Afghanistan war 'lost cause,' says Pakistan's ex-intelligence chief

[Fighter488]

Afghanistan war 'lost cause,' says Pakistan's ex-intelligence chief​

By the CNN Wire Staff
August 6, 2010 -- Updated 0341 GMT (1141 HKT)

Islamabad, Pakistan (CNN) -- The U.S.-led war in Afghanistan is a "lost cause," said a former Pakistani intelligence chief, and the United States needs to negotiate peace with Taliban leader Mullah Omar. "You have to talk to him, and I'm sure it will work out very well," Lt. Gen. Hamid Gul told CNN's Fareed Zakaria in an interview to air Sunday.

U.S. intelligence documents published last week by WikiLeaks cited Gul and implicated Pakistani intelligence as supporting al Qaeda. Gul has denied the allegations. "I'm quite a convenient scapegoat," he said. "I don't support any one faction in Afghanistan. I support the Afghan nation."

The career military officer, who supported the U.S.-backed Taliban resistance against Soviet occupation during the 1980s, called the U.S. occupation of Afghanistan "unjust" and said he sees legitimacy in the Afghan insurgency against Western forces. "This is a national resistance movement. It should be recognized as such," he said. "They are Mujahedeen of Afghanistan as they were during the occupation of Afghanistan by the Soviet Union."

The attacks of September 11 were a pretext to a war already under consideration, Gul said. "I think some of the neocons, who were very close to President [George W.] Bush, they wanted that he could embark on a universal adventure of Pax Americana, and they thought that the world was lying prostrate in front of them," he said. The 2001 terrorist attacks helped win the public support for the neocon plans, he said.

There was no legitimate reason for the United States to attack Afghanistan, Gul said, because the FBI had no solid evidence that Osama bin Laden was involved in the attacks on New York and Washington. "Why has not a single individual connected to 9/11 been caught in America so far, and why hasn't Osama bin Laden been charged?" With no evidence anyone in Afghanistan was involved, there is no way to legitimize the U.S. occupation, Gul said.

The hunt for al-Qaeda does not justify the almost 9-year-old war either, because the global terrorist movement has moved on, Gul said. "The American strategists, the military thinkers, have got to wake up to the reality that al-Qaeda has succeeded in exhausting, drawing out into the wrong direction, to the wrong place, all the allied forces," Gul said, citing Yemen, Somalia and Africa. "For al-Qaeda the center of gravity all along was the Middle East."

The United States and its allies won't win the war in Afghanistan, said Gul, who referred to U.S. NATO allies as "pallbearers." Supply lines through Pakistan are shaky, said Gul, who blamed U.S. ally India for contributing to his country's destabilization. Combined with what Gul termed poor U.S. intelligence and a home-field advantage for the Taliban, it all adds up to a losing combination for the United States in his estimate. "Time is on the side of the resistance," he said.

"In such a situation, to hope to win would be absolutely hare-brained," Gul said. He expressed concern the U.S. military would never be willing to admit defeat. "I would advise President Obama -- please, do not listen to your military, because militaries have [the] unfortunate tendency never to accept their defeat. They will say if we receive more proceeds, if we receive more logistics, if we receive more funds, then we will be able to overcome. This is a psychological problem."

The only solution would be peace negotiations with Taliban leader Mullah Omar, not with Afghan President Hamid Karzai, Gul concluded. "There is only one man who can give the guarantee that there will be no terrorism exported from Afghanistan," Gul said. "Don't talk to Karzai; he's a puppet.

Omar represents the entire insurgency, Gul said. "There are other factions of resistance fighters coming under the banner of Mullah Omar." Scale down goals, negotiate with Omar, then move on and out of Afghanistan, was Gul's advice to the United States."​

Afghanistan war 'lost cause,' says Pakistan's ex-intelligence chief - CNN.com

 

[Iggy]

Fighter from some of your posts its clear that you dont agree with Afghan invasion..can you share your POV about Afghan taliban?do you think Afghnistan will be better of with them Taliban ruling them??

 

[Fighter488]

Fighter from some of your posts its clear that you dont agree with Afghan invasion..can you share your POV about Afghan taliban?do you think Afghnistan will be better of with them Taliban ruling them??

Seiko dear I repeatedly gave my POV on this forum about Iraq and Afghan invasions. My sole motto is LIVE AND LET LIVE.

Till Taliban do not prick peace in my country, or in any country, if that matters, why to make thier life a hell? Till date west has NOT placed any concrete evidence on 9/11 against Taliban or ALQAIDA. So why this murder and plunder of Afghanistan in the name of WOT?

I do not agree to Taliban style of governace. Definitely NOT! But then I also disagree with RSS and BJP type politics in my country. But it do not mean I am going to SUFFOCATE all those because they are against me! This is an example of true democracy . We live with people we do not like, as well as we live with people we like!

Look at Hamid Gul! He may be wrong in supporting Taliban according to your PoV and many others, but then his arguments are simple and straight! West has not placed a single shred of evidence against its self-created adversaries in Afghanistan, till date!

What happened in IRAQ, every one know! Blatant lies are are MADE as FACTS and TRUTHS, and used as justification to KILL AND MAIME hundreds of thousands (In millions actually) of innocent Iraqis!

Do you feel pain for this loss? If yes then why? If injustice is done to Iraq and its people, what in your opinion be the punishment for such CRIMINALS? Who will punish them? Do any one has the guts to do this?

Did you ever care to find answers to these questions?

When you find these answers, then believe me, you KNOW my PoV as well!

Fighter

 

[EjazR]

Well the Iraq war was certainly wrong but many willagree that Hamid Gul is more like a nutjob shaped by his experiences as an unhappy ex-intelligence chief.

There is more than ample proof of OBL basedin Afghanistan. Maybe the Taliban did not plan the 9/11 butunder their shelter they had Kashmir foccuseed terrorist groups training in Afghanistan. Similarly, OBL and his group United Islamic Front now more popularly known as Al Qaeda was announced in AFghanistan. He called a press conference publicising his twisted "fatwa" of justifying killing of American civlians. This was after Mulla Omar had given guarantees to the Saudis that he will keepOBL under wraps and will not allow Afghanistan as a laucnhpad for terror. But Kashmir centric terrorists groups were still training in Afghanistan and 9/11 happened. So Mullah Omar can not give this guarantee if he wanted.

OBL was not directly involved in day-to-day planning of 9/11 but Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was and he was indicted and punished. I think he needs to go thgouh the 9/11 Comission report.

 

[Iggy]

Fighter belive me I am not agreeing with the attack on Iraq..But Afghanistan its a different case..There were concrete evidence of Al Qaeda was behind the attacks and also Bin laden himself admitted that..Fighter you should know that those organisation was responsible for not only 9/11 but many other attacks all around the world..World will be much better with out them...Under Taliban it was well known that Al Qaeda made Afghanistan their head quarters to plan attacks on every part of the world..Like you said we can close our eyes till it hit us..and trust me brother..with Taliban in power in Afganistan ,sooner or later it will hit us..

 

[Fighter488]

Well the Iraq war was certainly wrong but many willagree that Hamid Gul is more like a nutjob shaped by his experiences as an unhappy ex-intelligence chief.

There is more than ample proof of OBL basedin Afghanistan. Maybe the Taliban did not plan the 9/11 butunder their shelter they had Kashmir foccuseed terrorist groups training in Afghanistan. Similarly, OBL and his group United Islamic Front now more popularly known as Al Qaeda was announced in AFghanistan. He called a press conference publicising his twisted "fatwa" of justifying killing of American civlians. This was after Mulla Omar had given guarantees to the Saudis that he will keepOBL under wraps and will not allow Afghanistan as a laucnhpad for terror. But Kashmir centric terrorists groups were still training in Afghanistan and 9/11 happened. So Mullah Omar can not give this guarantee if he wanted.

OBL was not directly involved in day-to-day planning of 9/11 but Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was and he was indicted and punished. I think he needs to go thgouh the 9/11 Comission report.

OK Ejaz agree to it to a great extent. But then how it justifies the entire invasion, occupation and plunder of a country hosting several million innocent civillians? OBL was wrong, Mulla Omar was wrong, few other bad apples; that's fine, but where is justification for what all is done and being done in Afghanistan?

 

[Fighter488]

Fighter belive me I am not agreeing with the attack on Iraq..But Afghanistan its a different case..There were concrete evidence of Al Qaeda was behind the attacks and also Bin laden himself admitted that..Fighter you should know that those organisation was responsible for not only 9/11 but many other attacks all around the world..World will be much better with out them...Under Taliban it was well known that Al Qaeda made Afghanistan their head quarters to plan attacks on every part of the world..Like you said we can close our eyes till it hit us..and trust me brother..with Taliban in power in Afganistan ,sooner or later it will hit us..

You did not give me answer to any single questions I put, dear seiko!

Now the whole world do not agree with Iraq war. But my questions remain un-answered. How justice would be done now and by whom?

And when you say that Taliban WOULD become a threat to India, you just prove a COPY-CAT of WOT logic and reasoning. No more than that!

 

[Iggy]

You did not give me answer to any single questions I put, dear seiko!

Now the whole world do not agree with Iraq war. But my questions remain un-answered. How justice would be done now and by whom?

And when you say that Taliban WOULD become a threat to India, you just prove a COPY-CAT of WOT logic and reasoning. No more than that!

Figther let me be clear to you that even though i dont agree with Iraq invasion i am not a big fan of Saddam Hussain too..the best thing now is to hold an election and give power to Iraqi people..may be US attacked them with fabricated reasons ...but we should move foreward..with the help of Arab countries and US ,Iraq can come back to his past glory..they have the natural resources that help them stand up ..Helping them to stand for their own is now the best way of justice..and for me every country in the world is responsible for it..


And for Taliban would become a threat..fighter even an increased presence of Taliban in our neighborhood is going to be an issue for us...No matter minorities like Christians and Muslims live in our country..for them we are all kaffirs and to be killed and they wont ask for religion before doing it..

 

[ek_indian]

Hmm....Hamid Gul. Is not the person a known supporter and sympathizer of Talibans?

 

[EjazR]

OK Ejaz agree to it to a great extent. But then how it justifies the entire invasion, occupation and plunder of a country hosting several million innocent civillians? OBL was wrong, Mulla Omar was wrong, few other bad apples; that's fine, but where is justification for what all is done and being done in Afghanistan?

Well the inital years was actually positive.Taliban were quickly removed from Afghanistan and reconstruction had started. Afghan aid was pouring in. The problem was because of the IRaq war all sorts of reconstruction effort was stopped. Warlords were given power instead of elected reps and then Taliban revived thanks to the lack of resources due to the IRaq war.


Personally I think it should be a regional force of SAARC, CAR countries including China Iran and Russia stabilising Afghanistan rather than NATO which are here from halfway around the world. But the problem is that these countries are not united and arevictimg of mutal suspicion and hostility.

 

[GUNNER]

Personally I think it should be a regional force of SAARC, CAR countries including China Iran and Russia stabilising Afghanistan rather than NATO which are here from halfway around the world. But the problem is that these countries are not united and arevictimg of mutal suspicion and hostility.

I don't think replacing NATO/ISAF troops with anyother foreign force would help, even though it may comprise of neighbouring countries.

It will not be welcome either because of obvious ethnic & sectarian issues that plague the Afghan society. It's not practical either as you mentioned.

Perhaps a UN Mission might help.

 

[Spring Onion]

I don't think replacing NATO/ISAF troops with anyother foreign force would help, even though it may comprise of neighbouring countries.

It will not be welcome either because of obvious ethnic & sectarian issues that plague the Afghan society. It's not practical either as you mentioned.

Perhaps a UN Mission might help.

Why should any country replace NATO/US invaders to clean the American shi.it in the first place??

Who will be willing to do that ??? all major powers and west has joined this wrong invasion and they now want to get out one or the way.

Russia isnt going to do that. Who is left then ?? Iran and India? or Islamic countries ? so will they be willing to clean up American mess in Afghanistan at the cost of own people??

 

[True_Pakistan_Zindabad]

Why should any country replace NATO/US invaders to clean the American shi.it in the first place??

Who will be willing to do that ??? all major powers and west has joined this wrong invasion and they now want to get out one or the way.

Russia isnt going to do that. Who is left then ?? Iran and India? or Islamic countries ? so will they be willing to clean up American mess in Afghanistan at the cost of own people??

Well I think we should all be willing to help the Afghan people and stabilize their country for their future and our future. Everyone knows that in the end Afghanistan and Pakistan will be like brothers and no one wants to see us strong with them in such a close alliance. If anything it should be US PAKISTANIS who should help the Afghans clean this mess. If no one else wants to it is because it does not concern their national security unlike our position. The Americans have left a mess but we don't have to keep bombing their villages. We should broker a further peace deal after the US leaves and offer the Afghan government our security forces as stop gap security. We know how it feels when US abandons you and soon Afghans will face this harsh fact.

 

[Spring Onion]

\
Personally I think it should be a regional force of SAARC, CAR countries including China Iran and Russia stabilising Afghanistan rather than NATO which are here from halfway around the world. But the problem is that these countries are not united and arevictimg of mutal suspicion and hostility.

SAARC means India and Pakistan. I dont think so they can be placed in the same pool.

Russia wont be willing to work for US interests, neither US will want Russian hold once again. Same is the case with China. If Iran jumps in solely its again destabilising.


The bottom line is: Leave Afghanistan alone and let its people decided for forming their government with all sections including Pukhtuns, Hazaras, Tajik, Uzbeks and other small ethnic group onboard and then they should decided what and how much role they want to give their neighbours viz a viz trade, economy, strategic etc etc

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Its a known fact tht the Taliban were ready to hand over OBL to a third party like KSA instead of dealing directly with USA.