Afghanistan: Informal Colony of India

[Khan_21]

I don't agree with that.

The corruption in Pakistan as is often lamented by Pakistanis is intact much less than in India by some measures -- Just the 2G (scam was it -- I could have the number wrong) was larger than the total government corruption in Pakistan for the same period (of course India is much larger than Pakistan so you have to normalize for that).

The courts system in Pakistan as broken as it is still more efficient than in India (save for celebrity cases like the Mumbai 2008 trail -- also compare this to the trial of Samjhuta express). The reason is not due process which strangely (if you have had to do business in Pakistan you know) has to be followed,(even in a country like Pakistan) -- the reason is that the laws are slightly different and as with smaller organizations the processes and thinking are by nature more agile (given all other things equal).

For example I've compared the speed/cost of/hiring people/setting up startups in India vs Pakistan -- Pakistan I can have an operation up and running in 4 weeks. In India just hiring people was a nightmare -- took me months at a time (plus hiring IIT folks was off the table -- they only wanted to work for Google, Facebook -- In Pakistan I can hire top talent as a startup). Further, in India, people would often accept a better offer at the last second -- how do I even plan for that. Getting a phone installed, Internet options, Industrial power connections are all much faster in the backwaters of Pakistan compared to Bangaluru or Hayderabad -- and the Pakistanis are very creative -- I've had triple redundancy in infrastructure in Pakistan.

India's principal advantage which Pakistan can do nothing about is India's relative size and some cultural advantages IMHO. India also has an elite culture of scholarship (perhaps owing this to the tradition of scholarship in the Hindhu Brahmin tradition). Pakistan does not have anything that equates -- thought Pakistanis offset it in other areas, like creativity and agility. Another huge disadvantage that Pakistan has is that it is a Muslim country -- bad bad Image problem. The Muslim civilization being at the center of the world has naturally (due to its geography) been with conflict with more other civilizations than any other civilization -- so there is an image offset -- couple that with the religiosity that has gripped Pakistan since 1980s and you have a problem doing business in Pakistan from an image perspective. No "white" client relishes visiting Lahore while the opposite is simply not true for India -- everyone wants their selfie taken in-front of the Taj Mahal.

Now -- India again due to I think better top leadership and its size has been more strategic. Pakistan leveraged its relationship to send a few stupid generals to staff college in the US while India was busy having partnerships between IITs and universities like MIT, etc. Pakistan does not think strategically enough and does not think big enough [to an extent India does not think big enough for its size].

Now if you compare this to China -- it is a dream doing business in China -- and the Chinese have worked very hard to be large and agile -- it is mind boggling how they have done it but I suspect they have been working very hard at it for 40 years. If China is Diesel locomotive - India is a bullock cart -- Pakistan sohrab cycle -- take your pick

Pakistan being a muslim country is a huge Problem. Even a country as secular and open as Turkey faces this problem these days. Safety wise you would attest to that going around in Islamabad or Lahore is much safer than most US cities.

Pakistan is better than India in alot of areas because from 47 - 2005 we were the richer/better country .

 

[Kabira]

I seen nothing but disappointment since the day I joined this forum; Pakistanis seems to be incapable of meaningful discussion. ''Afghanistan a colony of India'', this would be a laughable joke, if I didn't know people actually meant it. Frankly speaking, it is kinda ironic that the former colony of Britain claiming Afghanistan to be a colony, lol. The saddest part is that the former colony of Britain, doesn't know what the word ''colony'' means. Yeah... it wouldn't be that sad if Pakistan didn't have English as an official language...

Brother maybe next generation of Afghanis will accept the fact that Afghanistan is actually still occupied country and their leaders salaries paid directly from USA aid? In last two weeks Americans have bombed and killed around 25 Afghan "allies" but puppets in Kabul didn't had anything to say. Its basically modern version of colonisation where you're told what to do.

In case of USA its understandable but India doesn't even have that much of stake yet in Afghanistan, at least let them do something for you before becoming their pet.

 

[DSM0305]

Brother maybe next generation of Afghanis will accept the fact that Afghanistan is actually still occupied country and their leaders salaries paid directly from USA aid? In last two weeks Americans have bombed and killed around 25 Afghan "allies" but puppets in Kabul didn't had anything to say. Its basically modern version of colonisation where you're told what to do.

In case of USA its understandable but India doesn't even have that much of stake yet in Afghanistan, at least let them do something for you before becoming their pet.

Don't get insulted, but is your job devoted to spread ignorance?

What information I have gathered so far in this forum. The Pakistani people doesn't know what ''colony, fact, occupied, puppet, colonization, pet'' means. It must seriously left some deep scars when Britain colonized you people, and turned people from modern day Pakistan into ''pets'' in their ''slave'' army to fight the >independent< Afghan people. While >paid< your leaders before leaving, so you would fight your >brothers< in India.

Afghanistan is a free independent nation who will look for it interest wherever it fits them. If aid money is determines who is occupied, then Pakistan will be part of the occupation. If investing in a country determines as being a ''pet'', then Pakistan will be a pet of China. If following orders of another nation determines being a slave, then Afghanistan by no means even remotely slave of anyone While Pakistan helped USA bombing and fighting Taliban. You literally helped the enemy bomb one of your allies, because an order was issued by your masters in Washington oh, did I forget to mention the countless drone strikes, which not only killed Pakistani citizens, but also Pakistani soldiers

Pakistani people in this forum apparently have only one thing to offer, ignorance...

 

[Kabira]

Don't get insulted, but is your job devoted to spread ignorance?

What information I have gathered so far in this forum. The Pakistani people doesn't know what ''colony, fact, occupied, puppet, colonization, pet'' means. It must seriously left some deep scars when Britain colonized you people, and turned people from modern day Pakistan into ''pets'' in their ''slave'' army to fight the >independent< Afghan people. While >paid< your leaders before leaving, so you would fight your >brothers< in India.

Afghanistan is a free independent nation who will look for it interest wherever it fits them. If aid money is determines who is occupied, then Pakistan will be part of the occupation. If investing in a country determines as being a ''pet'', then Pakistan will be a pet of China. If following orders of another nation determines being a slave, then Afghanistan by no means even remotely slave of anyone While Pakistan helped USA bombing and fighting Taliban. You literally helped the enemy bomb one of your allies, because an order was issued by your masters in Washington oh, did I forget to mention the countless drone strikes, which not only killed Pakistani citizens, but also Pakistani soldiers

Pakistani people in this forum apparently have only one thing to offer, ignorance...

To much ignorance in one post, clearly your own upper side is empty. If we wanted we could have been with India. Pakistan was made to fail. India didn't even bother to transfer our share of money after British left.. In initial years Pakistan even had to pay salaries of officials from donations of few rich patriots.

Please wake up and smell the coffee like Afghans in Afghanistan oing for 40 years. From simple soldier to president Ghani salary comes from pockets of Americans. You can't compare this to some "aid" Pakistan receive.

If Afghanistan leaders were independent then they would at least say few words against Americans who have killed and bombed 25 of their "allies" in last two weeks. Look at the reaction drone attacks against terrorists used to get in Pakistan. And now Afghanistan is becoming pet of India. This puppet government will be remembered like pro soviet invasion Afghan puppets of 80's in history, make no mistake about this.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

The Pak-ISI drug trade in Punjab and sex trade in SE Asia is ... 'remarkable'.
#'Respect'

 

[DSM0305]

To much ignorance in one post, clearly your own upper side is empty. If we wanted we could have been with India. Pakistan was made to fail. India didn't even bother to transfer our share of money after British left.. In initial years Pakistan even had to pay salaries of officials from donations of few rich patriots.

Please wake up and smell the coffee like Afghans in Afghanistan oing for 40 years. From simple soldier to president Ghani salary comes from pockets of Americans. You can't compare this to some "aid" Pakistan receive.

If Afghanistan leaders were independent then they would at least say few words against Americans who have killed and bombed 25 of their "allies" in last two weeks. Look at the reaction drone attacks against terrorists used to get in Pakistan. And now Afghanistan is becoming pet of India. This puppet government will be remembered like pro soviet invasion Afghan puppets of 80's in history, make no mistake about this.

My upper side, are you referring to my shoulder hmm perhaps my hair? They're just fine, no need to worry. You in the other hand my dear friend, do seem to have only one brain cell left, and it seems like it is fighting for dominance

If you wanted, you still wouldn't be able to do anything about it. Do you know why because your masters already made the path. You guys just had to follow.
Ohh the guy who are talking about independence is crying about why their masters didn't give them their share of cookies.
A few patriots who did enough boot licking to their masters, so they got a pat on their head... how cute.

It doesn't matter whether you get one dollar or a trillion. You're getting hands outs just like us. Who receive how much is irrelevant, it is the principle that matters. You guys receive the money, we receive the money, end of story. We are ind the exactly same boat.

We are not some screaming monkeys, who are all words and no action. Who knows what kind of trouble they got them into after that >accident< and they probably going to be 10 times more careful now. You guys in the other hand got bombed and killed left and right. You guys screamed, protested, yet to put salt on the wound they did it again. You keep protesting and they still keep doing it, again, again and again. This is the definition of slavery. They do whatever they want and whenever they want, with Pakistan. We Afghans in the other hand do exactly what we want and whenever we want. Even after all these billion spend by the US, we are still completely independent. You guys in the other hand, with a little hand out and you do whatever they ask you to.

There is a saying. When the US commands Pakistan to jump, Pakistan replies ''when and how high''.

Afghanistan's military budget is almost twice the amount of Pakistan. It just matter of time before Afghanistan's military surpasses that of Pakistan. Pakistan can either wash their mouth and stop supporting terrorists inside Afghanistan or face dire consequences in the future.

 

[Kabira]

My upper side, are you referring to my shoulder hmm perhaps my hair? They're just fine, no need to worry. You in the other hand my dear friend, do seem to have only one brain cell left, and it seems like it is fighting for dominance

If you wanted, you still wouldn't be able to do anything about it. Do you know why because your masters already made the path. You guys just had to follow.
Ohh the guy who are talking about independence is crying about why their masters didn't give them their share of cookies.
A few patriots who did enough boot licking to their masters, so they got a pat on their head... how cute.

It doesn't matter whether you get one dollar or a trillion. You're getting hands outs just like us. Who receive how much is irrelevant, it is the principle that matters. You guys receive the money, we receive the money, end of story. We are ind the exactly same boat.

We are not some screaming monkeys, who are all words and no action. Who knows what kind of trouble they got them into after that >accident< and they probably going to be 10 times more careful now. You guys in the other hand got bombed and killed left and right. You guys screamed, protested, yet to put salt on the wound they did it again. You keep protesting and they still keep doing it, again, again and again. This is the definition of slavery. They do whatever they want and whenever they want, with Pakistan. We Afghans in the other hand do exactly what we want and whenever we want. Even after all these billion spend by the US, we are still completely independent. You guys in the other hand, with a little hand out and you do whatever they ask you to.

There is a saying. When the US commands Pakistan to jump, Pakistan replies ''when and how high''.

Afghanistan's military budget is almost twice the amount of Pakistan. It just matter of time before Afghanistan's military surpasses that of Pakistan. Pakistan can either wash their mouth and stop supporting terrorists inside Afghanistan or face dire consequences in the future.

Ofcourse it matter if you get 1 dollar or trilllion, think logically for once. All of Afghanistan budget comes from outside and is the reason Kerry pact was made possible to form so called unity government. USA spent over $500 billlion in Afghanistan. The military budget you are bragging about is again USA funded, you can't do anything with it apart from what Americans tells you. lol at becoming on par with Pakistan, stop deludding yourself.

While Pakistan received what $10 billion for providing transit route which isn't exactly aid. Other option was to refuse them and get bombed over Afghanistan, no thanks. Just by saying you're independent doesn't mean you actually are, again you are just deludding your self. Don't compare independent Pakistan with Afghanistan because its insulting and make you look like a fool. In near future this Unity government will be remembered just like pro Soviet invasion puppets of Kabul, back then Afghanistan was also "independent". When pro soviet Afghan government used to tell Soviets which village to bomb, the reason so many of you left for Pakistan. Now same independent leaders sit back and watch their country men being humiliated by foreigners in their own land.

BTW Pakistan budget is near $9 billion and since its our money we do what ever we want with it. Afghanistan budget is half of it but more importantly it barely cover operartions. No one will fund you to buy latest toys if thats what you dream about.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/afghanistan/budget.htm

 

[DSM0305]

Ofcourse it matter if you get 1 dollar or trilllion, think logically for once. All of Afghanistan budget comes from outside and is the reason Kerry pact was made possible to form so called unity government. USA spent over $500 billlion in Afghanistan. The military budget you are bragging about is again USA funded, you can't do anything with it apart from what Americans tells you. lol at becoming on par with Pakistan, stop deludding yourself.

While Pakistan received what $10 billion for providing transit route which isn't exactly aid. Other option was to refuse them and get bombed over Afghanistan, no thanks. Just by saying you're independent doesn't mean you actually are, again you are just deludding your self. Don't compare independent Pakistan with Afghanistan because its insulting and make you look like a fool. In near future this Unity government will be remembered just like pro Soviet invasion puppets of Kabul, back then Afghanistan was also "independent". When pro soviet Afghan government used to tell Soviets which village to bomb, the reason so many of you left for Pakistan. Now same independent leaders sit back and watch their country men being humiliated by foreigners in their own land.

BTW Pakistan budget is near $9 billion and since its our money we do what ever we want with it. Afghanistan budget is half of it but more importantly it barely cover operartions. No one will fund you to buy latest toys if thats what you dream about.

The problem with Pakistanis is that beyond what they're told, they know nothing. You guys are like a parrots repeating each other. Your brain cant think independently and you need someone to tell you what to say.

A beggar is a beggar regardless of the amount he begs for, whether it is 1 dollar or 10 dollars. So Pakistanis for your own sake stop deluding yourself. You're in no different boat than Afghanistan. The transit route has nothing to do with the aid money you receive.

I provided examples of how the US has made you slaves, and how the US is doing whatever it want with Pakistan. Whether it is droning your citizens or commanding you to attack your allies. Pakistan is the only nation who abandon his allies and provided help to its enemies to get rid of their own allies... how can anyone trust you. People of nowadays Pakistan region have backstabbed Afghanistan several times. You guys allied yourself with British empire, the US, Sikhs, Hindus etc. against Afghanistan. Now you're supporting terrorists... Taliban were archenemies with Iran, yet Iran did not provide any of it bases to be used against them. Israel the so called enemy of Islam did not provide the US with bases. Pakistan the so called allies of Taliban, provided transit route and it own bases for operations... Pakistan should be ashamed of it existence.

Now that I have provided several points in which way the US is doing whatever it want with Pakistan and commanding them like slaves. Now can you provide anything regarding Afghanistan doing the US bidding, nope you cant. Do you know why, because you guys have deluded yourself into thinking that Afghanistan is the US puppet, but the reality is quite different. The one who is doing the US bidding is the Pakistani government, but deluding the masses in Pakistan into thinking it is Afghanistan who is a puppet, so you can justify your support for terrorists.

First of all, your source is outdated and unreliable. Literally all sources indicates that the Afghan military have around 11,5 billion military budget. While Pakistan's is around 7 billion. Like it or not, when the civil war in Afghanistan is over, you will see Afghan army marching in Islamabad with an Afghan flag raised for everyone to see

 

[pakistani342]

The problem with Pakistanis is that beyond what they're told, they know nothing. You guys are like a parrots repeating each other. Your brain cant think independently and you need someone to tell you what to say.

A beggar is a beggar regardless of the amount he begs for, whether it is 1 dollar or 10 dollars. So Pakistanis for your own sake stop deluding yourself. You're in no different boat than Afghanistan. The transit route has nothing to do with the aid money you receive.

I think you are new here -- but I suspect many posters here on this forum study Afghanistan in rather detail and draw them into a point by point discussion and I suspect you'll be rather surprised.

Quite to the contrary we (and I can speak for several of us) Afghans seem to make a hasty retreat when countered with facts and figures.

Perhaps you will be different and educate the rest of us -- many of us would welcome that -- however that has not been the experience on this form (and mine outside this form)

For example let us take the example of Afghan Universities -- might I propose we descent AUAF -- that is one of the best Afghan Universities -- the rest must be worse -- let's do that with Afghan medical colleges, engineering school. Would love to work on that with you -- (though I'm afraid to say I think you like the rest will beat a hasty retreat)

I provided examples of how the US has made you slaves, and how the US is doing whatever it want with Pakistan. Whether it is droning your citizens or commanding you to attack your allies. Pakistan is the only nation who abandon his allies and provided help to its enemies to get rid of their own allies... how can anyone trust you. People of nowadays Pakistan region have backstabbed Afghanistan several times. You guys allied yourself with British empire, the US, Sikhs, Hindus etc. against Afghanistan. Now you're supporting terrorists... Taliban were archenemies with Iran, yet Iran did not provide any of it bases to be used against them. Israel the so called enemy of Islam did not provide the US with bases. Pakistan the so called allies of Taliban, provided transit route and it own bases for operations... Pakistan should be ashamed of it existence.

There is a lot of subjective stuff there -- without references -- are you in college yet?

I will ignore the rest ... but let's open a point by point discussion -- several Afghans have been challenged but for someone now one responds -- the best reason I've gotten from @A-Team (and I think that is what @sher-Malanga) was saying -- that they don't have enough time.

For example when I heard that the current Afghan Ambassador to the US (Mohib) was some Devine figure -- some of us friends went and pulled his PhD Thesis from the University and took a quick look at it -- we could do that again if you wish ;-)

 

[MilSpec]

the author has nothing to do with ISI

You agree with the OP?

 

[Spring Onion]

You agree with the OP?

NO. Not 1%. The Afghan Karzais' GOVERNMENT may need Indians for some backing but saying that Afghanistan is a colony of India is far from smallest reality.

 

[DSM0305]

I think you are new here -- but I suspect many posters here on this forum study Afghanistan in rather detail and draw them into a point by point discussion and I suspect you'll be rather surprised.

No, many posters here repeat like parrots what they heard of their government. India, RAW, NDS, TTP, colony, Hindu, Namak haram, I guess you get my drift by now, don't you.
None of you have been to Afghanistan and your opinions, is not worth 2 cents, unless of course you guys have a bachelor in Afghan studies, which I highly doubt...

Quite to the contrary we (and I can speak for several of us) Afghans seem to make a hasty retreat when countered with facts and figures.

There is no facts or figures in this forum. Only assumption and conspiracy theories made by Pakistanis. They don't retreat, but either get annoyed by the constant insults thrown against Afghans without moderators doing a jackshit about it, or get banned because Pakistanis cant handle the truth.

Perhaps you will be different and educate the rest of us -- many of us would welcome that -- however that has not been the experience on this form (and mine outside this form)

oh don't give me that. One need not to look any further than basically any damn thread in this forum to see the mentality of Pakistanis. This forum isn't for education, it is for propaganda and ignorance regarding other countries.

For example let us take the example of Afghan Universities -- might I propose we descent AUAF -- that is one of the best Afghan Universities -- the rest must be worse -- let's do that with Afghan medical colleges, engineering school. Would love to work on that with you -- (though I'm afraid to say I think you like the rest will beat a hasty retreat)

ohh so now all of sudden you know which Afghan universities are the best and which aren't. I guess you have been to Afghanistan and thoroughly investigated the matter.

There is a lot of subjective stuff there -- without references -- are you in college yet?

common knowledge requires no reference. One does not need a complex explanation to why 2 + 2 gives 4.

I will ignore the rest ... but let's open a point by point discussion -- several Afghans have been challenged but for someone now one responds -- the best reason I've gotten from @A-Team (and I think that is what @sher-Malanga) was saying -- that they don't have enough time.

No one have time to waste in a random forum and discussing with someone whose best knowledge comes from a Pakistani news channel.

For example when I heard that the current Afghan Ambassador to the US (Mohib) was some Devine figure -- some of us friends went and pulled his PhD Thesis from the University and took a quick look at it -- we could do that again if you wish ;-)

Go ahead

 

[SarthakGanguly]

The funniest insult showered by some Pakistanis to Afghans was this 'Hindu'

 

[Kabira]

The problem with Pakistanis is that beyond what they're told, they know nothing. You guys are like a parrots repeating each other. Your brain cant think independently and you need someone to tell you what to say.

A beggar is a beggar regardless of the amount he begs for, whether it is 1 dollar or 10 dollars. So Pakistanis for your own sake stop deluding yourself. You're in no different boat than Afghanistan. The transit route has nothing to do with the aid money you receive.

I provided examples of how the US has made you slaves, and how the US is doing whatever it want with Pakistan. Whether it is droning your citizens or commanding you to attack your allies. Pakistan is the only nation who abandon his allies and provided help to its enemies to get rid of their own allies... how can anyone trust you. People of nowadays Pakistan region have backstabbed Afghanistan several times. You guys allied yourself with British empire, the US, Sikhs, Hindus etc. against Afghanistan. Now you're supporting terrorists... Taliban were archenemies with Iran, yet Iran did not provide any of it bases to be used against them. Israel the so called enemy of Islam did not provide the US with bases. Pakistan the so called allies of Taliban, provided transit route and it own bases for operations... Pakistan should be ashamed of it existence.

Now that I have provided several points in which way the US is doing whatever it want with Pakistan and commanding them like slaves. Now can you provide anything regarding Afghanistan doing the US bidding, nope you cant. Do you know why, because you guys have deluded yourself into thinking that Afghanistan is the US puppet, but the reality is quite different. The one who is doing the US bidding is the Pakistani government, but deluding the masses in Pakistan into thinking it is Afghanistan who is a puppet, so you can justify your support for terrorists.

First of all, your source is outdated and unreliable. Literally all sources indicates that the Afghan military have around 11,5 billion military budget. While Pakistan's is around 7 billion. Like it or not, when the civil war in Afghanistan is over, you will see Afghan army marching in Islamabad with an Afghan flag raised for everyone to see

As expected you upper area is empty, every country receive some "aid". You can't compare that to 100% of Afghan budget being foreign funded, in case of Pakistan its less then 0.1%. We are doing what USA tells us? Then why are they pissed at us? If we behaved like their pet dogs then USA and India would be happy with us just like they are with Afghanistan

Now you are going centuries back to blame us, typical dimwitted afghani LMAO So blame us for British, US, Sikhs, Hindus etc But then quickly forget that in last post you was happy at the fact that America/British invaded and imposed their will on Afghanistan. And Afghanistan right now is pet dog of Hindustan. This point only make you look like a fool.

Afghan budget was 11.5 back in 2011, now its $5 billion.

"Afghanistan already receives about $5 billion a year, mostly from the United States, to cover defense costs."

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/10/03/world/asia/ap-as-afghanistan-seeking-aid.html

This news just came out so don't blame source to be outdated, right now Ghani saab is busy begging world to pledge more funds to cover military operations and his own salary

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Really, go indepth to why Afghans hate Pakistan. Then you will know why they're thinking perfectly rationally, nothing to do with India, colony BS.