AH-1Z Viper, 1000 Hellfire II Missiles approved for sale to Pakistan.

[MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n]

If US has cleared the sale of AH-1Z it means they refused to clear the engines for T-129

@cabatli_53

bro.,my 2 questions still remains unanswered ...

 

[Donatello]

I didn't see any sentence regarding 2,75 inch guided missile permission on DSCA. I think If This deal take place, Pakistan will certainly need a 70mm missile system to be perfectly suited on COIN operations instead of using an expensive missile system like HellFire on moving soft targets and There are a few solution in that missile sector.

Can these be readily integrated on the AH-1Zs?

If US has cleared the sale of AH-1Z it means they refused to clear the engines for T-129

@cabatli_53

Do you know, this is interesting, since USA has approved an entire bucket load of offensive package, why would they block the engines if needed? Unless they want Pakistan to purchase an All American Attack helo fleet......we still need 40-50 attack helos.....that would be T-129 or Z-10....and that is going to be a tough balancing act to keep both our friends happy. USA, has smartly thrown us in a dilemma.


Bhai when are we getting a Turkish flag for the forum?

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Can these be readily integrated on the AH-1Zs?



Do you know, this is interesting, since USA has approved an entire bucket load of offensive package, why would they block the engines if needed? Unless they want Pakistan to purchase an All American Attack helo fleet......we still need 40-50 attack helos.....that would be T-129 or Z-10....and that is going to be a tough balancing act to keep both our friends happy. USA, has smartly thrown us in a dilemma.


Bhai when are we getting a Turkish flag for the forum?

Do you think USA would be able to get the permissions of letting Pakistan have 40-50 AH-1Z's without losing on the Apache deal with the Indian's. As it is most likely the Indian's would not buy the Apache because they know that it is similar or may be slightly more advance to the AH-64E Block III's they are trying to get along with the Chinook's.

They would have to also provide assurance to the parliament regarding their ability to some how restrict Pakistan access to the Spares which is not so easy. In an earlier post I read that it would be possible for PAA to maintain these new Zulu's for 15 to 20 years easily.

 

[Donatello]

Do you think USA would be able to get the permissions of letting Pakistan have 40-50 AH-1Z's without losing on the Apache deal with the Indian's. As it is most likely the Indian's would not buy the Apache because they know that it is similar or may be slightly more advance to the AH-64E Block III's they are trying to get along with the Chinook's.

They would have to also provide assurance to the parliament regarding their ability to some how restrict Pakistan access to the Spares which is not so easy. In an earlier post I read that it would be possible for PAA to maintain these new Zulu's for 15 to 20 years easily.

Indian deal has been in the making for a long time....USA still approved the Zulus regardless. I am not so sure if Pakistan would want an all American fleet of attack helos, when other options are clearly available....but 1000 Hellfires is a lot of missiles.....just like Pakistan ordered 500 AIM120s for the F-16s.......maybe Pakistan wants to place a follow on order......like ex-Jordanian F-16s. About spares, just order a lot of them.....and above all make sure your relations don't go south. (OBL was perhaps the worst that could happen)

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

@cabatli_53

When are the Turkish going to replace the US engine for the ATAK's so that they are able to export them without asking for approvals and actually have some competitor for the Ah-1z 's.

Indian deal has been in the making for a long time....USA still approved the Zulus regardless. I am not so sure if Pakistan would want an all American fleet of attack helos, when other options are clearly available....but 1000 Hellfires is a lot of missiles.....just like Pakistan ordered 500 AIM120s for the F-16s.......maybe Pakistan wants to place a follow on order......like ex-Jordanian F-16s. About spares, just order a lot of them.....and above all make sure your relations don't go south. (OBL was perhaps the worst that could happen)

Agreed.
Pakistan might be thinking they were always handicapped with weapons during war but what about the spares they are also important as was seen during the 71 war. So far the spares that are going to come are going to be installed with the exception of a few engines.

Any news on sidewinders for the Zulus because we are only seeing & discussing 1000 Hellfires.

 

[Donatello]

@cabatli_53

When are the Turkish going to replace the US engine for the ATAK's so that they are able to export them without asking for approvals and actually have some competitor for the Ah-1z 's.


Agreed.
Pakistan might be thinking they were always handicapped with weapons during war but what about the spares they are also important as was seen during the 71 war. So far the spares that are going to come are what are going to be installed with the exception of a few engines.

Any news on sidewinders for the Zulus because we are only seeing & discussing 1000 Hellfires.

Plenty of Sidewinders available.....but more can be procured....nothing high tech there.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Plenty of Sidewinders available.....but more can be procured....nothing high tech there.

Remember those are for PAF and paid by their budget.
PAA does not have the ability to fire Sidewinders from the existing Cobra's right?

 

[ArsalanKhan21]

Pakistan has urgent need for attack helicopters.

US Filling Saudi Munition Holes | China, South Korea Talk Arms Control THAAD’s Shadow | Airbus Seeks Indian Partner

US Filling Saudi Munition Holes | China, South Korea Talk Arms Control in THAAD’s Shadow | Airbus Seeks Indian Partner
Apr 07, 2015 00:28 UTC by Defense Industry Daily staff
America

• Rockwell Collins was awarded a $495 million contract Tuesday for software and system integration on the Army’s helicopters, with a portion of these services earmarked for foreign sales. The company was also awarded a $8.1 million modification for the Common Avionics Architecture System to equip CH-47F helos.
• In further good news for Rockwell Collins, the company will supply 44 Communication Navigation Surveillance/Air Traffic Management systems for the KC-10 tanker fleet, following a similar contract in August.
• The US is ramping up arms transfer to the Saudis, media reported Tuesday, with munitions high on the list of requirements. The assistance is being allocated through a Joint Planning Cell with the Saudis.

Europe

• The European Defence Agency announced new funding for dual-use technologies , releasing a Request for Projects notice Tuesday.
• Turkey is looking to speed up its development of a conceptual trainer aircraft, to be designed and built domestically. The new trainer will be specifically designed to train pilots to use new fighters procured through the indigenous TF-X program , with a RFI for this program released last month.

Asia

• Pakistan wants to buy fifteen AH-1Z Viper attack helicopters, gun systems, 1000 Hellfire II missiles and other equipment through a possible FMS . The cost? $952 million. The State Department has green-lit the deal, with the potential sale going to Congress.
• India will not sign its stalled multi-billion Rafale contract with Dassault until the French company agrees to what the Indian government says was the original pricing structure for the deal. The drawn-out MMRCA program has seen multiple disputes between the Indian Defense Ministry and Dassault, with the Indians threatening to walk away from the deal in January. Although this may be simply bluster, the Russian vultures are circling, ready to supply the SU-30 fighter if the Rafale deal falls through.
• China and South Korea are to hold arms control talks this week , an interesting development given the recent tension over US plans to base THAAD interceptors in South Korea to complement the existing jointly-operated Aegis/Patriot systems.
• According to Japanese media , Indonesia is contemplating buying the US-2 amphibious plane, the same design India is currently in talks with Japan over.
• Airbus is reportedly in talks with six Indian defense contractors in an effort to find a domestic company to reply to a $2 billion naval helicopter RFI, with Indian procurement regulation allowing only an Indian company to respond.

 

[denel]

go with china...

 

[niaz]

They specifically use the word 30 installed with 2 spares. I think it is just the way they are describing the product.I maybe wrong but 8 think this is what the confusion is.
Araz

I am also a bit confused. AH-1Z is a twin engined helo. Thus 15 helos need 30, the 2 extra being spares. Does it imply that the deal is 15 frames plus 32 engines? One would have assumed that when you buy a helicopter, it would be in flying condition.

Per the link below 12 birds cost 428.6-millions or about $35.72-million each or almost as much as an F-16C-52.
This means that 15 AH-1Z will cost about $536-million. It is no doubt very expensive but at least on paper; it is definitely a very competent fighting machine.

Bell AH-1Z Viper | Info, Upgrade, Avionics, Budget/Costs, Specs

 

[Indus Falcon]

I am also a bit confused. AH-1Z is a twin engined helo. Thus 15 helos need 30, the 2 extra being spares. Does it imply that the deal is 15 frames plus 32 engines? One would have assumed that when you buy a helicopter, it would be in flying condition.

Per the link below 12 birds cost 428.6-millions or about $35.72-million each or almost as much as an F-16C-52.
This means that 15 AH-1Z will cost about $536-million. It is no doubt very expensive but at least on paper; it is definitely a very competent fighting machine.

Bell AH-1Z Viper | Info, Upgrade, Avionics, Budget/Costs, Specs

You are right. It implies exactly what you said: 15 airframes + 32 engines.

It will be in flying condition, but when notifications are sent out, this is how it is broken down.

 

[Kompromat]

I am also a bit confused. AH-1Z is a twin engined helo. Thus 15 helos need 30, the 2 extra being spares. Does it imply that the deal is 15 frames plus 32 engines? One would have assumed that when you buy a helicopter, it would be in flying condition.

Per the link below 12 birds cost 428.6-millions or about $35.72-million each or almost as much as an F-16C-52.
This means that 15 AH-1Z will cost about $536-million. It is no doubt very expensive but at least on paper; it is definitely a very competent fighting machine.

Bell AH-1Z Viper | Info, Upgrade, Avionics, Budget/Costs, Specs

Sir it also includes 1000 Hellfire - II missiles and associated training, parts and support.

 

[airmarshal]

Do you think USA would be able to get the permissions of letting Pakistan have 40-50 AH-1Z's without losing on the Apache deal with the Indian's. As it is most likely the Indian's would not buy the Apache because they know that it is similar or may be slightly more advance to the AH-64E Block III's they are trying to get along with the Chinook's.

They would have to also provide assurance to the parliament regarding their ability to some how restrict Pakistan access to the Spares which is not so easy. In an earlier post I read that it would be possible for PAA to maintain these new Zulu's for 15 to 20 years easily.

Indians are dealing with Americans and Americans dont get arm twisted. Take it or leave it.

I am also a bit confused. AH-1Z is a twin engined helo. Thus 15 helos need 30, the 2 extra being spares. Does it imply that the deal is 15 frames plus 32 engines? One would have assumed that when you buy a helicopter, it would be in flying condition.

Per the link below 12 birds cost 428.6-millions or about $35.72-million each or almost as much as an F-16C-52.
This means that 15 AH-1Z will cost about $536-million. It is no doubt very expensive but at least on paper; it is definitely a very competent fighting machine.

Bell AH-1Z Viper | Info, Upgrade, Avionics, Budget/Costs, Specs

Vow! Thats expensive and I think to maintain it will also be expensive. That could be the reason for a smaller order.

 

[Donatello]

I am also a bit confused. AH-1Z is a twin engined helo. Thus 15 helos need 30, the 2 extra being spares. Does it imply that the deal is 15 frames plus 32 engines? One would have assumed that when you buy a helicopter, it would be in flying condition.

Per the link below 12 birds cost 428.6-millions or about $35.72-million each or almost as much as an F-16C-52.
This means that 15 AH-1Z will cost about $536-million. It is no doubt very expensive but at least on paper; it is definitely a very competent fighting machine.

Bell AH-1Z Viper | Info, Upgrade, Avionics, Budget/Costs, Specs

If i am not mistaken, the engines are a big part of the attack helo, aircraft etc....and they are made by a different manufacturer, not by Bell. So i think they said 32 engines to indicate which manufacturer would be dealing with the sales. It actually states, that 32 engines, 30 installed and 2 spares. Parts and components will be coming from different contractors and hence their US state of origin is also mentioned, probably for Congress guidelines.

 

[mughaljee]

Brother's,
So Simple,
Apache deal with the Indian's is going to final,
this is why they are offering to us this copter,