Agartala Conspiracy confession, what does it mean for our history

[kalu_miah]

Will reply in detail later but perhaps there is a clue in the following slogan that was popular at the time:

"Hans ke liya hai Pakistan, Lad ke lenge Hindustan".

At least some of the Muhajirs were under the impression that "they will be back".

With a new Gazhani.

Most were just convinced by the leaders and did what they were told to. That is how it always works.

PS: Also the Muhajirs were probably under the impression that they will be running the new country. For them, the people already present in their new country were no good, to put it mildly.

They were clueless, the result they have to live with, shows for it.

Muhajirs did control Pakistan both wings initially and they took West Pakistan elite as their partner to usurp and keep down Bengali elite. That was the 2nd big mistake after Partition that became one major among many factors that eventually broke Pakistan.

 

[kalu_miah]

cross posted:

Mujib was not pro-India until after 1971, after he was freed from jail in Pakistan. I just found out from Major Dalim’s book, Ami Major Dalim Bolchi, that Mujib’s 6-point movement was created by Ford Foundation economists to teach a lesson and a warning to Ayub Khan by USA because he was getting close to China, a US enemy at the time.
Six point movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mujib was a lesser known politician with dubious reputation. True to his Gunda (goon) origin under Suhrawardy, he killed deputy speaker of parliament in an assault using broken chairs and microphones as projectiles:
Shahed Ali Patwary - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
MUJIB IN SHAHED ALI’S DEATH: A CHAIR HIT THE DEPUTY SPEAKER’S HEAD - Topix

It was “20th September 1958, the date scheduled for reopening the East Pakistan Legislative Assambly…”
“Speaker Abul Halim complained to President Mirza that he had been threatned with physical violence by Awami League leaders including Mujib if he entered the Legislative building.”
“Despite the threats he did assume the Speaker’s chair when the assembly convened. But legislators began physically assaulting each other, liberally using as weapons whatever they could find to hand, including microphones and staff bearing the national standard. The Speaker shouted out an adjoinment order and fled the chambers. As the Awami League members refused to obey that order, Deputy Speaker Shahed Ali took over.”

On 23 October (1958),“despite illness and reluctance to get embroiled in the Awami League’s disputes with its critics, Shahed Ali Conceded…” Missiles including parts of the chamber’s furniture were thrown and a chair hit the Deputy Speaker in the head.” These (injured) men,(Mujib was not one of them) and the Deputy Speaker were taken to hospital where two days later, Shahed Ali expired.” There was a gang of six Awami League members who were instrumental at throwing chairs with Sarkar and his loyalists; one of the chairs hit Shahed Ali.

During this time, Mujib was starting to be the driving force within the Awami League the Party now slowly being taken over by Suhrowarthy. Realizing this trend Bhasani previously left Awami League to start a new party called the NAP.

6 point movement catapulted Mujib to popularity. Then Ayub Khan govt. tried to suppress 6-point movement by arresting Mujib and many top AL leaders based on false charges against them connecting them to Agartala Conspiracy (a true treason case connected with RAW), although these AL leaders including Mujib had no connection to this treason case.

Bhashani came up with the 11 point movement mobilizing student activists to free Mujib and other leaders, all of whom were false charges by Ayub Khan govt. Due to these mass movement, Mujib was released, the case against him and others (to frame them) was dropped, and a young undeserving Mujib was catapulted as the undisputed national leader, as there was no one else available to speak as the voice of united East Pakistan. So here is the summary of sequence of events:

- unfair treatment and domination of West Pakistani-Mohajer elite and their usurpation of national power alienated Bengali elite (business, professional, bureacratic, armed forces, law enforcement and political class)
- Bengali elite joined with Bengali masses to press for end of Military rule, which was being used by minority West Pakistan-Mohajer elite to rule over majority Bengali’s in Pakistan
- 6 point movement was funded and initiated by USA to teach Ayub Khan a lesson when he got close to China, an enemy of USA at the time
- Mujib and other top AL leaders were falsely charged with connection to Agartala Case (a true conspiracy case with some minor figures that was actually hatched by RAW) to frame these national leaders as Indian agents and traitors
- Bhashani launched 11 point movement to free Mujib and others in a mass movement led by student activists
- Ayub Khan govt. fell as a result, Mujib and others were freed and Agartala case was dropped
- Bhasani was already 90 years old in 1970, so instead of this true visionary leader, an undeserving younger Mujib became the face and voice of East Pakistan, whose sole goal was autonomy, as strictly instructed by his US handlers, but never to go for breaking Pakistan in a move for secession
- when Mujib was jailed and Operation Searchlight was initiated, Pakistan Army was unleashed on a defenceless Bengali population, the Bengali members of armed forces revolted and declared independence (Zia) and initiated the armed struggle for liberation

 

[Vinod2070]

They were clueless, the result they have to live with, shows for it.

Muhajirs did control Pakistan both wings initially and they took West Pakistan elite as their partner to usurp and keep down Bengali elite. That was the 2nd big mistake after Partition that became one major among many factors that eventually broke Pakistan.

One has to be very afraid that what one asks for, may just come true.

 

[kalu_miah]

One has to be very afraid that what one asks for, may just come true.

Agreed, one has to weigh all sides, specially geopolitics, before deciding on what one asks for on these issues. Tagore said:

Ami Jaha chai taha vul kore chai, jaha pai taha chai na
What I want I want by mistake, what I get I do not want.

 

[kalu_miah]

I am reviving this old thread to make several points.

1. This recent riot in Muzaffarnagar in India reinforced my ideas about Partition in 1947. Muslim lives are not safe in a majority Hindu India and it would have been the same if Partition did not happen, even if we had 35% Muslim in an undivided India. So today I unreservedly thank Quad-i-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah as our savior and leader who created Pakistan and created two future homelands for Muslims of South Asia, away from the dirty hand of Hindu majoritarian oppression. Even if he was a Shia, what he has done was for the greater interest of all Muslims in then Pakistan, so he should be hailed as a hero to us all. Without him, there would be no Pakistan, no East Pakistan and no Bangladesh.

2. There are some Pakistani's in this forum who either have some personal issues connected with 1971 war and want to propagate the myth that Bengali's of East Pakistan betrayed West Pakistani's and Mohajer's in East Pakistan by shaking hands with an enemy state India. If one studies history, if one does their own research, the facts one uncovers, point to the other direction. This thread has sufficient details about this, if one is curious they can go through this from the beginning. The conclusion I reached are in this post:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...hat-does-mean-our-history-23.html#post4090882

- unfair treatment and domination of West Pakistani-Mohajer elite and their usurpation of national power alienated Bengali elite (business, professional, bureacratic, armed forces, law enforcement and political class)
- Bengali elite joined with Bengali masses to press for end of Military rule, which was being used by minority West Pakistan-Mohajer elite to rule over majority Bengali’s in Pakistan
- 6 point movement was funded and initiated by USA to teach Ayub Khan a lesson when he got close to China, an enemy of USA at the time
- Mujib and other top AL leaders were falsely charged with connection to Agartala Case (a true conspiracy case with some minor figures that was actually hatched by RAW) to frame these national leaders as Indian agents and traitors
- Bhashani launched 11 point movement to free Mujib and others in a mass movement led by student activists
- Ayub Khan govt. fell as a result, Mujib and others were freed and Agartala case was dropped
- Bhasani was already 90 years old in 1970, so instead of this true visionary leader, an undeserving younger Mujib became the face and voice of East Pakistan, whose sole goal was autonomy, as strictly instructed by his US handlers, but never to go for breaking Pakistan in a move for secession
- when Mujib was jailed and Operation Searchlight was initiated, Pakistan Army was unleashed on a defenceless Bengali population, the Bengali members of armed forces revolted and declared independence (Zia) and initiated the armed struggle for liberation

The Ford foundation and US role in coming up with the 6 point bit is questionable, it is just one of the theories. And Operation Searchlight, the key mistake that broke Pakistan, was planned by none other than a Shia general Yahya Khan with the consent of a Shia politician Bhutto.

3. All that is past history. I have no personal interest in bringing it up. For the future of our country and people, for the greater interest of the Muslim world, I support improving relations between Bangladesh and Pakistan, the 3rd and 2nd largest Muslim country after the largest, Indonesia. Both countries need to move on, towards the future and not remained obsessed with the past, which is detrimental for both.

4. And I do not support Bangladesh going under any kind of Nuclear shield from Pakistan, that is an absolute no-no, people who mention or support such idea should know that overwhelming majority of Bangladesh population will oppose any such move by any quarter. Not only will they loose their political support, any officials even uttering such nonsense may loose their job or position. It is a complete non-starter.

 

[That Guy]

I am reviving this old thread to make several points.

Please keep dead threads as dead.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

I am reviving this old thread to make several points.

1. This recent riot in Muzaffarnagar in India reinforced my ideas about Partition in 1947. Muslim lives are not safe in a majority Hindu India and it would have been the same if Partition did not happen, even if we had 35% Muslim in an undivided India. So today I unreservedly thank Quad-i-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah as our savior and leader who created Pakistan and created two future homelands for Muslims of South Asia, away from the dirty hand of Hindu majoritarian oppression. Even if he was a Shia, what he has done was for the greater interest of all Muslims in then Pakistan, so he should be hailed as a hero to us all. Without him, there would be no Pakistan, no East Pakistan and no Bangladesh.

2. There are some Pakistani's in this forum who either have some personal issues connected with 1971 war and want to propagate the myth that Bengali's of East Pakistan betrayed West Pakistani's and Mohajer's in East Pakistan by shaking hands with an enemy state India. If one studies history, if one does their own research, the facts one uncovers, point to the other direction. This thread has sufficient details about this, if one is curious they can go through this from the beginning. The conclusion I reached are in this post:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...hat-does-mean-our-history-23.html#post4090882



The Ford foundation and US role in coming up with the 6 point bit is questionable, it is just one of the theories. And Operation Searchlight, the key mistake that broke Pakistan, was planned by none other than a Shia general Yahya Khan with the consent of a Shia politician Bhutto.

3. All that is past history. I have no personal interest in bringing it up. For the future of our country and people, for the greater interest of the Muslim world, I support improving relations between Bangladesh and Pakistan, the 3rd and 2nd largest Muslim country after the largest, Indonesia. Both countries need to move on, towards the future and not remained obsessed with the past, which is detrimental for both.

4. And I do not support Bangladesh going under any kind of Nuclear shield from Pakistan, that is an absolute no-no, people who mention or support such idea should know that overwhelming majority of Bangladesh population will oppose any such move by any quarter. Not only will they loose their political support, any officials even uttering such nonsense may loose their job or position. It is a complete non-starter.

Hence proved.
@Jungibaaz , @seiko - ^^ Zis guy iz too kewt.

 

[Vinod2070]

Hence proved.
@Jungibaaz , @seiko - ^^ Zis guy iz too kewt.

There is just too much muddled thinking going on in this kewt guy!

Almost all of his posts seem to obsess with India and Hindus for some weird reason.

While for us he doesn't matter, not because we have anything against him or his ilk, just that he is not the top priority for us.

His mental gymnastics and obsession with us is fun. Also his obsession with the Ummah (primarily that means Arabs, not African Muslims that are darker skinned and so don't seem to matter) that doesn't give a damn about people like him.

While he claims he has no interest in raking up past, almost all his posts are about the past and some weird fantasies about it.

Just move on and stop obsessing with us. Indians have nothing to do with regressive and hateful elements like him and couldn't care less what he thinks of us or the supposed condition of Muslims in India.

He was the one who was shouting "bring it on" about Muslims in Assam and then disappeared when the unfortunate riots happened there. That shows what such people are in reality, they are prisoners of their hate.

Kisi ke sagay nahi hain ye log, they don't care for anyone except their hate, obsessions and impotence...

 

[Vinod2070]

BTW, these simplistic and deliberately stupid and ignorant claims are also something that can work only on such people!

Operation Searchlight, the key mistake that broke Pakistan, was planned by none other than a Shia general Yahya Khan with the consent of a Shia politician Bhutto.

Was Tikka Khan (the butcher of Bengal) also a Shia?

Were the Razakaars also all Shia?

Was the majority of the PA that perpetrated the actual atrocities also Shia?

Was the decades long discrimination and humiliation of Bengalis that preceded this "operation searchlight" and which had become entrenched under Ayub Khan (was he also Shia?) also all done by the Shia heretics?

Is this all not a symptom of weltanschauung (the mental makeup which selects and filters facts before they reach the conscious brain)?

No amount of education can change the brainwashing that has made some people incapable of appreciating the facts! You see this happening over and over...

Another educated Pakistani requested me on another thread to help point him towards some sources and on being done that, we saw the same weltanschauung.

Psychologists say that even hard facts can be denied when people subscribe to a radically different vision of the world. A glimpse of the current Pakistani weltanschauung — the mental makeup which selects and filters facts before they reach the conscious brain.

Why do they pick on us Pakistanis? – The Express Tribune

 

[kalu_miah]

Cross posted from 1971 thread as it is relevant here, this is great new info, all Bangladeshi's and Pakistani's should see this:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...-east-pakistan-bangladesh-97.html#post4854795

@asad71 Bhai, thanks for posting the article above. It mentions Khalid Hasan, a close associate of Bhutto. Here is what he had to say:

Did Bhutto break up Pakistan? -DAWN - Books and Authors; December 15, 2002
1971: what went wrong :

According to him Yahya Khan's personal ambition and unwillingness to give up power to elected representatives was responsible for the breakup of Pakistan.

After reading the above two, I got the distinct feeling that Pakistan Army top generals were not very close to Bhutto, so he could not have been party to the planning process of Operation Searchlight. So in a way Khalid Hasan's views and mine matches that Yahya Khan and the generals who were involved in planning Operation Searchlight were largely responsible for the break up of Pakistan, Bhutto's role was negligible and indirect. Not all Generals agreed, and they were relieved of duty.

The reason for planning this operation was to neutralize Awami League activists who have started killing of Bihari's from early March, 1971. My personal view is that the leaders that were leading at that time from both sides, did not understand the implications of their actions. Awami League activists were guilty for targeting Bihari's, but deploying Army to crush criminal acts by a small unruly section of Awami League, was an over reaction. Law enforcement problems should have been solved by local law enforcement personnel, not Armed forces flown in from the Western wing to disarm and neutralize essentially all Bengali armed men in all branches of govt. That precisely was the mistake that sparked a war of resistance and independence.

In an affidavit Yahya Khan admits that he was the one who decided to go ahead with Operation Searchlight to use the Army to crush the uprising, although he himself blames Bhutto and India, but not Mujib, for the breakup of Pakistan, still being delusional about the gravity of what he had done:

Let us make Pakistan Better

"After a long spell of illness, this military ruler finally breathed his last in August 1980 in the house of his brother Muhammed Ali in Lahore.

In his affidavit, Yahya Khan states how the government had been pushed back against the wall. Awami League President Sheikh Mujibur Rahman gained immense power and Yahya Khan could not accept his attitude. He says that Mujib had brought the administration to a standstill. This was unacceptable, intolerable. This was a rebellion against the government. He says that there was no alternative to military action against this uprising. He says he did not launch Operation Searchlight on March 25, 1971 at the behest of Bhutto or anyone else. He issued these order in his capacity as President and Army Chief in order to quell the uprising.

Yahya Khan, in this document, is unwilling to accept that the cessation of East Pakistan and the surrender of the Pakistan army as a military defeat. He says this is was a naked conspiracy of India. He berates India and Russia for their role in this regard and has all gratitude for the United States and China for their support. He terms Mujib as a patriot, but says that Awami League had a section of radical leftists who were instigating him.They did not want to relinquish the opportunity to materialise India's long cherished dream of breaking up Pakistan.

According to Yahya Khan, it was Tikka Khan who issued the orders to capture Mujib dead or alive. Bhutto had wanted to hang Mujib. Mujib was prepared to change his six-point demand if necessary. The news of America's Seventh Fleet and China's involvement in the war were rumours. Yahya claims that in the end he wanted to leave East Pakistan's power in the hands of Awami League."

It looks like I am agreeing Yahya Khan at least on this point, that Mujib did not want breakup of Pakistan, unlike some radical leftists within his party. Yahya Khan blames Bhutto and India for the breakup, but I personally blame Yahya Khan and other planners and executors of Operation Searchlight.

 

[Vinod2070]

Yahya Khan, in this document, is unwilling to accept that the cessation of East Pakistan and the surrender of the Pakistan army as a military defeat. He says this is was a naked conspiracy of India. He berates India and Russia for their role in this regard and has all gratitude for the United States and China for their support.

Its getting more confusing than ever!

So the Shia Yahya Khan ( along with the Shia Bhutto) seems to be on the same side as USA and China and opposed to India and USSR!

So what's the latest on this?

Does that still make India the bigger enemy (even if it was the enemy of the enemy as well)?

 

[extra terrestrial]

I am reviving this old thread to make several points.

1. This recent riot in Muzaffarnagar in India reinforced my ideas about Partition in 1947. Muslim lives are not safe in a majority Hindu India and it would have been the same if Partition did not happen, even if we had 35% Muslim in an undivided India. So today I unreservedly thank Quad-i-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah as our savior and leader who created Pakistan and created two future homelands for Muslims of South Asia, away from the dirty hand of Hindu majoritarian oppression. Even if he was a Shia, what he has done was for the greater interest of all Muslims in then Pakistan, so he should be hailed as a hero to us all. Without him, there would be no Pakistan, no East Pakistan and no Bangladesh.

2. There are some Pakistani's in this forum who either have some personal issues connected with 1971 war and want to propagate the myth that Bengali's of East Pakistan betrayed West Pakistani's and Mohajer's in East Pakistan by shaking hands with an enemy state India. If one studies history, if one does their own research, the facts one uncovers, point to the other direction. This thread has sufficient details about this, if one is curious they can go through this from the beginning. The conclusion I reached are in this post:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...hat-does-mean-our-history-23.html#post4090882



The Ford foundation and US role in coming up with the 6 point bit is questionable, it is just one of the theories. And Operation Searchlight, the key mistake that broke Pakistan, was planned by none other than a Shia general Yahya Khan with the consent of a Shia politician Bhutto.

3. All that is past history. I have no personal interest in bringing it up. For the future of our country and people, for the greater interest of the Muslim world, I support improving relations between Bangladesh and Pakistan, the 3rd and 2nd largest Muslim country after the largest, Indonesia. Both countries need to move on, towards the future and not remained obsessed with the past, which is detrimental for both.

4. And I do not support Bangladesh going under any kind of Nuclear shield from Pakistan, that is an absolute no-no, people who mention or support such idea should know that overwhelming majority of Bangladesh population will oppose any such move by any quarter. Not only will they loose their political support, any officials even uttering such nonsense may loose their job or position. It is a complete non-starter.

Jinnah was, no doubt, a great leader but not for all the Muslims of the sub continent. He was reluctant in listening to the problems of Bengali Muslims and was somewhat racially partial towards the Muslims of northern and western sub continent. Leaders like A K Fazlul Haq, Suhrawardy, Abul Hashim realized this to some extent, Fazlul Haq stood firm against Jinnah which is why he was left segregated in Muslim politics until 1950s. Suhrawardy and Hashim tried to establish independent Bengal but when it failed they had to return under the umbrella of Jinnah. Then again there were some pure sycophants of Jinnah like Nazimuddin, Nurul Amin, Akram Kha to ball up all those things.

 

[kalu_miah]

Jinnah was, no doubt, a great leader but not for all the Muslims of the sub continent. He was reluctant in listening to the problems of Bengali Muslims and was somewhat racially partial towards the Muslims of northern and western sub continent. Leaders like A K Fazlul Haq, Suhrawardy, Abul Hashim realized this to some extent, Fazlul Haq stood firm against Jinnah which is why he was left segregated in Muslim politics until 1950s. Suhrawardy and Hashim tried to establish independent Bengal but when it failed they had to return under the umbrella of Jinnah. Then again there were some pure sycophants of Jinnah like Nazimuddin, Nurul Amin, Akram Kha to ball up all those things.

Good points. May be you are referring to the fact that some of us believe that if Jinnah was more sympathetic to Bengal Muslims, he would probably get a better and bigger landmass for the Eastern wing. I don't know the details to comment about this.

None of the other leaders were of Jinnah's stature and none played a role like Jinnah. Jinnah created Pakistan and from which Bangladesh emerged, so we are bound to express our gratitude to him for his contribution. Giving credit where it is due is the least we can do, to be fair about history.

The fact that he was not a Bengali or did not have too much sympathy for us Bengal Muslims should not matter on this point.

I have read that since 1947, Jinnah started recruiting more Bengali's in armed forces and civilian govt. on a priority basis to offset the imbalance created by the British Martial race theory, but this was reversed by Ayub Khan, after military takeover of the govt. Ayub Khan, a firm believer in the British taught race theory, apparently did not have high opinion of Bengali's and he was mainly responsible for low recruitment of Bengali's in armed forces and other branches of govt., which created the background for political discontent of Bengali's in Pakistan.

There is an Indian idiot who seem to stalk every thread where I post, trying to malign whatever opinions I have. I will just say a few words about what Vali Nasr said about Shia role in formation of Pakistan and running of state affairs. Before the take over of Zia-ul-Haq, essentially Pakistan was run by an elite that was dominated by Shia sect, both Urdu speaking Bengali, Hindustani and from West Pakistan. Iskander Mirza and Mohammad Ali Bogra were both Shia. So the Shia factor was not insignificant in then Pakistan. Although they got sidelined since fall of Bhutto, they still play a significant role in running of Pakistan:
Shia Islam in Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[extra terrestrial]

Good points. May be you are referring to the fact that some of us believe that if Jinnah was more sympathetic to Bengal Muslims, he would probably get a better and bigger landmass for the Eastern wing. I don't know the details to comment about this.

None of the other leaders were of Jinnah's stature and none played a role like Jinnah. Jinnah created Pakistan and from which Bangladesh emerged, so we are bound to express our gratitude to him for his contribution. Giving credit where it is due is the least we can do, to be fair about history.

The fact that he was not a Bengali or did not have too much sympathy for us Bengal Muslims should not matter on this point.

Well, it doesn't matter if someone is sympathetic or not, what matter is that what has he done! Personally, I would have revered Jinnah a lot more if he had explicitly supported the independent Bengal pan and when it failed, he should have supported the independence of East Bengal. If he really wanted to do something for the Bengalis he would have never pushed for the inclusion of Bengal into Pakistan. The only thing Jinnah wanted was the strongest possible Pakistan against India, even if it's at expense of Bengalis' interests. You may know, the Lahore Resolution initially proposed for two separate Muslim states in western and north eastern sub-continent, it was a win-win situation for all the Muslims and hence all the Bengali Muslim leaders supported it. But Jinnah changed the "two states" proposal into "one state" just at the last moment when the independent Bengal plan failed. Why did he do that? The proposal also kept many leaders like Suhrawardy in illusion, they always thought there will be an independent state in Bengal, it was reflected in the speeches by Suhrawardy during the partition period.

I have read that since 1947, Jinnah started recruiting more Bengali's in armed forces and civilian govt. on a priority basis to offset the imbalance created by the British Martial race theory, but this was reversed by Ayub Khan, after military takeover of the govt. Ayub Khan, a firm believer in the British taught race theory, apparently did not have high opinion of Bengali's and he was mainly responsible for low recruitment of Bengali's in armed forces and other branches of govt., which created the background for political discontent of Bengali's in Pakistan.

As far as I know, there were some Bengali personnels in armed forces but they started to recruit more after the 1965 war when many Bengali officers caught their eye and won some gallantry awards. But Bengalis have always been deprived of higher ranks and yes, Martial Race mentality was the main reason behind this. About the political discontent, it was always there, more precisely since 1949 when the BPC was formulated.

There is an Indian idiot who seem to stalk every thread where I post, trying to malign whatever opinions I have. I will just say a few words about what Vali Nasr said about Shia role in formation of Pakistan and running of state affairs. Before the take over of Zia-ul-Haq, essentially Pakistan was run by an elite that was dominated by Shia sect, both Urdu speaking Bengali, Hindustani and from West Pakistan. Iskander Mirza and Mohammad Ali Bogra were both Shia. So the Shia factor was not insignificant in then Pakistan. Although they got sidelined since fall of Bhutto, they still play a significant role in running of Pakistan:
Shia Islam in Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Frankly, those shia factors don't seem that influential to me. I have a shia friend and I only got to know that he's a shia when we had the Jumma prayer together, apart from the prayers, I could hardly find any differences between him and me.

 

[Vinod2070]

I think it is a sign of cowardliness to take cheap potshots and not reply directly to people.

People need to get rid of their wet dreams of "bigger and better landmass". They have fared much better than any other example whether you take Spain or Greece...

The only practical way for all neighbors is to recognize that we need to work with each other to improve the lot of our poor people and not remain bound to the some false fantasies.