Ahmad Shah Durrani's place in Pakistan's history

[ravi kiran]

Emotional fool! The History says otherwise. Marathas became defeatist post 1920s and with the advent of Gandhi. They lost the political power first and then economic power gradually to non-marathas. As a result, Siva Sena came about. Siva Sena is the manifestation of extreme inferiority complex and their hooliganism too.

Emotional fool??? let me tell you one incident. this happened when Yashwantrao Chavan was Defence minister of India.

Yashwantrao Chavan, happened to pass through the town of Panipat once on his way from Punjab to Delhi. He stopped there and went straight to 'Kaala Aam', the place where the historic battle of Panipat was fought. The memorial of Maratha warriors stood there in one of the farms. It was a rough structure in black stone. Yashwantraoji sat down in front of the memorial and picked up a handful of the soil. A poet at heart, he could not control his emotions and tears rolled down his cheeks.
After letting his heart out, Yashwantraoji said to those around him, “Friends, this is the holy land. This is the place where about a lakh Maratha warriors demonstrated how to fight the enemy when the country is invaded. Each of the families in Maharashtra has lost at least a brave man here. This soil has turned holy with their blood.”

 

[Truth Finder]

Emotional fool??? let me tell you one incident. this happened when Yashwantrao Chavan was Defence minister of India.

Yashwantrao Chavan, happened to pass through the town of Panipat once on his way from Punjab to Delhi. He stopped there and went straight to 'Kaala Aam', the place where the historic battle of Panipat was fought. The memorial of Maratha warriors stood there in one of the farms. It was a rough structure in black stone. Yashwantraoji sat down in front of the memorial and picked up a handful of the soil. A poet at heart, he could not control his emotions and tears rolled down his cheeks.
After letting his heart out, Yashwantraoji said to those around him, “Friends, this is the holy land. This is the place where about a lakh Maratha warriors demonstrated how to fight the enemy when the country is invaded. Each of the families in Maharashtra has lost at least a brave man here. This soil has turned holy with their blood.”

I will say again that you are an emotional fool.

Read some history books on Marathas by J. N Sarkar, R.C. Majumdar, Mr. Duff and MR. Sardesai. You will find that Marathas even led Anti- colonial movement till 1920. After that Gandhi appeared and the whole power centre shifted to the North.

 

[Bornubus]

.....................................

Terror and psychological impact of Afghans and Rohillas on Marathas

Ahmad Shah Abdali by Ganda Singh page 236

This is as ridiculous as the folklore that Pathan started to wear Women cloth Salwar Kamiz bcZ of the Terror Of Hari Singh Nalwa
-----------------------------------------------------------



The twenty-first century, the Wali of Swat confirmed that the above was indeed a fact:

The following is the gist of an open letter written by Miangul Aurangzeb, the present Wali of Swat, to the Taliban when the Taliban were preaching and enforcing strict dress and conduct codes for the women in the areas that fell under their control.

"At the outset I want to record that you all must love me very much as you have decided not to take over my property in Swat unlike those you have taken over of other landed families. I am therefore emboldened to believe that I have the privilege of sharing some historical facts for you to know about and I urge you to absorb the same before you continue your campaign of moral policing, especially when it comes to the manner of dressing and code of conduct for women.

The Sikh army of Maharaja Ranjit Singh, under the leadership of Hari Singh Nalwa came to the Frontier in the 1820's and swiftly conquered our ancestors. It is the only time in recorded history that our people were ruled over by foreigners. The locals were so utterly terrified of the Sikh army that they used to hide every time the Sikhs came into view. Those that decided to resist were met with ruthlessness. During this time, the word was spread around that the Sikhs did not harm elderly people, women and children and that the local men who did not wish to earn wrath of the Sikhs should wear the garb of Punjabi women, which was the Salwar-Kameez. At that time in our history both men and women alike, wore only a single-robe garment (similar to that worn by the Arabs) and the Sikhs would not harm any man either when wearing the Salwar-Kameez.

So you see, our men happily adopted the garb of Punjabi women since they were too terrified to stand up and they have adopted the garb as being theirs' ever since. I am very intrigued to see that you are following in the footsteps of your ancestors by wearing the adopted Punjabi women's garb as your own, but now go around preaching and coercing our women as to how they should be living their lives! I suggest that take a deep look inside yourselves, given this historical perspective."

Sincerely,

Miangul Aurangzeb, Wali of Swat

 

[Samandri]

This is as ridiculous as the folklore that Pathan started to wear Women cloth Salwar Kamiz bcZ of the Terror Of Hari Singh Nalwa
-----------------------------------------------------------



The twenty-first century, the Wali of Swat confirmed that the above was indeed a fact:

The following is the gist of an open letter written by Miangul Aurangzeb, the present Wali of Swat, to the Taliban when the Taliban were preaching and enforcing strict dress and conduct codes for the women in the areas that fell under their control.

"At the outset I want to record that you all must love me very much as you have decided not to take over my property in Swat unlike those you have taken over of other landed families. I am therefore emboldened to believe that I have the privilege of sharing some historical facts for you to know about and I urge you to absorb the same before you continue your campaign of moral policing, especially when it comes to the manner of dressing and code of conduct for women.

The Sikh army of Maharaja Ranjit Singh, under the leadership of Hari Singh Nalwa came to the Frontier in the 1820's and swiftly conquered our ancestors. It is the only time in recorded history that our people were ruled over by foreigners. The locals were so utterly terrified of the Sikh army that they used to hide every time the Sikhs came into view. Those that decided to resist were met with ruthlessness. During this time, the word was spread around that the Sikhs did not harm elderly people, women and children and that the local men who did not wish to earn wrath of the Sikhs should wear the garb of Punjabi women, which was the Salwar-Kameez. At that time in our history both men and women alike, wore only a single-robe garment (similar to that worn by the Arabs) and the Sikhs would not harm any man either when wearing the Salwar-Kameez.

So you see, our men happily adopted the garb of Punjabi women since they were too terrified to stand up and they have adopted the garb as being theirs' ever since. I am very intrigued to see that you are following in the footsteps of your ancestors by wearing the adopted Punjabi women's garb as your own, but now go around preaching and coercing our women as to how they should be living their lives! I suggest that take a deep look inside yourselves, given this historical perspective."

Sincerely,

Miangul Aurangzeb, Wali of Swat

Source and Scan of letter?.......by the way Swat was not conquered by Sikhs, they didnt even made any attempt to go as far as Swat.

Also Shalwar Kameez is dress of Afghans/Pashtuns, dress of Punjabi women is choli lehanga

 

[ravi kiran]

I will say again that you are an emotional fool.

Read some history books by on Marathas by J. N Sarkar, R.C. Majumdar, Mr. Duff and MR. Sardesai. You will find that Marathas even led Anti- colonial movement till 1920. After that Gandhi appeared and the whole power centre shifted to the North.

The Third Battle of Panipat was in this sense the last straw that virtually crushed strong Maratha nationalism. Seen as a military or political event, it was a common everyday event in those times when rulers engaged in internecine warfare to establish their supremacy. Seen as a psychological turning point, it crushed Maratha hope and aspiration to dominate over the country. Maratha pride was crushed at Panipat but it did not completely die out. It resurfaces time and again at the slightest promise of success. One has to only look at the drama surrounding the shift of Y. B. Chavan from Maharashtra to Delhi to appreciate this bitter fact. Brandishing a sword, symbolic of that of Shivaji, he moved to Delhi as if it was a recapture. The critical point in this drama is that the Maratha sense of pride and invincibility, assailed by their defeat at Panipat, suddenly surfaced again.

Maharashtra is a state within India but its name itself demonstrates its legacy of a past when the prospect of dominating India kindled strongly in the Maratha mind and personality. Literally, Mahar-ashtra means the nation of the Marathas. Unlike other states of India, Maharashtra is unique in incorporating its sense of pride as a nation inscribed in its name.

One way to appreciate and understand the consequences of the Panipat defeat on the Maharashtrian mind and psyche would be to recognise the duality that has since become a feature of their existence as a people. On one hand, they carry a strong sense of pride and a hope of domination. On the other, they also carry a strong sense of being overwhelmed and besieged. This has bound their psyche into a psychological cage. This uncomfortable situation is pathetic but it has been a part of Maratha personality which they have not been able to grow out of.

The other feature of the Maharashtrian personality is a sense of pride which was assailed by the defeat at Panipat but not entirely put down. Thus, when Raj Thackeray gives a call that Marathi should be the lingua franca within Maharashtra or that all those who have come to live in Maharashtra should communicate in Marathi, he is merely harping on the theme of Maratha pride. For him, as for a common Maharashtrian, the dream of political domination outside Maharashtra may not be realisable in the present but at least the assertion of pride in the region’s greatness must be protected and promoted. Historical experience of a people has a unique role in shaping their psyche and personality. As the Maratha case so eloquently explains, the peculiar combination of a historical defeat and undying sense of pride continues to shape contemporary life and developments.

 

[Bornubus]

Source and Scan of letter?.......by the way Swat was not conquered by Sikhs, they didnt even made any attempt to go as far as Swat.

Also Shalwar Kameez is dress of Afghans/Pashtuns, dress of Punjabi women is choli lehanga

Is someone by that name ever existed ,i am not even Sure nor do i know what wali is.

Note:Swat may not be conquered by Sikhs,but it was open for Sikhs to Raid,IMO they successfully Raided SWAT during their Heydays

 

[Samandri]

Emotional fool??? let me tell you one incident. this happened when Yashwantrao Chavan was Defence minister of India.

Yashwantrao Chavan, happened to pass through the town of Panipat once on his way from Punjab to Delhi. He stopped there and went straight to 'Kaala Aam', the place where the historic battle of Panipat was fought. The memorial of Maratha warriors stood there in one of the farms. It was a rough structure in black stone. Yashwantraoji sat down in front of the memorial and picked up a handful of the soil. A poet at heart, he could not control his emotions and tears rolled down his cheeks.
After letting his heart out, Yashwantraoji said to those around him, “Friends, this is the holy land. This is the place where about a lakh Maratha warriors demonstrated how to fight the enemy when the country is invaded. Each of the families in Maharashtra has lost at least a brave man here. This soil has turned holy with their blood.”

Some battles impart long lasting effect on psyche of a nation. For example Afghans never fully recovered from trauma of the defeat in first battle of Panipat at the hands of Mughals. Pakistani nation's psyche is still damaged from defeat in 1971.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Where the Maratha's failed the Sikhs succeeded.

However Maratha's were the only major Indian naval power and capable of keeping colonial navies at bay.

Sikhs being a land power were overran by the British eventually.

 

[Truth Finder]

The Third Battle of Panipat was in this sense the last straw that virtually crushed strong Maratha nationalism. Seen as a military or political event, it was a common everyday event in those times when rulers engaged in internecine warfare to establish their supremacy. Seen as a psychological turning point, it crushed Maratha hope and aspiration to dominate over the country. Maratha pride was crushed at Panipat but it did not completely die out. It resurfaces time and again at the slightest promise of success. One has to only look at the drama surrounding the shift of Y. B. Chavan from Maharashtra to Delhi to appreciate this bitter fact. Brandishing a sword, symbolic of that of Shivaji, he moved to Delhi as if it was a recapture. The critical point in this drama is that the Maratha sense of pride and invincibility, assailed by their defeat at Panipat, suddenly surfaced again.

Maharashtra is a state within India but its name itself demonstrates its legacy of a past when the prospect of dominating India kindled strongly in the Maratha mind and personality. Literally, Mahar-ashtra means the nation of the Marathas. Unlike other states of India, Maharashtra is unique in incorporating its sense of pride as a nation inscribed in its name.

One way to appreciate and understand the consequences of the Panipat defeat on the Maharashtrian mind and psyche would be to recognise the duality that has since become a feature of their existence as a people. On one hand, they carry a strong sense of pride and a hope of domination. On the other, they also carry a strong sense of being overwhelmed and besieged. This has bound their psyche into a psychological cage. This uncomfortable situation is pathetic but it has been a part of Maratha personality which they have not been able to grow out of.

The other feature of the Maharashtrian personality is a sense of pride which was assailed by the defeat at Panipat but not entirely put down. Thus, when Raj Thackeray gives a call that Marathi should be the lingua franca within Maharashtra or that all those who have come to live in Maharashtra should communicate in Marathi, he is merely harping on the theme of Maratha pride. For him, as for a common Maharashtrian, the dream of political domination outside Maharashtra may not be realisable in the present but at least the assertion of pride in the region’s greatness must be protected and promoted. Historical experience of a people has a unique role in shaping their psyche and personality. As the Maratha case so eloquently explains, the peculiar combination of a historical defeat and undying sense of pride continues to shape contemporary life and developments.

Now, I think we should stop . And, stop your emotions. Historians and Thinkers do not agree with you. You have no idea of the Marathas post 1761. Read some books and then talk. Marathas were defeated for their Hubris. They also came back strong soon , if not stronger. History is filled with such instances. But, none behaves like a crybaby like you. Marathas lost their political and economic control over other states after 1920s and they never got it back. So is this frustration in the 21st century.

 

[Bornubus]

The Third Battle of Panipat was in this sense the last straw that virtually crushed strong Maratha nationalism. Seen as a military or political event, it was a common everyday event in those times when rulers engaged in internecine warfare to establish their supremacy. Seen as a psychological turning point, it crushed Maratha hope and aspiration to dominate over the country. Maratha pride was crushed at Panipat but it did not completely die out. It resurfaces time and again at the slightest promise of success. One has to only look at the drama surrounding the shift of Y. B. Chavan from Maharashtra to Delhi to appreciate this bitter fact. Brandishing a sword, symbolic of that of Shivaji, he moved to Delhi as if it was a recapture. The critical point in this drama is that the Maratha sense of pride and invincibility, assailed by their defeat at Panipat, suddenly surfaced again.

Maharashtra is a state within India but its name itself demonstrates its legacy of a past when the prospect of dominating India kindled strongly in the Maratha mind and personality. Literally, Mahar-ashtra means the nation of the Marathas. Unlike other states of India, Maharashtra is unique in incorporating its sense of pride as a nation inscribed in its name.

One way to appreciate and understand the consequences of the Panipat defeat on the Maharashtrian mind and psyche would be to recognise the duality that has since become a feature of their existence as a people. On one hand, they carry a strong sense of pride and a hope of domination. On the other, they also carry a strong sense of being overwhelmed and besieged. This has bound their psyche into a psychological cage. This uncomfortable situation is pathetic but it has been a part of Maratha personality which they have not been able to grow out of.

The other feature of the Maharashtrian personality is a sense of pride which was assailed by the defeat at Panipat but not entirely put down. Thus, when Raj Thackeray gives a call that Marathi should be the lingua franca within Maharashtra or that all those who have come to live in Maharashtra should communicate in Marathi, he is merely harping on the theme of Maratha pride. For him, as for a common Maharashtrian, the dream of political domination outside Maharashtra may not be realisable in the present but at least the assertion of pride in the region’s greatness must be protected and promoted. Historical experience of a people has a unique role in shaping their psyche and personality. As the Maratha case so eloquently explains, the peculiar combination of a historical defeat and undying sense of pride continues to shape contemporary life and developments.

No doubt Marathas were Brave Warriors , fierce and loyal to their Mother land,they quickly recovered from battle of Panipat sadly they were betrayed by their own people and the faulty policies of Peshwa

 

[Zibago]

Ranjit Singh was Changez Khan to Punjab,s muslims

 

[ravi kiran]

Some battles impart long lasting effect on psyche of a nation. For example Afghans never fully recovered from trauma of the defeat in first battle of Panipat at the hands of Mughals. Pakistani nation's psyche is still damaged from defeat in 1971.

i agree. 68 years of Independence and we are yet to see Marathi prime minister. This, to a considerable extent, explains contemporary Maharashtrian politics. the running theme of regional Maharashtrian politics has been a feeling of being in a siege. being overwhelmed by others.

 

[ghoul]

If you read "History of Punjab" by S.M.Lateef (Who is more biased in favour of Sikhs while little negative about Afghans in his narration), there is details about battles of all Sikh misals. I would post it at some another time but you will notice that Sikh misals have lost most of the battles against Afghans in Punjab and their success rate increases with approach of Shah Zaman period. In fact during time of Ascension of Shah Zaman, Afghans had already lost Punjab to Sikhs and his military expeditions in Punjab, though successful, were not fruitful and they couldnt recover it. Zamzama was not lost to Bhangi misl in any battle, Ranjeet Singh cooperated with him. Afghans had occupied Lahore in 1798 and installed ruler of Kasur as governor but Sikhs occupied it again when Afghans left Punjab. That was the reason for failure of Afghan rule of Punjab, their forces were spread out and thin across a large empire and had to fight with external enemy like Persia, with internal rebellions like in Khorasan and Kashmir, with deadly insurgency in Punjab and civil war among Afghans. Powerful Pashtun tribes were independent and were neither paying taxes nor they were providing troops. Sikhs proved to be too persistent foes, had advantage of being natives and had support of local population. The only support Afghans got in Punjab, were from their own ethnic kinsmen long settled in Punjab like those of Kasur , Maler Kotla, Sirhind and Multan. When Sikhs arrived in Pashtun belt, they faced similarly persistent resistance that they had once carried out against Afghans in Punjab.

Zamzama - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.

 

[Samandri]

Is someone by that name ever existed ,i am not even Sure nor do i know what wali is.

Note:Swat may not be conquered by Sikhs,but it was open for Sikhs to Raid,IMO they successfully Raided SWAT during their Heydays

There was a single Sikh member who was posting this fake made up letter on various forums and blogs, others then forwarded it. It was also posted on PDF by that Sikh and some Indian forums were quoting the thread here as a source. The entire history of Sikh empire and early 19th century is documented, no raid into Swat took place even though Sikhs did venture into Wazirstan once from Bannu. The passage "Hari singh nalwa's name was used by Pathan mothers to hush their kids" is indeed mentioned in some books on history of Sikhs but the shalwar kameez bit is purely creativity of an internet troll. This passage that " the mothers of XYX nation used to hush their kids with ABC name" is used by many nations for their notables in history, to signify the terror factor. If you ask me , Hari Singh was a fearless general but generally Sikhs were not exactly roaming around in Pakhtunkhwa without fear. They suffered very heavy casualties in frontier and it was a costly occupation. Defeat and death of Hari singh nalwa in battle of Jamrud, caused drastic decrease in morale of Sikhs and they decided to give up on attempt of ruling frontier districts through direct rule. After Nalwa's defeat, Sikhs handed over the authority to local chiefs again.

 

[Bornubus]

There was a single Sikh member who was posting this fake made up letter on various forums and blogs, others then forwarded it. It was also posted on PDF by that Sikh and some Indian forums were quoting the thread here as a source. The entire history of Sikh empire and early 19th century is documented, no raid into Swat took place even though Sikhs did venture into Wazirstan once from Bannu. The passage "Hari singh nalwa's name was used by Pathan mothers to hush their kids" is indeed mentioned in some books on history of Sikhs but the shalwar kameez bit is purely creativity of an internet troll. This passage that " the mothers of XYX nation used to hush their kids with ABC name" is used by many nations for their notables in history, to signify the terror factor. If you ask me , Hari Singh was a fearless general but generally Sikhs were not exactly roaming around in Pakhtunkhwa without fear. They suffered very heavy casualties in frontier and it was a costly occupation. Defeat and death of Hari singh nalwa in battle of Jamrud, caused drastic decrease in morale of Sikhs and they decided to give up on attempt of ruling frontier districts through direct rule. After Nalwa's defeat, Sikhs handed over the authority to local chiefs again.

Neighter i am Sikh nor i have seen any such thread on PDF moreover i am not claiming any such nonsense