Ahmadinejad wins election

[gambit]

I'm hoping your right, there's something very sinister about these protests its almost like an revolution that replaced the Shah of Iran 30 years ago. I think the main plan for the US and Israel to replace the Iotollah and put some puppet for Iran in order to stop Iran to require Nukes.

This, makes it easy for both America and Israel to concentrate their attacks on one Nuclear Armed country in that region.

Inshallah Iran will be strong and come out of this new dilemma undefeated as well as emerging to be another nuclear power state.

Mmmm...Guess that mean we can now spin conspiracies on how the Soviets engineered that one instead of genuine Iranian anger at the US.

 

[ARSENAL6]

Iranians on the street causing violence failed to understand that US-Zion-EU axis is exploiting their act to undermine their long term national freedom. Did Iranian street anarchist think it through what they are asking for?? If their dream come true they will replace current system with a puppet dictator of US-Zion-EU axis. Perhaps, and Iraqi can explain to them how self destructive and repressive that regime could be. Forget about freedom, their life will be at mercy of Pentagon and M16.

Once dust settles, these western interferences will have serious consequences on US wish for any talk.

Perhaps, Obama had already conclude the eventuality that Iran nuclear ambition is non negotiable. And only thing they will try is regime change by planting people like Musavi and exploit people grievances. Grievances, people from any country have, specialy from developing one.

LOL Obama already realise that too he was just pleasing his fellow cabinates.




Gambit Quit with AMerican Arse kissing you silly Indian.

 

[Desertfalcon]

Street Anarchist? American-Zionist conspiracy? Look, I know that many here will have a different opinion than I do, but I think the reaction to the "election" in Iran by the people in the streets is just an expression of their frustration at the lack of Iranian democracy. The President of Iran doesn't actually lead the country, the Ayatollah Ali Khamenei does. There was no "real" election in Iran, just a show. Yes, the Israeli lobby and their influence in my country is great, but that has as much to do with the Cold War conflicts of the last century as it does the "Jewish lobby" To say that those who wish to have real democracy in Iran are somehow part of a Zionist, or American, or EU conspiracy is wrong. I personally think my country is too pro-Israel, but that will probably never change. We are committed to the development of more representative governments in the Middle-East and a greater emphasis on human rights and economic development, and we are committed to a Palestinian State. If Iran would join with those in the region who are working for the same, instead of openly supporting the terrorists of the region who wish to destroy those efforts, we would have much better relations with each other.

 

[freeman]

Iranians on the street causing violence failed to understand that US-Zion-EU axis is exploiting their act to undermine their long term national freedom. Did Iranian street anarchist think it through what they are asking for?? If their dream come true they will replace current system with a puppet dictator of US-Zion-EU axis. Perhaps, and Iraqi can explain to them how self destructive and repressive that regime could be. Forget about freedom, their life will be at mercy of Pentagon and M16.

Once dust settles, these western interferences will have serious consequences on US wish for any talk.

Perhaps, Obama had already conclude the eventuality that Iran nuclear ambition is non negotiable. And only thing they will try is regime change by planting people like Musavi and exploit people grievances. Grievances, people from any country have, specialy from developing one.

...............................................

 

[idune]

Street Anarchist? American-Zionist conspiracy? Look, I know that many here will have a different opinion than I do, but I think the reaction to the "election" in Iran by the people in the streets is just an expression of their frustration at the lack of Iranian democracy. The President of Iran doesn't actually lead the country, the Ayatollah Ali Khamenei does. There was no "real" election in Iran, just a show. Yes, the Israeli lobby and their influence in my country is great, but that has as much to do with the Cold War conflicts of the last century as it does the "Jewish lobby" To say that those who wish to have real democracy in Iran are somehow part of a Zionist, or American, or EU conspiracy is wrong. I personally think my country is too pro-Israel, but that will probably never change. We are committed to the development of more representative governments in the Middle-East and a greater emphasis on human rights and economic development, and we are committed to a Palestinian State. If Iran would join with those in the region who are working for the same, instead of openly supporting the terrorists of the region who wish to destroy those efforts, we would have much better relations with each other.

There is democracy and there is exploiting people grievances to give illusion of democracy by using locally hired stooges. Look at Karzai, Maleki, late Shah of Iran and many more. Only to advance US-Zion-EU agenda with so called democracy shrink wrap. People from most developing countries know the differences very well.

You can tell typical western propaganda line all you want, with so many examples over many decades, US has zero credibility when it talks about democracy, HR. Be that Obama or any other administration. Please try to live with that.

 

[gambit]

There is democracy and there is exploiting people grievances to give illusion of democracy by using locally hired stooges. Look at Karzai, Maleki, late Shah of Iran and many more. Only to advance US-Zion-EU agenda with so called democracy shrink wrap. People from most developing countries know the differences very well.

You can tell typical western propaganda line all you want, with so many examples over many decades, US has zero credibility when it talks about democracy, HR. Be that Obama or any other administration. Please try to live with that.

Now I know where my tax money went. I guess TARP must include Iran as a 'troubled asset' to bail out.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

If Iran would join with those in the region who are working for the same,

Who is working for the 'development of more representative governments in the Middle-East and a greater emphasis on human rights' in the region?

Egypt? Saudi Arabia? UAE? Jordan?

All major US allies, and all ruled by dictatorships.

The US may in principle be committed to all you said, but it is only interested in seeing its principles implemented where the status quo may not be in its favor.

The Iranian government is by miles more 'representative' than any of the governments mentioned above, but when was the last time the US media went into a tizzy over Mubarak's oppression of the popular Muslim brotherhood political workers and leadership? Where was the outrage and non-stop coverage of the atrocities and suppression of dissent and speech by the above mentioned entities?

Wolf Blitzer was in a tizzy over one dead body on the streets of Tehran, "BREAKING NEWS ... WARNING WARNING" he was screeching before cutting to the image. How many political opponents do you think Mubarak has had jailed, tortured and killed?

With all due respect, US pontifications about 'rights and democracy' are hogwash. The only thing the US cares about is protecting its interests, and if that can be done through pushing for 'democracy', all well and good. Otherwise any dictator or oppressive autocracy willing to serve US interests will do just fine.

 

[wtf]

With all due respect, US pontifications about 'rights and democracy' are hogwash. The only thing the US cares about is protecting its interests, and if that can be done through pushing for 'democracy', all well and good. Otherwise any dictator or oppressive autocracy willing to serve US interests will do just fine.

I think US gets it more wrong on the initial story than being actively greedy. Look at this story for example.

Ayatollah is actually doing the right thing for the country, but New York Times (a paper I have some respect for) actually thinks that it is a sign of weakness and predicts the Ayatollah will be overthrown.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/16/world/middleeast/16cleric.html?hp
...
Few suggest yet that Ayatollah Khamenei’s hold on power is at risk. But, analysts say, he has opened a serious fissure in the face of Islamic rule and one that may prove impossible to patch over, particularly given the fierce dispute over the election that has erupted amid the elite veterans of the 1979 revolution. Even his strong links to the powerful Revolutionary Guards — long his insurance policy — may not be decisive as the confrontation in Iran unfolds.
...

 

[Desertfalcon]

You make a good point Agnostic. I was going to try and post a good rebuttal, but I can't think of one. We did the same in supporting President Zia-ul-Haq as well. We can be hypocrites unfortunately.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

You make a good point Agnostic. I was going to try and post a good rebuttal, but I can't think of one. We did the same in supporting President Zia-ul-Haq as well. We can be hypocrites unfortunately.

Which is not to say that other nations do not do the same - Pakistan's support for the Taliban regime was also in pursuit of its national interests for example.

And this may not have been your intent at all, but some Americans get self righteous about the whole 'support for representative government and rights etc. etc.' business, and my point was that the US conducts its affairs primarily out of self interest - just like most other nations, and is not some paragon of altruism and 'values'.

The whole show over Iran in the media is just annoying, for the reasons I mentioned above, hence my rather harsh comments.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I think US gets it more wrong on the initial story than being actively greedy. Look at this story for example.

Ayatollah is actually doing the right thing for the country, but New York Times (a paper I have some respect for) actually thinks that it is a sign of weakness and predicts the Ayatollah will be overthrown.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/16/world/middleeast/16cleric.html?hp
...
Few suggest yet that Ayatollah Khamenei’s hold on power is at risk. But, analysts say, he has opened a serious fissure in the face of Islamic rule and one that may prove impossible to patch over, particularly given the fierce dispute over the election that has erupted amid the elite veterans of the 1979 revolution. Even his strong links to the powerful Revolutionary Guards — long his insurance policy — may not be decisive as the confrontation in Iran unfolds.
...

Yes that's an interesting take on Khamenei's decision.

The BBC analyst in Tehran said much the same as well. The suggestion being that his support for Ahmedinejad during the campaign and after the election cast him in too partial a light for such an exercise to be credible.

Most of the US media focused on analogies to the 1979 revolution, but my mind kept flashing back to the overthrow of the popularly elected Mossadegh by a CIA covert operation, through similar street protests and a demolition of Mossadegh's credibility through disinformation and carefully orchestrated events.

 

[Kasrkin]

Check out the 1st picture on post 47, this is probably the Iranian military base the protestors were attacking (and they’re certainly attacking as opposed to ‘peacefully’ demonstrating). This would explain a lot. I wonder why these people were stupid enough to go to and try and scale an official zealot-military base with sticks and stones and bottles etc, what did they expect would’ve happened? The military guards would’ve opened fire even if it was an ordinary day in which unknown people were trying to violently break through. I think the western media has been a little unfair while referring to his particular event.

 

[Durran3]

President Obama makes a statement about the current situation

 

[pakomar]

It’s the real democracy. At least US should be happy they both have one thing common that these both countries have democracy.

 

[Al Khwarizmi]

Senior Iranian cleric calls regime “illegitimate”
Hot Air Blog Archive Senior Iranian cleric calls regime “illegitimate”

posted at 8:46 am on June 17, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
Send to a Friend | Share on Facebook | printer-friendly

The Iranian crisis took a promising turn overnight as the senior ayatollah in Iran blasted the regime and its machinations over the election. Ayatollah Hossein Ali Montazeri, at one time under consideration to replace Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini as Supreme Leader, wrote on his website that the official results were so ludicrous that no one could believe them. He attacked the Guardian Council itself, saying that they had proved themselves illegitimate through their clumsy attempt to grasp power:

Supporters of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and his main rival in the disputed presidential election, Mir Hossein Mousavi, massed in competing rallies Tuesday as the country’s most senior Islamic cleric threw his weight behind opposition charges that Ahmadinejad’s re-election was rigged.

“No one in their right mind can believe” the official results from Friday’s contest, Grand Ayatollah Hossein Ali Montazeri said of the landslide victory claimed by Ahmadinejad. Montazeri accused the regime of handling Mousavi’s charges of fraud and the massive protests of his backers “in the worst way possible.”

“A government not respecting people’s vote has no religious or political legitimacy,” he declared in comments on his official Web site. “I ask the police and army personals (personnel) not to ’sell their religion,’ and beware that receiving orders will not excuse them before God.”

Montazeri had fallen out of grace with the Guardian Council years ago. He had the temerity (and bad timing) to criticize the human-rights abuses of the Khomeini regime while Khomeini was alive, which prompted Khomeini to push Montazeri out and put Ali Khamenei in his place. The Guardian Council had him placed under house arrest for his dissent a few years ago, but it has not kept Montazeri from speaking his mind, nor has the Guardian Council taken steps to strip him of his status as an eminence grise.

His dissent at this time would not be unexpected, but perhaps the strength of his argument might be. Montazeri certainly doesn’t hold much back in this statement, accusing the Guardian Council and the regime of stupidity, illegitimacy, and un-Islamic practice. About the only way he could make it worse is by accusing them of having pork luaus in Tehran.

The protestors will certainly take heart from Montazeri’s words, but we will see whether his exhortation to the police and the Revolutionary Guard “not to sell their religion” and to refrain from oppression have any real effect. Those who agreed with Montazeri before now probably no longer work in those jobs, and those who remained likely are the “true believers” in the regime. At this point, though, Montazeri’s statement at least gives dissenters some religious basis, which could boost morale and keep the movement in motion.