Ah memories! :D

[lem34]

Yaar no one listens to juniors like me. Its your problem cos you want to be tankthink and my take is the powers to be dont want you. But then I suppose its pakistani forum lol

 

[VCheng]

Yaar no one listens to juniors like me. Its your problem cos you want to be tankthink and my take is the powers to be dont want you. But then I suppose its pakistani forum lol

LOL!

I am fine where I am. I have a paid subscription till February, which I may or may not renew.

It is not for me to divine who the powers that be are, and what they might think.

I can always be banned with a click of a mouse if that is what they decide!

 

[lem34]

LOL!

I am fine where I am. I have a paid subscription till February, which I may or may not renew.

It is not for me to divine who the powers that be are, and what they might think.

I can always be banned with a click of a mouse if that is what they decide!

But hey I didnt realise that tanks couldnt be banned, but think about it if you were a tank I suppose you would have to put some decent articles and I dont mean cut and paste that we all do. I mean original thought?

 

[VCheng]

But hey I didnt realise that tanks couldnt be banned, but think about it if you were a tank I suppose you would have to put some decent articles and I dont mean cut and paste that we all do. I mean original thought?

You tell me:

Mutual Blackmail: Economic Treaty Organization Between Afghanistan, Pakistan and India | Pakistan Defence

I will put up the content of my posts in comparison to anybody's here.

 

[lem34]

You tell me:

Mutual Blackmail: Economic Treaty Organization Between Afghanistan, Pakistan and India | Pakistan Defence

I will put up the content of my posts in comparison to anybody's here.

You are pushing an open door here mate.

 

[Manticore]

at one time , the forum was primarily a mil. forum--- [my total posts in members club would be no more than 2% i suppose] -- we had more than 5 active mil. professionals from pak side , coupled with several western professionals -- regarding void , i can give you an example , check the thread , pak requirement for navy helicopter--- as a researcher , i have known of the nh for over a year, while i was scrolling -- sir fatman took into consideration the cost factor and okayed it-- it was penguin [probably one of the 2 navy experts here] who actually factored in the size restrictions of pn frigates--- thats the difference a professional of that field makes.


over the years some more subforums are constructed , which need people who are inrellectuals -yes..... and they need to be recognised and promoted -the war on terror subforum is a great service to pakistan , as mastaan sahib said, media is a weapon-- however the mil. field for which this forum was built on also needs professionals-- active ones who can provide input on the lines of sir murad, jabbar,xman,zraviour to name a few


vcheng , i was not referring to you-- i dont build an impression just by reading 20 odd posts from a person-- and frankly ive not reads many posts from you-- i place sir mastaan at a very high regard , so much so that i remember once bossman accused me of being a multiple id of sir mastaan as i was strongly alligned with his pov--- so if sir mastaan says you are good you most definately are-- however ive found some of your posts giving the impression that pakistan, pakistanees as a whole have no hope -- this is not what the message should be from a thinktank-- 80% of the people logging in here are young pakistanis-- they need hope and a direction from intellctuals like yourself


i am about to end my residency , so i am not that young anymore-- however , i have a different style-- i believe the impact of images [after ive gone through different sites myself] is far more on the young minds rather than 30 sentences long posts-- our young in my opinion have less attention spans as compared to us

gubbi , thankyou for your kind comments!

 

[VCheng]

..........................- however ive found some of your posts giving the impression that pakistan, pakistanees as a whole have no hope -- this is not what the message should be from a thinktank--...................

Thank you for that informative post, but please allow me to clarify:

My stance is clearly that "pakistan, pakistanees as a whole have no hope...." UNLESS THEY CHANGE THEIR WAYS OF THINKING AND DOING THINGS.

(Sorry for shouting.)

Sadly, nobody pays attention to the latter part.

I will say again, if the same insanity prevails, there is no hope.


==================================

I will give you an example:

I said: "the LS430 is better than the S63, Rolls or Bentley as a pure highway cruiser on a US interstate."

What he heard: "the LS430 is better than the S63"

His response: "i dont know what you smoke, dude....but whatever it is, i'd love to sample on it."


Typical.

I rest my case.

 

[MastanKhan]

The TT or its leaders? Or both? I'm giving democracy a chance.



The thing is we have mechanisms in place for the TT to fix itself. Why don't you campaign to rejoin the TT? Then Campaign to lead the TT if you can do a better job? That is democracy, if you got what it takes, step up. VCheng shared a PM of his, perhaps he should have campaigned a bit too to influence the votes. You know who the constituency is, why don't you win it fair and square rather than ask us to take extra-constitutional steps?



We tried, but through words, not through enforcement. More than anything my avatar, represents Freedom and at every point and turn I harp on about the importance of Pakistanis valuing Freedom. For me, if I were to make changes in the TT, there is also a much favorable processed recourse that Fatman has put into the constitution this time around. Quit the Admin post and join in like a normal person.

Ab main Musharraf toh hoon nahi, Chief bhi khud, President bhi khud, karlo jo karna hai.


As I said, your critique controversial but you loyalties have never been in question for me.


Now this is where I disagree with you, I'm hopeful you're without hope. There is no such thing as a benevolent dictator. I can do a lot of things for the good, I do feel so. But absolute power corrupts no matter who it is.



My suggestion still stands. The Blue ones, have a constitution, processes, team structure. So tell me your complete plan, something comparable in detail to Fatman's work and I will back you up.

Asim,

I appreciate this post very much----. One time during my TT tenure---I suggested that you may induct fresh TT members on 3 -6 months basis. That would have given the oppurtunity to assess their capabilities and participation rather than inducting them and then they become 'PEHALWANS'----.

It is an inherent part of human psychology ( in most cases )---if there is no sword hanging over their heads---people stop performing---now as democracy is a function of freedom to operate freely---so is firing someone from their jobs for incompetence also the most important part of that package.

There is a parliament in democracy and then there are also selected members in the presidents cabinet / advisory panel / the ministers which are hand picked for their capabilities and not for their election by voter process. For that you have the mods and admins.


Asim----in order for you to conquer the hill---you ought to have blood on the slopes----. I don't see any blood on the slopes---if there is no blood---people don't cherish their position. When the president sees his team go lax and sees them not doing their jobs---he doesn't go for a democratic process---he brings in his enforcer---he brings in his game changer---a player of his choice who can show them how to lead from the front---gets those back on track who want to be leaders and takes those out who want to stay ordinary---.
This what happens at my job---this is what happens at our corporate level---at the state level---at the govt level---.

You know---in the 'democratic' united states the congressman has a two years term only----so all his life, he is on his toes fighting for the people of his constituency---the fear of losing his job keeps him working harder and harder all the time.

And you know what----if the a position gets vacated---either through death or resignation or criminal offence---that seat doesnot go back on the election block---then the governor nominates hios candidate for the remaining period of the term.

 

[VCheng]

This is a true story:



Every time I drink a glass of orange juice, I am taken back to Lahore in the early 80s, when I was a student there. I had gone to pick up someone from the bus station and had arrived early, so had a bit of free time. Feeling thirsty, I asked a rehri wala to make a glass of freshly squeezed orange juice. He proceeded to make one, throwing the rinds into a heap by his rehri. As I was about to drink the juice, I noticed some movement down by the rehri and glanced down, expecting to find a dog to shoo away.

What did see? An old, frail woman, clothes in tatters, silver white hair all awry, picking up the rinds that made up the juice in my glass, trying to get the dirt off, and then suck the precious few drops left in them. I was so shocked and taken aback that I just could not bring myself to drink that juice.

I called out to her, and gave her my glass. She was at first surprised, but then accepted the glass. The rehri wala was upset at me for dirtying his glass by giving it to her. I shut him up by paying for the glass too, and giving whatever else I had left in my pocket to the poor woman. She only raised her hand once in gratitude, and slunk away. The bus came. I picked up my passenger, and went on with the rest of the day.

To this day, I cannot drink orange juice without remembering that poor woman, may Allah bless her soul eternally. Her image is still fresh in my mind like I saw her yesterday.






(I do not advertise what I still do to support the poor directly in Pakistan. But if anybody wants to have an idea, please see my flood relief donations for the last two years already in the public domain on PakWheels, as an example. I was ridiculed exactly the same as I am currently being here, but now I am regarded as a valued participant, both by the administration and by the members. One day I hope to replicate that acceptance here too if given half a chance.)

 

[MastanKhan]

hi,

This board could act as such a power house for bettering the image of pakistan world wide if it was used in a more professional manner. It could also give us a big presentation on some major pakistani TV channels as well as TV channels world wide---.

You people want to change paksiatn, but you have no clue what to do----the solution---it is staring at you right in front of your faces and you can't see---. By this time---the pakistani community on this board should have been acting like a power stroke diesel engine---but the leading members have no vision---no original ideas---have no idea how to talk to people and what to say----.

And then they say it is just an internet website----you can make this thing into whatsoever you want to---would some of you guys like to see me sitting on the cnn giving somebody bad mouthing pakistan a piece of my mind, on equal terms---talking back to them as they are trashing my motherland and giving them a piece of their own medicine.

How about on geo or and other channels---. I know a lot of you cannot speak out of fear in pakistan---but some of us wouldn't mind to----.

The TT chairman should be a person who can be the mouthpiece and face to fight for pakistan---not someone who is doing good things undercover----. He can be made the Grand Poobah---or the great Benefactor----.

Asim---this democratic process has gone too far---. This maybe one of the largest defence related forum anywhere---. Make it more powerful---by putting the right people in the right place---to lead----. Mind is like a parachute---in order for it to work---you have to open it----this board is like a parachute too.

 

[iPhone]

Is becoming a Think Tank member that important here? That by not getting the title one should get so worked up about it. I mean you know who you are, right? Your education, your experience, your field of work will speak about you in your posts more than the title under your name.

Maybe its just me but I've noticed this sort of Shakespeare-esque like power struggles, betrayals, complaints of injustices, unfairness handed out to people from Pakistanis in many sectors. Take for instance the student club in college. Certain Pakistani fellow students/members complained they were better qualified for the president, vice president, management etc position than those already there or those who were newly elected. That they were two-timed out of it or the person getting the position was on the inner circle. Now tell me if what Im saying you guys never experienced or witnessed it before.

Take for instance the Pakistani Masjid I go to. The upper echelons are occasionally clashing over who should be the chairman, who has the authority over donations, who should they hire as the imam and things of that sort.

Move on to Pakistani politics, same situation. Look over to public and private sector, also similar. Now I'm learning the same situation is somewhat prevalent in PDF too after some dirty laundry got put in public.

Maybe its our national trait to think ourselves always better and more knowledgeable than the others and esp the authority we live under. Maybe those not getting the chance ARE better and thus venting over it. Maybe the two groups should try to find a middle ground and work for the benefits of the nation or whatever fraternity they represent despite their differences.

Whatever the case, I firmly believe, out of menagerie of problems facing the motherland, this petite power struggle issues are also up there.

 

[iPhone]

My shikwas against Pakistan are real, but it does not stop me from supporting it still. I have never betrayed Pakistan; rather it has betrayed me many time and I have still forgiven it. Trust me on that if you can.

The people could have betrayed you, vCheng. But how could Pakistan betray you?
Wasn't it JFK, whom you quoted here, who said ask not what the country has done for you but what you have done for the country.

 

[lem34]

To be honest I have read lots of posts by tt members. I would not want to get into naming names, a lot of them are good but I think there is little transparency on the site. If cheng wants to be a tt he should be told the criteria. I would say his posts are just as good as other tt members. I sometimes disagree with chengs views but surely pakistan is big enough and strong enough to have different shades of opinion. If someone wants to give time and contribute to the forum they should be made welcome

 

[iPhone]

Truth HURTS!

Yes, but a lie hurts even more. Esp when you know the truth when you're being lied to or find out the truth later upon being lied to. BTW, not calling you a liar.

 

[VCheng]

The people could have betrayed you, vCheng. But how could Pakistan betray you?
Wasn't it JFK, whom you quoted here, who said ask not what the country has done for you but what you have done for the country.

Pakistan has betrayed me by becoming what is was never supposed to be - a sinking third world banana republic. People have come and gone, but they all stood for Pakistan and made it what it is today.

Remember, I grew up after the heady progress of the sixties, and saw first hand the disaster of Bhutto, Zia and the rest. During those time I was working in areas that I won't mention but it was work of the highest importance.

I have good reasons to say what I did.

Yes, but a lie hurts even more. Esp when you know the truth when you're being lied to or find out the truth later upon being lied to. BTW, not calling you a liar.

Which is why I do not lie, even in the portion of the post above.