After insulting "Tiranga", Mehbooba Mufti raises doubts over Indian Army's response to China's Galwan instrusion

[jamahir]

Of course as stupidity sees no end. You can argue for sake of argument.

According to Google, Germany, Sweden, Norway and Denmark are Fatherlands. Are they stupids ?

In India, there is no two thoughts about calling it motherland, but you can see religious angles in father and mother as well.

Are you sure there are no two thoughts ? Then what is the controversy about ?

It starts with "Motherland" and then will become Bharat Mata of a certain imagery.

And why Motherland, why can't it be Homeland ( like the Americans say in "Homeland Security" ) or Fatherland ? What is so sacred and Natural about "Motherland" ? I say "Natural" because nations are anyway artificial, human constructs. I say this as a believer in communism.

I am fixated? I can proudly say both the phrases.

Then live and let live. Allow some to voice "Jai Hind".

 

[IMARV]

According to Google, Germany, Sweden, Norway and Denmark are Fatherlands. Are they stupids ?

No they are not.

The one trying to call those countries as motherland are, and the one trying to push for calling India as fatherland are. (Just to evoke rift)

Its about chosing a nomenclature by majority, and no one in India contest calling our land as mother because of our more affection toward our mothers.

Its cultural thing.

Are you sure there are no two thoughts ? Then what is the controversy about ?

Yes I am. Can you present any evidence of significant ask of calling India as fatherland?

It starts with "Motherland" and then will become Bharat Mata of a certain imagery.

Since Bharat Mata is no object with defined structure, anyone can make their own imagery. Not sure why you keep on repeating the same.

When you say Bharat Mata ki Jai, is it praising the land or the imagery?

And why Motherland, why can't it be Homeland ( like the Americans say in "Homeland Security" ) or Fatherland ? What is so sacred and Natural about "Motherland" ? I say "Natural" because nations are anyway artificial, human constructs. I say this as a believer in communism.

Trying to disguise your religious hate into some concocted logic now?

It can be homeland, fatherland, motherland or just land. But we all Indians voluntarily chose to call it motherland. What is the fuss around?

Then live and let live. Allow some to voice "Jai Hind".

No one deny it.

However one must keep an eye on fools who can easily be swayed, on trivial issues like this, by propagandist. They poses a risk especially in a healthy democracy.

 

[jamahir]

Its about chosing a nomenclature by majority

Hah hah, so a majoritarian imposition coming through demagoguery instead through rational discussion.

Since Bharat Mata is no object with defined structure, anyone can make their own imagery. Not sure why you keep on repeating the same.

Just Google for "Bharat Mata" and see for yourself what imagery is expected from the citizens to respect. It certainly is not "No object with defined structure". What imagery does the government project ?

Trying to disguise your religious hate into some concocted logic now?

Really ? You can do a search on this forum and see that in my six year membership I have been among those who speak vociferously against regressive Muslims and speak most in favor of pan-human solidarity.

However one must keep an eye on fools who can easily be swayed, on trivial issues like this, by propagandist.

What do you mean ?

They poses a risk especially in a healthy democracy.

Sorry but India is anything but a "healthy democracy". Remember the assassinations of the four progressives since 2013 ? One among other indicators.

 

[SuvarnaTeja]

I thought Super Power India does not fear China after watching Indian Media and Indian Tweets...

Because we believe in and follow this advise.

 

[Sharma Ji]

Hah hah, so a majoritarian imposition coming through demagoguery..

The slogan has been around a lot longer than Modi/BJP have been in power, what is all this talk about demagoguery ?

Not a majoritarian imposition either, rather, it is an organic evolution. This is how humans have been for a millennia.

The Sikhs don't have a problem with it, neither do the Christians, or the Parsis (our real minority). Hindus don't have a problem visiting dargahs or gurudwars or stupas. Everyone celebrates Holi and most love biriyani and kebabs.. I could go on forever citing examples of harmony between different groups here.

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Then there's this one very special group who has a problem with everyone else's everything and are totally closed off and insular, supremacist in their beliefs, stubbornly rigid in their thought process, and unwilling to adapt to a culture that is not 100% just their thing.

You're not going to get rid or conquer our culture here in India, man. Take me for example, 100% non religious but have a deep love for our culture and customs. My old lady, catholic by birth but vegan chef and yoga instructor otherwise keeps teaching me bits and bobs about dharma and this and that lol.

You're really coming across as some salafist loon with this militant opposition to a totally harmless slogan.

Bharat mata ki jai ! .. say it with pride bro, garv se bolo, zor se bolo, fir se bolo !

Wont make you any less of an anything you identify with if you say it.

 

[jamahir]

Not a majoritarian imposition either, rather, it is an organic evolution. This is how humans have been for a millennia.

How is it organic when a certain subset of India's population living here since Independence is not comfortable with that slogan since then and the slogan being most vocally used by another certain subset and not all ? And "humans" ? Which other historic nationality or culture voices that slogan ?

Hindus don't have a problem visiting dargahs or gurudwars or stupas.

And I have visited a gurdwara and eaten from the langar. No discomfort there. Also visited Hindu temples twice long ago. Visited a church Sunday sermon.

Everyone celebrates Holi and most love biriyani and kebabs..

And I eat Deccani Hindu cuisine.

You're not going to get rid or conquer our culture here in India, man.

When did I talk about conquering anything ?

My old lady, catholic by birth but vegan chef and yoga instructor otherwise keeps teaching me bits and bobs about dharma and this and that lol.

Sorry, your grandma or your ma ?

You're really coming across as some salafist loon with this militant opposition to a totally harmless slogan.

Can you tell me who is advocating that slogan most vocally ? And all that side talk about installing army tanks in JNU to instill "nationalism" in the students.

Bharat mata ki jai ! .. say it with pride bro, garv se bolo, zor se bolo, fir se bolo !

Wont make you any less of an anything you identify with if you say it.

As I said, you will find me happily saying "Jai Hind" instead of "Bharat Mata ki jai". No problem there. Why do you have objection to that ?

Is this the most important issue for you in India that we should discuss on an international forum ?

I will tag @Naofumi and @xeuss to take their view of the matter.

 

[Sharma Ji]

How is it organic when a certain subset of India's population living here since Independence is not comfortable with that slogan since then and the slogan being most vocally used by another certain subset and not all ? And "humans" ? Which other historic nationality or culture voices that slogan ?

"certain subset" need to adapt to the founding stock and their ways.

And I have visited a gurdwara and eaten from the langar. No discomfort there. Also visited Hindu temples twice long ago. Visited a church Sunday sermon.

And I eat Deccani Hindu cuisine.

Please share a pic of your actual certificate of secularism as well.

When did I talk about conquering anything ?

Should Indian/Hindu culture ever vanish, it will only have happened because it got conquered.

Sorry, your grandma or your ma ?

Feels like a bit of both sometimes

Can you tell me who is advocating that slogan most vocally ? And all that side talk about installing army tanks in JNU to instill "nationalism" in the students.

It's a harmless "long live our country" slogan, ok ?

not exclusionary or discriminatory or anything by any stretch, else there would have been other groups and sub groups of people voicing their concerns.. as it stands, only 1 very special group seems to have that big a problem with it.

are you just addicted to being a victim ?

No idea about installing tank displays in JNU but why not ? they do these things in parks and schools and public areas with 'gate guard/guardian' retired fighter jet dhanchas/skeletons/airframes.. looks cool.. and you commies are always dreaming of getting control of military assets to have your bloody revolution anyway...

 

[jamahir]

"certain subset" need to adapt to the founding stock and their ways.

Yaar, surely you too don't believe in the 'Out Of India' thing ?

Please share a pic of your actual certificate of secularism as well.

not exclusionary or discriminatory or anything by any stretch, else there would have been other groups and sub groups of people voicing their concerns.. as it stands, only 1 very special group seems to have that big a problem with it.

I will tell you in simple words. In Islam the idea of God is of a formless, timeless, singular presence and only this presence has to be worshiped. Bharat Mata presents herself as an overtly religious, polytheist entity introduced by the majority community from among whom some seek to impose this imagery on the Muslims and ask the Muslims to semi-worship it. There is a contradiction of religious belief and political existence.

and you commies are always dreaming of getting control of military assets to have your bloody revolution anyway...

Well, I observe that unlike 1917 Russia, 1950s Pakistan, 1960s Libya, 1980s Venezuela etc there are no left-wing elements in the Indian military. If there are either they have failed to act or they are plotting, I don't know.

 

[Sharma Ji]

Yaar, surely you too don't believe in the 'Out Of India' thing ?

I have ZERO interest in OOI vs AIT or even mughal or British Raj, in the sense that whatever happened has no bearing on my current outlook.

Off to the airport, will touch base later on the rest, tc.

 

[RAMPAGE]

The thing about tyranny is that it is not sustainable. The situation in Kashmir has become so bad that it has the improve. Democratic powers both within and without India will be obliged to challenge this injustice.

 

[Sharma Ji]

I will tell you in simple words. In Islam the idea of God is of a formless, timeless, singular presence and only this presence has to be worshiped. Bharat Mata presents herself as an overtly religious, polytheist entity introduced by the majority community from among whom some seek to impose this imagery on the Muslims and ask the Muslims to semi-worship it. There is a contradiction of religious belief and political existence.

Religious discussions are not allowed, already got a bit of a warning earlier on in this thread so can't really give a detailed reply but suffice it to say that even within the pantheon of Vedic Dharma and it's many philosophies.. there are similar ideas about a "formless, timeless, singular presence". Hinduism is also monotheistic in a sense.. big debate, I'm not qualified to say much on it anyway..

maybe @Nityam can shed some light on it. Brahmaand worship ?

Bharat Mata = Motherland, not presenting itself as an overtly religious anything. The Bhagwa ? of course it is a religious symbol, the slogan not so much. Sikhs, Parsis, Christians.. I've seen those people say it loudly and proudly.

Your opposition to it comes off poorly. Bad strategy, drop this issue, there's plenty other things for you to legitimately complain about as a communist muslim.

 

[Nityam]

Religious discussions are not allowed, already got a bit of a warning earlier on in this thread so can't really give a detailed reply but suffice it to say that even within the pantheon of Vedic Dharma and it's many philosophies.. there are similar ideas about a "formless, timeless, singular presence". Hinduism is also monotheistic in a sense.. big debate, I'm not qualified to say much on it anyway..

maybe @Nityam can shed some light on it. Brahmaand worship ?

Bharat Mata = Motherland, not presenting itself as an overtly religious anything. The Bhagwa ? of course it is a religious symbol, the slogan not so much. Sikhs, Parsis, Christians.. I've seen those people say it loudly and proudly.

Your opposition to it comes off poorly. Bad strategy, drop this issue, there's plenty other things for you to legitimately complain about as a communist muslim.

Communist muslim is an oxymoron.

They are mutually exclusive.