Agent_47
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Agni V Discussions
- Thread starter Indian Tiger
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More to come Asif!
LOL
But you are going to be BANNED for Insulting Nation(s)
.......?It was just another Indian thread but with your presence here it complete the WORD you added. I fully agree with you statement now
RazPaK
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You guys can post all the funnies you want, but the fact that it's on defense.pk speaks for itself.
Got dam it I am agreeing with your every statement today
Ya it's fun to be on some else's play ground
RPK
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Business Line : Opinion : Agni V: Fired by domestic industry
The flight of Agni V brings to the fore the strength of domestic industry and the industrial base that can be created in the Defence sector.
About 450 people, right from the top missile scientist to the contract worker, sweated it out 24x7 for nearly a fortnight on the Wheeler Island, off the coast of Odisha. The dedication and team work culminated in the success of Agni V, India's longest range ballistic missile, on April 19.
While the blast-off and flawless flight of Agni V was the visible face of the success story, the bigger story on the ground that is unfolding is the strength of the domestic industry and the huge industrial base that can be created in the Defence sector, especially aerospace. In the missile project itself, at least 50-60 industries, both large and small, have participated.
The total process control, linear accelerators, entire vacuum chamber, composite casings, rocket motors, filament winding machines, carbon-reinforced fibres, gyros, GPS systems, low alloy steel, servo valves, autoclaves, solid propellants and a long list, accounting for nearly 80 per cent of the missiles, are today made by Indian industry, in close collaboration with the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).
The very fact that India has demonstrated the capability to develop Agni V in the face of technology denial regimes, clearly shows how Indian scientists and industry have converted each denial as a challenge and opportunity to develop indigenous capability, said Mr Avinash Chander, Chief Controller (missiles and strategic systems), Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).
SUPPLIER TO PRODUCER
The Agni missile is a complex system. Hundreds of people across scores of industries in both the public and private (mostly small and medium enterprises) were instrumental in fabrication, from minute components to large systems. Most of the work is still manual in the industry. Hence, the functioning of all these to the most demanding environment in space, has given us the confidence that we have attained a standard of quality and ruggedness, he explained.
At the industry level, there is a need for improvement in the quality and standardisation of products.
Since flight environment cannot be simulated on the ground, it is imperative that the best possible quality checks and standards are maintained. Globally, 75 per cent of failures are due to critical connectors. The next is single shot systems (rocket motors, missile separator systems) and only 5 per cent due to design.
The road ahead for the Indian industry is to transform itself from a mere supplier of components and systems to a production partner. As per rough estimates, around 300-400 industries of different sizes have been involved with the DRDO in various projects ranging from tanks to aircraft, and from food to security systems for the Defence forces.
The DRDO has received a budget of Rs 10,600 crore for 2012-13, which is around 5.6 per cent of the total defence budget, to fund its research and development programmes.
Though, missiles such as Agni-V, per se, will not be mass-produced, the technological capabilities and fabrication infrastructure could stand industry in good stead to take on several projects, not just for the Defence sector, but the civilian market as well.
India has a huge Defence budget of Rs 1.7 lakh crore and the production and purchase by the Defence forces is huge and varied. In the case of Prithvi (range of 350 km), about 100 will be produced, whereas for the Akash (surface-to-air missile), the Bharat Dynamics Limited (BDL) has bagged a Rs 5,000-crore order.
THE INITIATIVES
The Defence Ministry has been initiating several policy measures to attract the industry. The Defence industrial production policy, the 26 per cent FDI and the offset clauses, it feels, can give the much-needed push to the domestic industry to take up a greater role.
Two important moves from the industry aiming to capitalise on the emerging opportunities have begun showing results. The first is the joint venture route and the second is the public-private partnerships. Leading corporates such as the Tatas have struck JVs with Israeli companies. Mahindras, Hindujas, L&T, HAL, to name a few, are exploring possibilities. On the partnership mode, the BrahMos supersonic missile produced by the Indo-Russian JV, BrahMos Aerospace, is proving to be quite successful. Similar initiatives with France, US and Israel are in the pipeline.
The DRDO, on its part, is proposing a couple of moves. First is to create alternative assembly or production lines in the private sector for identified products. In every project, it plans to clearly identify the industry partner upfront. For example, in the missiles area, companies such as BEL, BEML, L&T, Tatas, SEC, Mahindras, Premier Explosives, Walchandnagar can be involved. Among the smaller companies RAP, Apollo Computing, Accord systems and Software, VEM Technology, Analogics to name a few, are active.
FABRICATING SUCCESS
The second is to create a special fund. The objective is to provide financial help to the SMEs to indigenously develop components and sub-systems on demand and create production facilities.
The Departments of Space and Atomic Energy have tried this route with success. The strategic sectors have funded the Hyderabad-based, Midhani, which makes special materials to upgrade its facilities in the last few years with considerable advantages to their ongoing programmes.
The DRDO is also collaborating with the CII to create a database for the SMEs. The inputs would also be useful in tapping the advantages of the Defence offsets, which make it mandatory for global companies to source a minimum of 30 per cent of the contract value they have bagged from domestic sources in India.
The organisation, with a string of 50 national laboratories, has also tried the Government-Owned-
Company-Operated model with limited success. Here, the DRDO provided the technology and some funding for a private sector company to develop a specific product that has been denied due to export control regimes. Further, the agreement was for a total buyback as it did not have much of a civilian market or application.
A good example has been the development of Servo Valves. The Research Centre Imarat (RCI), Hyderabad, passed on the technology to a private enterprise and provided funds. The company fabricated it and delivered it back to the DRDO. The product has been tested with success. In addition to aerospace, the valves are used in machine tools, furnaces, power plants etc.
Another case is the fibre optic gyros. Fibre optic gyros offer more than a Rs 1,000 crore opportunity for the industry. Already, a dozen Indian industries have approached the DRDO for technology know-how.
However, there is a limitation to this model, as the scope for mass production is limited and the private company will not find incentive to create infrastructure or dedicate manpower. The time is, perhaps, ripe for innovation and new ventures that can spur the domestic industry to seize the opportunities ahead.
The flight of Agni V brings to the fore the strength of domestic industry and the industrial base that can be created in the Defence sector.
About 450 people, right from the top missile scientist to the contract worker, sweated it out 24x7 for nearly a fortnight on the Wheeler Island, off the coast of Odisha. The dedication and team work culminated in the success of Agni V, India's longest range ballistic missile, on April 19.
While the blast-off and flawless flight of Agni V was the visible face of the success story, the bigger story on the ground that is unfolding is the strength of the domestic industry and the huge industrial base that can be created in the Defence sector, especially aerospace. In the missile project itself, at least 50-60 industries, both large and small, have participated.
The total process control, linear accelerators, entire vacuum chamber, composite casings, rocket motors, filament winding machines, carbon-reinforced fibres, gyros, GPS systems, low alloy steel, servo valves, autoclaves, solid propellants and a long list, accounting for nearly 80 per cent of the missiles, are today made by Indian industry, in close collaboration with the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).
The very fact that India has demonstrated the capability to develop Agni V in the face of technology denial regimes, clearly shows how Indian scientists and industry have converted each denial as a challenge and opportunity to develop indigenous capability, said Mr Avinash Chander, Chief Controller (missiles and strategic systems), Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).
SUPPLIER TO PRODUCER
The Agni missile is a complex system. Hundreds of people across scores of industries in both the public and private (mostly small and medium enterprises) were instrumental in fabrication, from minute components to large systems. Most of the work is still manual in the industry. Hence, the functioning of all these to the most demanding environment in space, has given us the confidence that we have attained a standard of quality and ruggedness, he explained.
At the industry level, there is a need for improvement in the quality and standardisation of products.
Since flight environment cannot be simulated on the ground, it is imperative that the best possible quality checks and standards are maintained. Globally, 75 per cent of failures are due to critical connectors. The next is single shot systems (rocket motors, missile separator systems) and only 5 per cent due to design.
The road ahead for the Indian industry is to transform itself from a mere supplier of components and systems to a production partner. As per rough estimates, around 300-400 industries of different sizes have been involved with the DRDO in various projects ranging from tanks to aircraft, and from food to security systems for the Defence forces.
The DRDO has received a budget of Rs 10,600 crore for 2012-13, which is around 5.6 per cent of the total defence budget, to fund its research and development programmes.
Though, missiles such as Agni-V, per se, will not be mass-produced, the technological capabilities and fabrication infrastructure could stand industry in good stead to take on several projects, not just for the Defence sector, but the civilian market as well.
India has a huge Defence budget of Rs 1.7 lakh crore and the production and purchase by the Defence forces is huge and varied. In the case of Prithvi (range of 350 km), about 100 will be produced, whereas for the Akash (surface-to-air missile), the Bharat Dynamics Limited (BDL) has bagged a Rs 5,000-crore order.
THE INITIATIVES
The Defence Ministry has been initiating several policy measures to attract the industry. The Defence industrial production policy, the 26 per cent FDI and the offset clauses, it feels, can give the much-needed push to the domestic industry to take up a greater role.
Two important moves from the industry aiming to capitalise on the emerging opportunities have begun showing results. The first is the joint venture route and the second is the public-private partnerships. Leading corporates such as the Tatas have struck JVs with Israeli companies. Mahindras, Hindujas, L&T, HAL, to name a few, are exploring possibilities. On the partnership mode, the BrahMos supersonic missile produced by the Indo-Russian JV, BrahMos Aerospace, is proving to be quite successful. Similar initiatives with France, US and Israel are in the pipeline.
The DRDO, on its part, is proposing a couple of moves. First is to create alternative assembly or production lines in the private sector for identified products. In every project, it plans to clearly identify the industry partner upfront. For example, in the missiles area, companies such as BEL, BEML, L&T, Tatas, SEC, Mahindras, Premier Explosives, Walchandnagar can be involved. Among the smaller companies RAP, Apollo Computing, Accord systems and Software, VEM Technology, Analogics to name a few, are active.
FABRICATING SUCCESS
The second is to create a special fund. The objective is to provide financial help to the SMEs to indigenously develop components and sub-systems on demand and create production facilities.
The Departments of Space and Atomic Energy have tried this route with success. The strategic sectors have funded the Hyderabad-based, Midhani, which makes special materials to upgrade its facilities in the last few years with considerable advantages to their ongoing programmes.
The DRDO is also collaborating with the CII to create a database for the SMEs. The inputs would also be useful in tapping the advantages of the Defence offsets, which make it mandatory for global companies to source a minimum of 30 per cent of the contract value they have bagged from domestic sources in India.
The organisation, with a string of 50 national laboratories, has also tried the Government-Owned-
Company-Operated model with limited success. Here, the DRDO provided the technology and some funding for a private sector company to develop a specific product that has been denied due to export control regimes. Further, the agreement was for a total buyback as it did not have much of a civilian market or application.
A good example has been the development of Servo Valves. The Research Centre Imarat (RCI), Hyderabad, passed on the technology to a private enterprise and provided funds. The company fabricated it and delivered it back to the DRDO. The product has been tested with success. In addition to aerospace, the valves are used in machine tools, furnaces, power plants etc.
Another case is the fibre optic gyros. Fibre optic gyros offer more than a Rs 1,000 crore opportunity for the industry. Already, a dozen Indian industries have approached the DRDO for technology know-how.
However, there is a limitation to this model, as the scope for mass production is limited and the private company will not find incentive to create infrastructure or dedicate manpower. The time is, perhaps, ripe for innovation and new ventures that can spur the domestic industry to seize the opportunities ahead.
RPK
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Way back in 1983 and a year before she was assassinated, then Prime Minister Indira Gandhi asked the nation's top defence scientist APJ Abdul Kalam to build a missile that could reach mainland China.
Nearly three decades later, the outcome was Agni-V and the credit, according to Kalam, goes to the Congress's Iron Lady.
Kalam, who went on to become the President, revealed this to top bureaucrats on Civil Services Day on April 21 - two days after the successful launch of the nuclear-capable Agni-V missile that has a range of 5,000 km and can reach Beijing and Shanghai at the push of a button. He said the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has fulfiled Indira Gandhi's dream of a long-range missile.
Recalling his encounter with the former PM when he was director of Defence Research and Defence Laboratory (DRDL) in Hyderabad, he said: "She came to DRDL to review the integrated guided missile programme that she had sanctioned. When we were presenting the progress of the programme, Indira Gandhi saw the world map at the conference hall. She asked us to stop the presentation and said, 'Kalam, look at the map, look at the distance in the eastern side of the map. When will the laboratory launch a missile which will be capable of reaching that spot?' That spot was 5,000 km from Indian territory."
"Of course, our DRDO scientists have achieved this great target envisioned by Indira ji ," he added.
He then recalled another incident that would become the launching pad of Agni-V and other missiles in the nation's arsenal. He said then Orissa chief minister Biju Patnaik gave the Wheeler Island off the state's coast in the Arabian Sea to the DRDO in 1993, but with a rider. The Orissa strongman told him that he should promise a missile that would reach China.
"To get the island (to launch test missiles), we needed a political decision from Patnaik. The indications were that the island cannot be given to the DRDO because of several reasons. However, an appointment was fixed with the CM. When I reached his office, the file was in front of him. Patnaik said: 'Kalam, I have decided to give all five islands to you (DRDO), but I will sign on the file only when you give me a promise'," he said.
"The chief minister held my hand and said: 'I have an invitation to China. I will visit China only when you promise that you will make a missile that will reach China.' I said, 'Chief minister Sir, definitely we will work on it'," he added.
Kalam revealed in short what diplomacy wouldn't allow: Agni-V was built with the sole intention of targeting China.
He said Indira Gandhi and Patnaik were visionary leaders, but there were farsighted bureaucrats too.
When the armed forces, Kalam said, were critical of the integrated guided missile programme in 1982-83, then cabinet secretary C. R. Krishnaswamy Rao put his weight behind the project and his doggedness received then defence minister R. Venkataraman's approval.
"Today, the production agency for Prithvi, Agni, Akash and Brahmos missiles has a total order valued at over Rs.93 lakh crore. Such is the power of vision of our political and bureaucratic leadership," he added.
Read more at: APJ Abdul Kalam credits Indira Gandhi for Agni-V missile success story : North News - India Today
Nearly three decades later, the outcome was Agni-V and the credit, according to Kalam, goes to the Congress's Iron Lady.
Kalam, who went on to become the President, revealed this to top bureaucrats on Civil Services Day on April 21 - two days after the successful launch of the nuclear-capable Agni-V missile that has a range of 5,000 km and can reach Beijing and Shanghai at the push of a button. He said the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has fulfiled Indira Gandhi's dream of a long-range missile.
Recalling his encounter with the former PM when he was director of Defence Research and Defence Laboratory (DRDL) in Hyderabad, he said: "She came to DRDL to review the integrated guided missile programme that she had sanctioned. When we were presenting the progress of the programme, Indira Gandhi saw the world map at the conference hall. She asked us to stop the presentation and said, 'Kalam, look at the map, look at the distance in the eastern side of the map. When will the laboratory launch a missile which will be capable of reaching that spot?' That spot was 5,000 km from Indian territory."
"Of course, our DRDO scientists have achieved this great target envisioned by Indira ji ," he added.
He then recalled another incident that would become the launching pad of Agni-V and other missiles in the nation's arsenal. He said then Orissa chief minister Biju Patnaik gave the Wheeler Island off the state's coast in the Arabian Sea to the DRDO in 1993, but with a rider. The Orissa strongman told him that he should promise a missile that would reach China.
"To get the island (to launch test missiles), we needed a political decision from Patnaik. The indications were that the island cannot be given to the DRDO because of several reasons. However, an appointment was fixed with the CM. When I reached his office, the file was in front of him. Patnaik said: 'Kalam, I have decided to give all five islands to you (DRDO), but I will sign on the file only when you give me a promise'," he said.
"The chief minister held my hand and said: 'I have an invitation to China. I will visit China only when you promise that you will make a missile that will reach China.' I said, 'Chief minister Sir, definitely we will work on it'," he added.
Kalam revealed in short what diplomacy wouldn't allow: Agni-V was built with the sole intention of targeting China.
He said Indira Gandhi and Patnaik were visionary leaders, but there were farsighted bureaucrats too.
When the armed forces, Kalam said, were critical of the integrated guided missile programme in 1982-83, then cabinet secretary C. R. Krishnaswamy Rao put his weight behind the project and his doggedness received then defence minister R. Venkataraman's approval.
"Today, the production agency for Prithvi, Agni, Akash and Brahmos missiles has a total order valued at over Rs.93 lakh crore. Such is the power of vision of our political and bureaucratic leadership," he added.
Read more at: APJ Abdul Kalam credits Indira Gandhi for Agni-V missile success story : North News - India Today
This is a reference I found regarding the re-entry speed of of the Agni V, that cites a named official:
The first hint of Agni-V’s ICBM status was dropped by the minister of state for science, Ashwini Kumar, when he referred to the missile re-entering the atmosphere at “24.4 times the speed of sound”. Depending on the altitude, this works out to roughly 7.2 to 7.7 kms per second as terminal velocity, making it unquestionably an ICBM, compared to 6.2 to 6.5 kms per second re-entry speed of Agni-IV, which is IRBM performance.
India’s missile bamboozle
The first hint of Agni-V’s ICBM status was dropped by the minister of state for science, Ashwini Kumar, when he referred to the missile re-entering the atmosphere at “24.4 times the speed of sound”. Depending on the altitude, this works out to roughly 7.2 to 7.7 kms per second as terminal velocity, making it unquestionably an ICBM, compared to 6.2 to 6.5 kms per second re-entry speed of Agni-IV, which is IRBM performance.
India’s missile bamboozle
Firemaster
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Agni III is not inducted ?
In production
The implications are interesting. The American THAAD system has a speed of about 2800 m/sec (Terminal High Altitude Area Defense - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Could it intercept a warhead travelling at 7000 m/sec?
anathema
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Yes - it works on the same principle as any BMD. i.e - it intercepts the missile based on the path it is taking. So it really doesnt need velocity beyond a certain point. All it needs to compute a highly accurate intercept path and intercept it..
I have put it in a very simple way - there are lot of other stuff that is essential in intercepting a missile
The game will continue; MARV is the next stage.
SamantK
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Also, V K Saraswat confirmed this himself with a interview to NDTV, I have posted it some pages back.. it is a True ICBM and there is now no question about it.. Another thing to note is many guys in BR say it had a suppressed fligh meaning it could hit around 7000 km without modification to the path, how much is true I dont know yet, havent seen any official speaking about it or any source...
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