After the Syrian Pullback: What Next for U.S. Middle East Policy?

[Yankee-stani]

This will ultimately hurt the US interests in the long run.
Betraying a big state that fought besides you in Korea, Yugoslavia, Cold War, Afghanistan and many more in alomst 7 decades for the sake of a couple rag tags just because some lobbies are distubed with it is never a good idea.
Espacially if that ally sits in such a strategic location where any change of sides could shit the power center of the world dramatically.

This might sound fat fetched yet it only need a small nudge to start a domino effect.

This will ultimately hurt the US interests in the long run.
Betraying a big state that fought besides you in Korea, Yugoslavia, Cold War, Afghanistan and many more in alomst 7 decades for the sake of a couple rag tags just because some lobbies are distubed with it is never a good idea.
Espacially if that ally sits in such a strategic location where any change of sides could shit the power center of the world dramatically.

This might sound fat fetched yet it only need a small nudge to start a domino effect.

The problem is there is disconnect between the American public and their govt its all controlled by Lobbies I agree for example when I bought up Turkey is not a enemy of the west to a group of lets say hicks in Uni a couple years back all we jacking off to the Kurds and their female rag tag militia again American public is duped into supporting that but I see Turkey needs to balance ties

 

[xenon54 out]

The problem is there is disconnect between the American public and their govt its all controlled by Lobbies I agree for example when I bought up Turkey is not a enemy of the west to a group of lets say hicks in Uni a couple years back all we jacking off to the Kurds and their female rag tag militia again American public is duped into supporting that but I see Turkey needs to balance ties

The Western population is living under constant propaganda of ''being the righteous ones in the ME'' so if the US and Europe support ypg then they must be the good guys right?

 

[vi-va]

Are you a US citizen mate ?

I can be a citizen the moment I want.

 

[Yankee-stani]

The Western population is living under constant propaganda of ''being the righteous ones in the ME'' so if the US and Europe support ypg then they must be the good guys right?

I dont like Erdogan for his policies but most American conflate him with him and his issues with the Kurds they see Turks as backwards while Kurds are these progressive bunch while they lack the understanding the Kurds do FGM,honor killings etc than Turks also you could see birth rates of Turkey as a nation your average Turk is more closer to the west culturally espacilly ones living in the western provinces than lets say Kurd living in the southeast bordering Iraq and Syria hence why Erdogan in the past used them as vote bank to get elected again and again

 

[xenon54 out]

I dont like Erdogan for his policies but most American conflate him with him and his issues with the Kurds they see Turks as backwards while Kurds are these progressive bunch while they lack the understanding the Kurds do FGM,honor killings etc than Turks also you could see birth rates of Turkey as a nation your average Turk is more closer to the west culturally espacilly ones living in the western provinces than lets say Kurd living in the southeast bordering Iraq and Syria hence why Erdogan in the past used them as vote bank to get elected again and again

Thats the pit that the American fall into every single time, throught the history every failure was thanks to ignoring the ground realities and living in their own fantasy world where they think they know it all.

Look at the disasterous US policy in the ME since god knows when, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Libya all were monumental failures, its like they are destined to repeat the mistakes of their British ancestors.

 

[Ritual]

If the West really wants to counter China it needs to pry Moscow back Russia is also in decline for different reasons but China is helping the in a sort of "marriage of convenience" situation if the west and America wants to counter China and in the Mid East Iran they need to pry Moscow back but its getting doubtful that would happen anytime soon

That’s true, I think a lot of people don’t realise just how Westernised a lot of Russian youth is & the middle classes aren’t big fans of Putin either. I studied with some Russian students and they really weren’t interested in global alliances or going to war for Putin. I think if the West managed the 90s better, Russia could have been very different now.

 

[vi-va]

Thats the pit that the American fall into every single time, throught the history every failure was thanks to ignoring the ground realities and living in their own fantasy world where they think they know it all.

Look at the disasterous US policy in the ME since god knows when, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Libya all were monumental failures, its like they are destined to repeat the mistakes of their British ancestors.

It's all designed to destroy major power in ME, so that Israel is safe. While in the end of day, Turkey is too strong in the eyes of Israel.

 

[xenon54 out]

It's all designed to destroy major power in ME, so that Israel is safe. While in the end of day, Turkey is too strong in the eyes of Israel.

Thats the elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about because this would be considered anti-semitic novadays but lets be real for a second, there are two states that can stand in front of Israeli ambitions in ME whatever it might be. One is Turkey the other Iran now guess which two get the most pressure currently.

Those two are too big to invade like the other smaller ones so other options are being used currently, why else would the Americans say they will continue to sanction Turkey even if it stopped the operation completely?

But thats also another typical American mistake, not only do those sanctions push Turkey further away it also pushes it towards self-sufficiency, and on top of that it shows Turkey that theres nothing to loose so why stop the operation at all?

 

[Yankee-stani]

That’s true, I think a lot of people don’t realise just how Westernised a lot of Russian youth is & the middle classes aren’t big fans of Putin either. I studied with some Russian students and they really weren’t interested in global alliances or going to war for Putin. I think if the West managed the 90s better, Russia could have been very different now.

Same goes with a lot of Turkish Youth and middle classes most of them are not interested in Pak-Turk Dosti brotherhood, Syria and etc nonsense like that in fact a lot of them are westernised than their fore fathers in fact once Erdogan retires I believe that bloc of younger voters will be more influential the last few elections the AKP support has dwindled but thanks to their control of the media appratus and oilgarchs backing the govt the so "called" support he gets however I think there is distrust with western institutions in the west itself which has shown the Russians and Turks that not all things are rosy in the west you can like western pop culture,Mc Donalds and Hollywood but despise their govts anyways the West made two blunders encircle the Russians from the former Soviet bloc and suporting regime change in Ukraine, Georgia etc and as for Turkey supporting the PKK/PYD

It's all designed to destroy major power in ME, so that Israel is safe. While in the end of day, Turkey is too strong in the eyes of Israel.

Exactly Israel is next to very weak neighbors but competing regional powers it does not want that so why not milk the American aid and large Jewish diaspora also the large support from American Evangelalicals in the midwest and south buoys that support

Thats the elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about because this would be consideres anti semitic novadays but lets be real for a second, there are two states that can stand in front of Iraeli ambitions in ME whatever it might be. One is Turkey the other Iran now guess which two get the most pressure currently.

Those two are too big to invade like the other smaller ones so other options are being used currently, why else would the Americans say they will continue to sanction Turkey even if it stopped the operation completely?

But thats also another typical American mistake, not only do those sanctions push Turkey further away it also pushes it towards self-sufficiency, and on top of that it shows Turkey that theres nothing to loose so why stop the operation at all?

Same crap they do they dont understand they are pushing potential allies to rival powers

 

[xenon54 out]

Same crap they do they dont understand they are pushing potential allies to rival powers

The only reason why Turkey kick-started its national defence industry are the sanctions after Cyprus conflict, the steps taken after that are the foundation of the defence industry of Turkey today.

Before that Turkey trusted NATO as its supplier, there are exsamples like closing plane factories that were established during Atatürk era, it took Turks a while to understand what a big mistake it was.

 

[Yankee-stani]

The only reason why Turkey kick-started its national defence industry are the sanctions after Cyprus conflict, the steps taken after that are the foundation of the defence industry of Turkey today.

Before that Turkey trusted NATO as its supplier and there are exsamples like closing plane factories that were founded established Atatürk era, it took Turks a while to understand what a big mistake it was.

I am well aware the distrust between Washington and Ankara are not new it goes back well before the AKP and the "Erdogonists" took power the 1974 invasion of Cyprus or liberation as the Turks called it was watershed moment for Turkey in terms of its relations sanctions were placed against a NATO ally a war right in the middle of the Cold War was between two NATO states in fact that same year you guys kicked the Yanks out of Incerlik and your relations with Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc nations actually thawed between 1974 and 1979 .1979 was an important year in Mid East and international geopolitics had the Soviets not invaded Afghanistan and the Iranian overthrow of the Shah had not happen Turkey would have broke away and become a Soviet allied state by the early 1980s

 

[Ritual]

Thats the elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about because this would be considered anti-semitic novadays but lets be real for a second, there are two states that can stand in front of Israeli ambitions in ME whatever it might be. One is Turkey the other Iran now guess which two get the most pressure currently.

Those two are too big to invade like the other smaller ones so other options are being used currently, why else would the Americans say they will continue to sanction Turkey even if it stopped the operation completely?

But thats also another typical American mistake, not only do those sanctions push Turkey further away it also pushes it towards self-sufficiency, and on top of that it shows Turkey that theres nothing to loose so why stop the operation at all?

If the US continued to push Turkey away, and Europe, while declining in influence, still deals unfairly with Turkey constantly, how do you see Turkey going after Erdogan? I think Turkey could be quite independent & influential and Istanbul a natural centre of finance & trade for Eastern Europe & Mid East - but overall just lacking in natural resources.

 

[xenon54 out]

I recommend you to watch this english interview with Bülent Ecevit regarding Cyprus, NATO, Soviet Union, Incirlik Airbase etc.

If the US continued to push Turkey away, and Europe, while declining in influence, still deals unfairly with Turkey constantly, how do you see Turkey going after Erdogan? I think Turkey could be quite independent & influential and Istanbul a natural centre of finance & trade for Eastern Europe & Mid East - but overall just lacking in natural resources.

Turkey has the geography as its biggest ressource, thanks to it it can afford to be independent enough not to give in to current threatenings.

 

[Yankee-stani]

Before that Turkey trusted NATO as its supplier, there are exsamples like closing plane factories that were established during Atatürk era, it took Turks a while to understand what a big mistake it was.

[/QUOTE]

Wow nice pictures I think it was mistake for Ismet Inonu to scrap this air defense projects you guys were on par with Soviets back then in the 30s and 40s imagine had you guys reached the jet age instead short term leaders like Inonu did not see potential I think Ataturk's legacy got tainted by Inonu Ataturk should have had a better leader to succeed him but sadly no

I recommend you to watch this english interview with Bülent Ecevit regarding Cyprus, NATO, Soviet Union, Incirlik Airbase etc.

Bulent Ecevit was probably the finest statesmen produced after Ataturk I have more respect for him than Erdogan who I see as lucky watermellon seller probably the last decent person from the left wing leaders

 

[xenon54 out]

Wow nice pictures I think it was mistake for Ismet Inonu to scrap this air defense projects you guys were on par with Soviets back then in the 30s and 40s imagine had you guys reached the jet age instead short term leaders like Inonu did not see potential I think Ataturk's legacy got tainted by Inonu Ataturk should have had a better leader to succeed him but sadly no

It even had export success to a European country, it must have been Denmark or Belgium if im not wrong.