Ahmad Shah Durrani's place in Pakistan's history

[KingMamba]

Adina Beg i Don't know much about him and i am not sure he was Even Mughal as you said

He was Punjabi but raised by Mughals.

 

[Samandri]

Adina Beg i Don't know much about him and i am not sure he was Even Mughal as you said

Dina Arain: the master ‘double game’ player - Newspaper - DAWN.COM

 

[Bornubus]

Yes he was Mughal governor but native of punjab.

I know that he was the governor of Lahore and very treacherously man tried to Double crossed All

 

[Kabira]

I disagree Sikhs were actually a secular state under Ranjeet which is why Punjabi Muslims supported them. Also Shah Zaman plundered Punjabi Muslims which led to loss of support to Afghans. Overall though Ranjit Singh was smart and used the opportunity to gather support across religious lines. Marathas on the other hand were Early Hindutvas which is something modern day hindutvas openly state. As for British they promoted Christianity amongst lower castes but also allowed open competition hence Arya Samaj and other groups also operated along with Muslim groups. It was actually due to British policy that Muslims in the region had a net increase by the 1941 census. In fact ironically all of Ranjeet Singhs own tribe the Sansis converted to Islam during this period. Ultinately though Brits would not have gained a foothold had Marathas won so none of this would have occurred had Marathas won at Panipat which is something many historians agree on as ultimately Marathas were the only force that could challenge them. In fact Wellington the general who would end up defeating Napoleon rated Maratha armies above France's (he also ended the Marathas and Tipu). So if Marathas won at Panipat they would extend their domain to Kandahar and be in a good enough position to crush the only opposition left, the British in Bengal.

Not entirle true, i am not saying sikhs were not secular. But not every muslim suppoted them, certainly not those from who lands were taken away by sikhs. From British gazzeter of gujranwala its clear that at least local muslim tribes like chathas, bhattis, lodike and tarrar suported British against Sikhs.

They did that to reclaim their lands which British granted them after winning wars against sikhs.

 

[Bornubus]

Hmm so he was Arian an agriculturist tribe/caste just like Jats

Not entirle true, i am not saying sikhs were not secular. But not every muslim suppoted them, certainly not those from who lands were taken away by sikhs. From British gazzeter of gujranwala its clear that at least local muslim tribes like chathas, bhattis, lodike and tarrar suported British against Sikhs.

They did that to reclaim their lands which British granted them after winning wars against sikhs.

How can you say those chattha ,Bhatti were Muslims unless its Cleary mentioned on that Gazetteer..... These are jat and Rajput clans in India

 

[jaatram]

Marathas lost 3rd battle at panipat ...... because they couldn't accommodate jats. Had Marathas kept their promise to jaats things would have turned out a bit different after Panipat.

 

[Samandri]

I. Also Shah Zaman plundered Punjabi Muslims which led to loss of support to Afghansl.

Muslims of India were expecting Shah Zaman to repeat the sucesses like his grandfather, I posting news articles of British news papers of that time when shah zaman was on his march towards Delhi on invitation of Tipu Sultan.

Sat 19th March 1796

Asiatic Mirror 17th February – The Afghan army of Zaman Shah has defeated the combined armies of the Sikhs and the Marathas near the River Jumbu. This is Zaman’s second major victory.

He is continuing his march on Delhi and has published a proclamation of his intention to replace the (deposed) King of Delhi and assume control of the Mughal Raj.

The Marathas under Sindhia wrested administrative power from the former Grand Mughal Shah Allum a few years ago and assumed those powers themselves. Shah Allum is now about 72 years old. He became blind five years ago.

Zaman’s present expedition is to discipline the Hindu Marathas and restore the fallen Mughal monarchy to its former full Powers.

The chief imports of Delhi are horses, fruit and cashmere shawls, which arrive by caravan from Kabul. Red and black carnelians are abundant.

There is a 90 mile canal that has been cut through solid rock, 25 ft wide and deep. It comes through Paniput to Delhi and permits the irrigation of a huge area where the production of food for the city is done.

Sat 19th May 1798

In early April, the Afghan leader Zaman Shah was at Lahore.

He is displeased with the recent agreements Governor-General Shore made with our puppet Grand Mughal Saadat Ali Khan at Lucknow which put that officer fully under our control.[7]

He is expected to enter India and the only places along the Ganges valley that produce sufficient revenue for him to meet the expenses of his huge army are at Lucknow or Benares.

Sat 1st Dec 1798

Zaman Shah is the Afghan leader who sits on our northwest frontier and asserts an intention to elevate the Grand Mughal to his former status. His presence requires a respectable Company force be maintained opposite him. He has some Muslim friends amongst the native Princes.

Gulam Mahomed, leader of the Rohillas, who submitted to us in 1794, has just returned from a Hajj and, on his way back, visited Tippoo at Seringapatam. He then lived briefly at Mysore before returning to Rohilcund.

It is Gulam’s Rohillas who have been insulting the Nabob Vizier and destabilising what is left of the Mughal Raj.

Sat 12th Jan 1799

Zaman Shah has arrived on the frontiers of India from Afghanistan with an army of 50,000 men. On 18th November 1798 he had arrived at Peshawar.

He sent Wasadar Khan with a strong force across the Jhelum and engaged the Sikhs before Gujerat. The Sikhs drew back, apparently surrendering Gujerat to the Afghans whose minimal discipline evaporated in an orgy of plundering. This allowed the Sikhs to return and deal a fatal blow to the Afghan forces. Wasadar Khan was injured and a good many of his men killed. The entire army broke and fled back the way it had come.

When Zaman Shah found out he beheaded both Wasadar and his son. The replacement Vizier recommended Zaman return to Kabul but he has since reportedly arrived at Lahore and is said to be intent on coming on to Delhi although how he will traverse the Punjab is a nice question.

Sat 16th Feb 1799

On 26th December or 3rd January Zaman Shah withdrew from Lahore and returned to his own country around Kabul to confront a rebellion of his brothers, Mahmud and Firose, who enjoy the protection of the Persian court. As soon as he left the Sikhs reoccupied Lahore.

Afghanistan | A Peoples' History 1793 – 1844 from the newspapers
@save_ghenda

 

[KingMamba]

Not entirle true, i am not saying sikhs were not secular. But not every muslim suppoted them, certainly not those from who lands were taken away by sikhs. From British gazzeter of gujranwala its clear that at least local muslim tribes like chathas, bhattis, lodike and tarrar suported British against Sikhs.

They did that to reclaim their lands which British granted them after winning wars against sikhs.

Did Ranjeet take their land? There is a big time skip from his reign to British defeat of last Sikh raja. I agree with some Muslims helping Brits defeat Silhs later which is true.

 

[Kabira]

Hmm so he was Arian an agriculturist tribe/caste just like Jats


How can you say those chattha ,Bhatti were Muslims unless its Cleary mentioned on that Gazetteer..... These are jat and Rajput clans in India

Because they are jat and rajput muslim clans in west punjab and they are different from Indian rajput and jat clans. And its clearly mentioned in gazzeter. You will hardly find any lodike, chatha and tarar jats among Indians, because these are 95% or more native to west punjab. Bhatti rajput is more spread out clan because its very ancient. But bhatti rajputs in gujranwala are also different and native to punjab.

 

[KingMamba]

Muslims of India were expecting Shah Zaman to repeat the sucesses like his grandfather, I posting news articles of British news papers of that time when shah zaman was on his march towards Delhi on invitation of Tipu Sultan.

Sat 19th March 1796

Asiatic Mirror 17th February – The Afghan army of Zaman Shah has defeated the combined armies of the Sikhs and the Marathas near the River Jumbu. This is Zaman’s second major victory.

He is continuing his march on Delhi and has published a proclamation of his intention to replace the (deposed) King of Delhi and assume control of the Mughal Raj.

The Marathas under Sindhia wrested administrative power from the former Grand Mughal Shah Allum a few years ago and assumed those powers themselves. Shah Allum is now about 72 years old. He became blind five years ago.

Zaman’s present expedition is to discipline the Hindu Marathas and restore the fallen Mughal monarchy to its former full Powers.

The chief imports of Delhi are horses, fruit and cashmere shawls, which arrive by caravan from Kabul. Red and black carnelians are abundant.

There is a 90 mile canal that has been cut through solid rock, 25 ft wide and deep. It comes through Paniput to Delhi and permits the irrigation of a huge area where the production of food for the city is done.

Sat 19th May 1798

In early April, the Afghan leader Zaman Shah was at Lahore.

He is displeased with the recent agreements Governor-General Shore made with our puppet Grand Mughal Saadat Ali Khan at Lucknow which put that officer fully under our control.[7]

He is expected to enter India and the only places along the Ganges valley that produce sufficient revenue for him to meet the expenses of his huge army are at Lucknow or Benares.

Sat 1st Dec 1798

Zaman Shah is the Afghan leader who sits on our northwest frontier and asserts an intention to elevate the Grand Mughal to his former status. His presence requires a respectable Company force be maintained opposite him. He has some Muslim friends amongst the native Princes.

Gulam Mahomed, leader of the Rohillas, who submitted to us in 1794, has just returned from a Hajj and, on his way back, visited Tippoo at Seringapatam. He then lived briefly at Mysore before returning to Rohilcund.

It is Gulam’s Rohillas who have been insulting the Nabob Vizier and destabilising what is left of the Mughal Raj.

Sat 12th Jan 1799

Zaman Shah has arrived on the frontiers of India from Afghanistan with an army of 50,000 men. On 18th November 1798 he had arrived at Peshawar.

He sent Wasadar Khan with a strong force across the Jhelum and engaged the Sikhs before Gujerat. The Sikhs drew back, apparently surrendering Gujerat to the Afghans whose minimal discipline evaporated in an orgy of plundering. This allowed the Sikhs to return and deal a fatal blow to the Afghan forces. Wasadar Khan was injured and a good many of his men killed. The entire army broke and fled back the way it had come.

When Zaman Shah found out he beheaded both Wasadar and his son. The replacement Vizier recommended Zaman return to Kabul but he has since reportedly arrived at Lahore and is said to be intent on coming on to Delhi although how he will traverse the Punjab is a nice question.

Sat 16th Feb 1799

On 26th December or 3rd January Zaman Shah withdrew from Lahore and returned to his own country around Kabul to confront a rebellion of his brothers, Mahmud and Firose, who enjoy the protection of the Persian court. As soon as he left the Sikhs reoccupied Lahore.

Afghanistan | A Peoples' History 1793 – 1844 from the newspapers
@save_ghenda

Interesting the plunder of Gujrat was actually what I was referencing but according to this it seems that was not by his command and he punished the officer whose forces plundered the city. This did not mention however Persians intention to invade Herat which you have mentioned before played a part in his return.

 

[Bornubus]

Because they are jat and rajput muslim clans in west punjab and they are different from Indian rajput and jat clans. And its clearly mentioned in gazzeter. You will hardly find any lodike, chatha and tarar jats among Indians, because these are 95% or more native to west punjab. Bhatti rajput is more spread out clan because its very ancient. But bhatti rajputs in gujranwala are also different and native to punjab.

Wrong

We have whole villages of chattha jats in India and Bhatis are Rajuputs in Other parts of India while they are Sikhs in Punjab

 

[Kabira]

Did Ranjeet take their land? There is a big time skip from his reign to British defeat of last Sikh raja. I agree with some Muslims helping Brits defeat Silhs later which is true.

Sikhs did defeat all those tribes chief one by one and toke their lands. It happened in period of between 1770-1805. After Adina died, sikh misls united. There was strugle between muslims chiefs and sikhs in those decades.

 

[Bornubus]

Marathas lost 3rd battle at panipat ...... because they couldn't accommodate jats. Had Marathas kept their promise to jaats things would have turned out a bit different after Panipat.

Same applies to Jats of Bharatpur ---- they became enemy of Rajputs by continuously encroaching their land

 

[Kabira]

Wrong

We have whole villages of chattha jats in India and Bhatis are Rajuputs in Other parts of India while they are Sikhs in Punjab

Very few as i said coming from British sources. Doubt they have anything to do unless they are sikh chatha who migrated from Gujranwala. So you will not find them outside Indian punjab. Sikhs is religion not caste/tribe. Same thing apply to bhatti sikhs.

Edit: But waraich muslim chief of Gujrat actually was with sikhs or become ally of them. Even though waraich is another jatt clan entirely native to west punjab, but many non-muslim waraich converted to sikhsm also and became sikh chiefs.

 

[Samandri]

Interesting the plunder of Gujrat was actually what I was referencing but according to this it seems that was not by his command and he punished the officer whose forces plundered the city. This did not mention however Persians intention to invade Herat which you have mentioned before played a part in his return.

If you read the full report in the link i have given, it seems there was great enthusiasm among Indian muslims in anticipation of shah zaman invasion. And Rohilla nawab of rampur even started a war against British in anticipation of of Shah zaman's invasion.

Persia supported the rebels against shah zaman , and invaded Afghanistan in 1798