After Sukhoi 'mistake', India to go for Russian 5th-generation fighter only on full-tech transfer pa

[punit]

100cr *272=27200cr and still we haven't got anything substantial.

we got 272 birds .. one of the best in its class.

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

Were you Sleeping when India REJECTED F18s ( and Then F16s ) while going ahead for 36 ( actually its over 150 ) Rafales ?



Logistics Pact <> Defence Pact for Weapons

Apply Logic, Even Israel CANNOT access F22s , Pakistan CANNOT access J20 !

Why you Indians are so confident that India will not consider F-35 over PAK-FA? Its the best available jet around. Also you may ink F16 assembly deal with US which seemed impossible a decade back.

 

[asad71]

Were you Sleeping when India REJECTED F18s ( and Then F16s ) while going ahead for 36 ( actually its over 150 ) Rafales ?



Logistics Pact <> Defence Pact for Weapons

Apply Logic, Even Israel CANNOT access F22s , Pakistan CANNOT access J20 !

That's how your leaders fool you.

 

[Chanakyaa]

Why you Indians are so confident that India will not consider F-35 over PAK-FA? Its the best available jet around. Also you may ink F16 assembly deal with US which seemed impossible a decade back.

Its NOT abt F35 or PAK FA.
Its no longer about the Machine in India. Its about the MOST SUITABLE machine, in the real sense.

So, Indian Navy might go for F 35 if they need it. IAF may or may not, but personally i feel the F 35 time lines are the biggest concern.

That's how your leaders fool you.

What Leaders ? Plz Enlighten me.

 

[anant_s]

even if we discount kind of reporting by ToI (your points duly noted @RISING SUN @XiNiX ), there are a few facts that we need to consider here:
1. FGFA project was conceived in early 2000s much earlier to Indo US 123 agreement. Geopolitical situations were very different then and India effectively had only one choice or chance of getting a Fifth Generation aircraft viz a T-50 derivative. Russia offered India a chance to work and improve its competencies in aerospace industry by sharing some workload. India had money and at that time it was the best thing India could hope for.
2. After 2008/9 when 123 agreement allowed India to interact with rest of the world in restricted technology areas, our options grew. The fact that US surpassed Russia in less than a decade from there to becoming leading arms supplier tells a lot.
3. The basic platform Su-50 has had several technical issues which IAF had raised and it is becoming increasingly clear to even Indian Government that Russia needs to clarify a road map for settlement of these issues before India commits to joint development and production. Going by recent signals on India willing to buy only 60-70 fighters and subsequently Russia offering Su-50 as stopgap arrangement shows not all is well or going as per plan for the project.
4. One of most discomforting things right now is Russia's own dragging of feet on the project and not concentrating full energies on T-50. Doesn't send good signals to a prospective partner.

The thoughts of India getting or considering F-35 may or may not be true, but fact remains, India needs 4.5 generation fighters to deal with threats in region. China hasn't started to field J-20(or 31) along Indian borders and India needs to makeup for attrition on account of retirement of legacy MiG fighters in next decade for which right now LCA Mark 1 (&IA) / Single engine fighter and Rafale remain best options. with limiting budgets and requirement of AWACS and MAR becoming more and more pressing, it is becoming clearer that India hasn't got a fifth generation fighter as its prime focus. 5 years from now when MKI program would've wound up and picture becoming clearer on LCA / Single engine platform & Rafale getting settled in IAF strategy, maybe we will be in a position to make a proper move on issue of fifth generation fighter. But till that time, expect more window shopping.

Its no longer about the Machine in India. Its about the MOST SUITABLE machine, in the real sense.

well said!

Ever since Secy Hillary Clinton visited India to push for F-35, it was clear there was no way for India to select anything else as the major fighter ac. India is deep into the Yankee's pocket to make independent decision in such crucial deals.

Sir, nobody knows if India has formally been offered F-35 yet.
NATO nations have their orders lined up and we are not even sure when F35 would arrive assuming we sign a contract for F35 (hypothetical scenario) today.
But i suppose India is trying to buy some time, before committing to any future platform.

 

[asad71]

Its NOT abt F35 or PAK FA.
Its no longer about the Machine in India. Its about the MOST SUITABLE machine, in the real sense.

So, Indian Navy might go for F 35 if they need it. IAF may or may not, but personally i feel the F 35 time lines are the biggest concern.



What Leaders ? Plz Enlighten me.

Modi, Amit Shah, Doval, etc

 

[Jugger]

we got 272 birds .. one of the best in its class.

Exactly, it's way better than anything Pakistan has at its disposal at present.
Even in the future Su-30s will be the real threat to PAF because it can be upgraded with better and bigger radars, avionics and missile packages. All this is possible due to the size of this aircraft.
Sukhoi 30s are extremely well designed aircrafts that will be relevant untill at least mid 2040.

 

[asad71]

even if we discount kind of reporting by ToI (your points duly noted @RISING SUN @XiNiX ), there are a few facts that we need to consider here:
1. FGFA project was conceived in early 2000s much earlier to Indo US 123 agreement. Geopolitical situations were very different then and India effectively had only one choice or chance of getting a Fifth Generation aircraft viz a T-50 derivative. Russia offered India a chance to work and improve its competencies in aerospace industry by sharing some workload. India had money and at that time it was the best thing India could hope for.
2. After 2008/9 when 123 agreement allowed India to interact with rest of the world in restricted technology areas, our options grew. The fact that US surpassed Russia in less than a decade from there to becoming leading arms supplier tells a lot.
3. The basic platform Su-50 has had several technical issues which IAF had raised and it is becoming increasingly clear to even Indian Government that Russia needs to clarify a road map for settlement of these issues before India commits to joint development and production. Going by recent signals on India willing to buy only 60-70 fighters and subsequently Russia offering Su-50 as stopgap arrangement shows not all is well or going as per plan for the project.
4. One of most discomforting things right now is Russia's own dragging of feet on the project and not concentrating full energies on T-50. Doesn't send good signals to a prospective partner.

The thoughts of India getting or considering F-35 may or may not be true, but fact remains, India needs 4.5 generation fighters to deal with threats in region. China hasn't started to field J-20(or 31) along Indian borders and India needs to makeup for attrition on account of retirement of legacy MiG fighters in next decade for which right now LCA Mark 1 (&IA) / Single engine fighter and Rafale remain best options. with limiting budgets and requirement of AWACS and MAR becoming more and more pressing, it is becoming clearer that India hasn't got a fifth generation fighter as its prime focus. 5 years from now when MKI program would've wound up and picture becoming clearer on LCA / Single engine platform & Rafale getting settled in IAF strategy, maybe we will be in a position to make a proper move on issue of fifth generation fighter. But till that time, expect more window shopping.


well said!


Sir, nobody knows if India has formally been offered F-35 yet.
NATO nations have their orders lined up and we are not even sure when F35 would arrive assuming we sign a contract for F35 (hypothetical scenario) today.
But i suppose India is trying to buy some time, before committing to any future platform.

You can be certain, ground work has been going on since ACM Browne took over. Your leaders are waiting for an opportune time to announce the induction. Meanwhile, ground is being prepared in IAF and other circles to accept and applaud.

 

[anant_s]

You can be certain, ground work has been going on since ACM Browne took over. Your leaders are waiting for an opportune time to announce the induction. Meanwhile, ground is being prepared in IAF and other circles to accept and applaud.

Maybe it is.
the point is why is India then keeping FGFA option open. Surely it is too much to operate 2 different 5th generation fighters operating in same time frame and that too coupled with India's domestic program of AMCA.
F35 brings in a lot of options for India such as its carrier operability for navy, but as i said earlier, is that offer really on table?

 

[Trango Towers]

So having seen Indians chest thumping on this forum about make in India and the capable DRDO it seems from the article that India in only assembling knock down kits. There is no foundation in DRDO for FGFA. They want to invest and have 100 percent tech transfer which means India doesn't know Jack.
That's how I am reading the article.... I am waiting for a good laugh from our Indian friends here who will spin this into the fact they are giving Russia technology. Still I await

 

[Super Falcon]

Russia won't sell tech to India due to USA love

 

[B@tt!eDoom]

If Russia wants to loose 25bn worth contract..Pity on them...

 

[T90TankGuy]

So having seen Indians chest thumping on this forum about make in India and the capable DRDO it seems from the article that India in only assembling knock down kits. There is no foundation in DRDO for FGFA. They want to invest and have 100 percent tech transfer which means India doesn't know Jack.
That's how I am reading the article.... I am waiting for a good laugh from our Indian friends here who will spin this into the fact they are giving Russia technology. Still I await

Your "reading " of the article is astounding , considering its HAL who assembles the kits and makes the su30mki platforms not DRDO.

 

[kempe]

No one will give full TOT , Parrikar and Modi know this. They are creating conditions to drop the FGFA deal and blame Russia.

 

[B@tt!eDoom]

So having seen Indians chest thumping on this forum about make in India and the capable DRDO it seems from the article that India in only assembling knock down kits. There is no foundation in DRDO for FGFA. They want to invest and have 100 percent tech transfer which means India doesn't know Jack.
That's how I am reading the article.... I am waiting for a good laugh from our Indian friends here who will spin this into the fact they are giving Russia technology. Still I await

Poor you...
It's just because local companies will be able to produce everything in no time & we will get royalty if we sell to any third party else there is no meaning to invest 50 50..
Our previous govt was worthless.We made a mistake during SU30.This is the reason we had been suffering due to lack of spares & had to import spares from Russia.That's why now we are going to sign pacts for improving license production of spares..

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ty-could-go-up-to-75/articleshow/50075387.cms