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After Sukhoi 'mistake', India to go for Russian 5th-generation fighter only on full-tech transfer pa

Ever since Secy Hillary Clinton visited India to push for F-35, it was clear there was no way for India to select anything else as the major fighter ac. India is deep into the Yankee's pocket to make independent decision in such crucial deals.
Come with some fresh logic..
No USA fighter were chosen during MMRCA or would be chosen for single engine jet contest..
F35 might be considered in future cause it already have carrier version.Although probability is almost NIL.
India will do what suits it's concerns irrespective of country choice...
 
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When PAF examined Su-27 in the early 1990's one of the reason they turned it down was the very poor availability rate. The MKI has the best of any variant. And it sucks.
back in 1990s all soviet planes had the spares problem and it didn;t end until around 2000-2004
 
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We originally received standard Su-30MKs while our government and industry worked with the Russians to develop the more advanced Su-30MKI....To complete with ability like thrust-vectoring engines and canard foreplanes it ended up using electronic systems from countries like a Russian NIIP N-011 radar and long-range IRST sensor, French navigation and heads-up display systems from Thales, Israeli electronic warfare systems and LITENING advanced targeting pods, and Indian computers and ancillary avionics systems.That is the main reason cost went well above than the first ordered..

I am not criticizing the cost issue as I understand that Su- provide certain flexibilities in avionics which I think no other jet in Indian inventory can provide & it was the Jet which actually establish Indian Aviation Industry at 4 gen standards, these two things alone justify the additional cost of production ....

I was just rubbing salt to some known Indian BIG mouth here .... nothing serious ...
 
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Were you Sleeping when India REJECTED F18s ( and Then F16s ) while going ahead for 36 ( actually its over 150 ) Rafales ?



Logistics Pact <> Defence Pact for Weapons

Apply Logic, Even Israel CANNOT access F22s , Pakistan CANNOT access J20 !
Why you entertain them, let them have a field day in whatever way they can as they don't have much to do anyways.

even if we discount kind of reporting by ToI (your points duly noted @RISING SUN @XiNiX ), there are a few facts that we need to consider here:
1. FGFA project was conceived in early 2000s much earlier to Indo US 123 agreement. Geopolitical situations were very different then and India effectively had only one choice or chance of getting a Fifth Generation aircraft viz a T-50 derivative. Russia offered India a chance to work and improve its competencies in aerospace industry by sharing some workload. India had money and at that time it was the best thing India could hope for.
2. After 2008/9 when 123 agreement allowed India to interact with rest of the world in restricted technology areas, our options grew. The fact that US surpassed Russia in less than a decade from there to becoming leading arms supplier tells a lot.
3. The basic platform Su-50 has had several technical issues which IAF had raised and it is becoming increasingly clear to even Indian Government that Russia needs to clarify a road map for settlement of these issues before India commits to joint development and production. Going by recent signals on India willing to buy only 60-70 fighters and subsequently Russia offering Su-50 as stopgap arrangement shows not all is well or going as per plan for the project.
4. One of most discomforting things right now is Russia's own dragging of feet on the project and not concentrating full energies on T-50. Doesn't send good signals to a prospective partner.

The thoughts of India getting or considering F-35 may or may not be true, but fact remains, India needs 4.5 generation fighters to deal with threats in region. China hasn't started to field J-20(or 31) along Indian borders and India needs to makeup for attrition on account of retirement of legacy MiG fighters in next decade for which right now LCA Mark 1 (&IA) / Single engine fighter and Rafale remain best options. with limiting budgets and requirement of AWACS and MAR becoming more and more pressing, it is becoming clearer that India hasn't got a fifth generation fighter as its prime focus. 5 years from now when MKI program would've wound up and picture becoming clearer on LCA / Single engine platform & Rafale getting settled in IAF strategy, maybe we will be in a position to make a proper move on issue of fifth generation fighter. But till that time, expect more window shopping.


well said!


Sir, nobody knows if India has formally been offered F-35 yet.
NATO nations have their orders lined up and we are not even sure when F35 would arrive assuming we sign a contract for F35 (hypothetical scenario) today.
But i suppose India is trying to buy some time, before committing to any future platform.
I might not have been able to put the thoughts so clearly as you have explained. Fully agreed with your viewpoints, Sir.
 
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nobody just gives tot and tech away like that even its it for billions. and with india leaning to the west and the usn calling india for port then the risk for tech leaks are high. why doesnt india ask for full tot for the rafale?
@Taygibay @Vergennes

Your prose is backwards on logic, matey!
India did ask and was told no ... even if it's for billions.

I posted a link about that in the Rafale thread and was
expecting to be up to my bass in angry Bharatiyas but
to no avail. I must have been too subtle or something.

There is no such thing as integral transfer of technology.
Believing it possible only binds those that do.

Have a great day mate and all, Tay.
 
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Getting full tech transfer of FGFA from russians is equivilant of Japan getting full tech transfer of the F35. it might be a possibility but it will not happen
 
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India learnt how to send rockets onto orbit using their own people and technology

They set up the biggest software outsourcing industry in the world by themselves now giving India 80billion dollars each year in exports.

The lesson you Pakistanis are correct nobody gives technology's

India will not get fgfa technology
And India will not buy downgraded pak fa.

Ultimately just like lca and above examples indians will build amca themselves and buy more rafale until 2030

Pak fa will die a slow death just like the Mig35 . Without big orders either from China or India the Russian aerospace industry will shrink to also ran

They are slowly but surely losing the Indian market to

France
Israel
Usa
Indian indengious weapons

This trend will continue
 
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Your prose is backwards on logic, matey!
India did ask and as told no ... even if it's for billions.

I posted a link about that in the Rafale thread and was
expecting to be up to my bass in angry Bharatiyas but
to no avail. I must have been too subtle or something.

There is no such thing as integral transfer of technology.
Believing it possible only binds those that do.

Have a great day mate and all, Tay.
thats my point, india ask for full tot and was told what to do, what make the russain deal any different ?
basically they want an indian t-50 designed by the russains and built entirely by the indians along with their kit.

thats not gonna happen, best case scenario they build them locally as kits and the less critical equipment made in india which is like a license.

oh and dont you worry, i am having a great day, today is the the best (sunniest) day of year.you have a good day to.
 
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so after assembling them for decade at four times the cost they haven't learned anything...So what with those claims of some parts being manufactured here from raw material LOL!!
 
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so after assembling them for decade at four times the cost they haven't learned anything...So what with those claims of some parts being manufactured here from raw material LOL!!
Air frame,tyres & such many things are produced in India mate..
 
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Your prose is backwards on logic, matey!
India did ask and as told no ... even if it's for billions.

I posted a link about that in the Rafale thread and was
expecting to be up to my bass in angry Bharatiyas but
to no avail. I must have been too subtle or something.

There is no such thing as integral transfer of technology.
Believing it possible only binds those that do.

Have a great day mate and all, Tay.

There is more to it. Many wont understand, but Even if There was 100% ToT, can India ABSORB it ?
 
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36 ( actually its over 150 ) Rafales

I don't know too much about the Rafale deal, except that we ordered 36 against the initial requirement of around 130 or so. Why do you feel the eventual order will be as high as 150?
 
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I don't know too much about the Rafale deal, except that we ordered 36 against the initial requirement of around 130 or so. Why do you feel the eventual order will be as high as 150?

India only ordered 36 rafales for now due to 3 reasons

1. The plane is dam expensive at over $135 million each with weapons loads
2. The MOD wanted to Push IAF to accept 123 Tejas mk1 & 1a anf felt massive order for rafele would kill IAF thirst for Tejas
3. IAF still undecided about FGFA from Russia. so delibertely kept order at $8.5 billion to save funds for potential FGFA order in 5 years time.
 
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NEW DELHI: India will go in for the multi-billion dollar joint development and production of a fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) with Russia only if there is full-scale transfer of technology as well as "benefits" for the indigenous effort to build a futuristic stealth fighter.

What is the different from asking Russia to sell they Aviation defense industry to India ? :lol: If Money is only thing smelling, Russia can also sell their engines technology to China...no nations want to create a future competitor...Indians are just delude themselves.
 
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