. This is a perfect example of a community in action promoting peace and goodwill in the community."

Colin Ellar, Mayor of Hounslow said: "No one can object to such beautiful messages of peace, this will be welcomes by all. I look forward to seeing the buses in Hounslow."

Hounslow families in mourning after Pakistan mosque attacks....

Bus posters promote positive image of Islam - Hounslow Chronicle

 

[kugga]

yes, according to Ordinance XX Ahmadis cannot

1. Preach their belief.
2. Call themselves a Muslim.
3. Recite Holy Quran.
4. Say Muslim salutation "Aasalam-o-Alaikum".
5. Recite "Kalima Tayyeba" i.e. There is no one worthy of worship except Allah, Muhammad is His Prophet.
6. Call for Prayers (Adhan).
7. Call their places of worship as "Masjid".
8. Cannot posses anything (badge/book etc.) on which Quranic Verses or Ahadith (sayings of Prophet Mohammad [peace be upon him]) are printed.
9. cannot call themselves Muslims
10. All these are punishable acts & you being an Ahmadi will go to jail...

All of the above are acts of Muslims so again you are saying why they are not allowed to live like muslims.... Why they are not considered Muslims because they are not and once again all of the above issues have been discussed again and again in this thread.... sorry I have to repeat myself...

According to ordinance XX they cannot preach but I was talking about the real world they are preaching and they preach and no one is stopping them may you ppl don't have time to walk on streets or meet others in Pakistan that's why you don't know

 

[RescueRanger]

All of the above are acts of Muslims so again you are saying why they are not allowed to live like muslims.... Why they are not considered Muslims because they are not and once again all of the above issues have been discussed again and again in this thread.... sorry I have to repeat myself...

According to ordinance XX they cannot preach but I was talking about the real world they are preaching and they preach and no one is stopping them may you ppl don't have time to walk on streets or meet others in Pakistan that's why you don't know

The white stripe is there for a reason. It is there to remind every would be bigot, that minorities have the right to practice their belief's without fear of persecution. This is also a right granted to them in accordance with the "Original" constitution of the nation.

Our leaders need to enforce the rights of minorities more firmly. We need to lead by example.

 

[T-Faz]

Deen-e-kafir fikro tadbeer’e jihad
Deen-e-mullah fi sabil-illah fasad​

This is what is happening.