Afghanistan fire 25 mortar shells in Pakistan: Officials.

[Armstrong]

Then these tribal lashkars would not fight on behalf of Pak army across the border... They are raised in case of any threat against their qaum , (word qaum is used for tribe in pashto). If they think that a particular tribe or group on the other side of the durand is entirely responsible for disturbance in their areas, then they might launch lashkars against them..the bajaur incident, which you frequently mentions, in which bajauris repelled afghan lashkars, was purely a defensive tribal response against uninvited infiltaration. It is just your wishful thinking that tribal militias would operate against afghan people...infact mostly same tribes are living across durand.

Some pashtun tribes like marwats, mulagoris, buneris, dirojans effectively eliminated threat of talibans through their qaumi lashkars, but it should be noted the members of lashkars were volunteers with no funds from any security agency.

No one is asking them to fight against their own tribe...heck their immediate tribesmen across the border are de-facto Pakistanis !

I'm sure the Tribal Lashkars with the Pakistan Army & the Pakistan Airforce would be willing to help out against this mortar fire from the ANA or the TTP operating near their lands. That doesn't imply that they'd be foot soldiers traversing the length & breadth of Afghanistan killing all & sundry.

P.S the Bajaur incident wasn't just a Tribal Lashkar operating against a neighboring Afghan Tribe's Lashkar but against the Afghan Army itself hence why they called in the PAF & the Pakistan Army.

 

[haviZsultan]

Then these tribal lashkars would not fight on behalf of Pak army across the border... They are raised in case of any threat against their qaum , (word qaum is used for tribe in pashto). If they think that a particular tribe or group on the other side of the durand is entirely responsible for disturbance in their areas, then they might launch lashkars against them..the bajaur incident, which you frequently mentions, in which bajauris repelled afghan lashkars, was purely a defensive tribal response against uninvited infiltaration. It is just your wishful thinking that tribal militias would operate against afghan people...infact mostly same tribes are living across durand.

Some pashtun tribes like marwats, mulagoris, buneris, dirojans effectively eliminated threat of talibans through their qaumi lashkars, but it should be noted the members of lashkars were volunteers with no funds from any security agency.

There have been a dozen + cases. For example in the attacks on Lower Dir my contact who is a terrorism expert claims that a Lashkar was formed even there. So I don't see how you are claiming the Lashkars won't fight for Pakistan. It is time to institutionalize the lashkars as a very solid part of the defence of each community, not view them as a threat.

You are only wishing that they will not fight Afghanistan. Also you are giving a very poor impression of Pakistani Pashtuns who have ghairat and will never bow heads to Afghanistan. I will show you something to prove you wrong with analysis.

Tribal lashkars provide a solution

The re-emergence of Fazlullah, Shah said, is not the only concern that has attracted the army’s attention.

“Intelligence reports suggest that similar attacks are expected from the TTP’s Faqir Mohammed in Bajaur Agency and Wali-ur-Rehman in South Waziristan Agency,” Shah said.

Against that backdrop, “An understanding has been reached between the Pakistani army and ISAF that the latter will take action to stop incursions into Pakistan from across Afghanistan, while the former would act against the Haqqani network,” Shah said.

An Amn Lashkar was prepared by Momands in Momand too and leader threatened to hit Afghanistan hard. I read article somewhere long ago. Also here Fazlullah's upper dir attack is what is being discussed which resulted in kidnapping of soldiers.

And peace lashkars have been working to repel any attacks by Fazlullah or others.

For example, the Aman Lashkar peace force and security forces killed six Taliban intruders June 15 after they attacked a Pakistani security check-post at Din Darra in the Brawal area, Upper Dir, according to media reports.

If what you say is true why would it matter to the lashkars if soldiers were killed and security check-post attacked? They are here to defend themselves. And if what you say army is an intruder too so why they don't attack them? Only Taliban do. This is false logic and I do not know why you keep promoting this annoying stuff as if you are a spokesman for us all.

Mamund Qaumi Lashkar members and security forces jointly repulsed a July 8 attack by militants from Afghanistan in the Kagga area, Bajaur Agency, Pakistani media reported. Two attackers were killed and eight were injured, according to news reports.

So again, every tribe has done this. They are working in conjunction with forces. You said somethings about Lashkars I wanted to address in last posts as well. Its believe they should be a permanent force and when strength is low and some miscreant needs to be captured volunteers called in. In times of war it becomes permanent actually. Sultanwas (village north of Daggar) Jirga from buner still there from 2008 even though Buner is clear. I researched all these things so you can't teach us Luffy.

Similar tribal forces have been formed in Upper Dir’s strategically important areas, including Nusrat Darra, Din Darra, Gujaro Killay, Sanai Darra, and Shanger Darra.

Again. Sometimes FC posts are unmanned and only lashkars manning them. This is from my friend in Timergera who has provided valuable information in the past and is my primary source on matters of WOT and infiltration from Afghanistan.

“Each of the force consists of volunteers from villages that are situated in these areas,” Mehsud said.

While the army is expected to tighten the border with Afghanistan in the wake of the June 24 ambush, the tribal forces also can provide an answer to the “hit-and-run” attacks by the Taliban from across Afghanistan, Mehsud said.

Exactly. So the lashkars and the army are two beads of the same pearl as are the Pashtuns and Pakistan. It would be wise to remember that for together we strive and succeed.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

No one is asking them to fight against their own tribe...heck their immediate tribesmen across the border are de-facto Pakistanis !

I'm sure the Tribal Lashkars with the Pakistan Army & the Pakistan Airforce would be willing to help out against this mortar fire from the ANA or the TTP operating near their lands. That doesn't imply that they'd be foot soldiers traversing the length & breadth of Afghanistan killing all & sundry.

P.S the Bajaur incident wasn't just a Tribal Lashkar operating against a neighboring Afghan Tribe's Lashkar but against the Afghan Army itself hence why they called in the PAF & the Pakistan Army.

Why would pak army need ill-equiped , less trained tribal lashkars against ANA? or even against TTP. Pak army should infilterate into Afghanistan by itself, attack ANA or any hiding taliban it want to. Afghans did use similar tactic that you are suggesting, they send tribal lashkars not their official army to bajaur, so that it should'nt be attack of afghanistan on pakistan, they stated that tribals are helping their bros across border out of pashtun brotherhood for pashtunistan cause...afghan tribals were perhaps either payed or they were told that their bros need help. The whole plan backfired..
Bajauris neither called for Pak army help or PAF's bombardment, pak army and PAF was ready for such infilteration and acted on its own.
Tell me armstrong how exactly PAF is going to find and strike hiding talibans among afghan population? We are not even sure whether TTP is hiding in population or in mountains. We have already seen barbaric bombardment of PAF in tribal areas, you shouldnt suggest it for afghans unless you are among those who even think that afghanistan should be nuked.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Havi sultan you failed to grasp my point, tribal lashkars only act (whether with pak army support, or alone) in their local qaumi(tribal) interests. They wont act as mercenaries and kill afghan population.

 

[Armstrong]

Why would pak army need ill-equiped , less trained tribal lashkars against ANA? or even against TTP. Pak army should infilterate into Afghanistan by itself, attack ANA or any hiding taliban it want to. Afghans did use similar tactic that you are suggesting, they send tribal lashkars not their official army to bajaur, so that it should'nt be attack of afghanistan on pakistan, they stated that tribals are helping their bros across border out of pashtun brotherhood for pashtunistan cause...afghan tribals were perhaps either payed or they were told that their bros need help. The whole plan backfired..
Bajauris neither called for Pak army help or PAF's bombardment, pak army and PAF was ready for such infilteration and acted on its own.
Tell me armstrong how exactly PAF is going to find and strike hiding talibans among afghan population? We are not even sure whether TTP is hiding in population or in mountains. We have already seen barbaric bombardment of PAF in tribal areas, you shouldnt suggest it for afghans unless you are among those who even think that afghanistan should be nuked.

You've already answer your own question !

Why would the Pakistan Army & the PAF need the Tribal Lashkars ? Because they are locals & because collateral damage means something to us. Because we don't know what could be behind that ridge & our trackers aren't accustomed to the surroundings & a plethora of other reasons. Beside someone has to facilitate the intrusion & who better to do that then the Tribals themselves who are living on both sides of the border & know the ins & outs of the Durrand Line like the back of their palm ?

I say again - No one is saying that they should walk into Afghanistan & start shooting !

And the Bajauris indeed called in the Pakistan Army & the Pakistan Air force when it became apparent to them that the Afghan Militias are backed by the Afghan Army & it would be very difficult to stop them without some back up of our own.

And where exactly did the PAF conduct barbaric bombardment of the Tribal Areas ?

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

@Armstrong
Pakistan actively employs PAF jets, gunship helicopters, canons in tribal areas......the whole world knows about it, only you for some reason is unaware of it.

 

[Armstrong]

@Armstrong
Pakistan actively employs PAF jets, gunship helicopters, canons in tribal areas......the whole world knows about it, only you for some reason is unaware of it.

I know that they do that but I was referring to your 'barbaric bombardment' comment ! As far as I know the PAF has taken an immense amount of care to reduce collateral damage to a bare minimum unlike their NATO & ISAF counterparts on the other side !

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

I know that they do that but I was referring to your 'barbaric bombardment' comment ! As far as I know the PAF has taken an immense amount of care to reduce collateral damage to a bare minimum unlike their NATO & ISAF counterparts on the other side !

NATO, American attacks are actually more precise than PAF, they some times make blunders due to false intelligence.
PAF or army bombardments are messy, indescriminate, when you bombard a village with taliban presence, you also kill innocent men, women and childern....tribals hate pak army entirely for this reason, family members of victims then join taliban to seek revenge against pak army.

 

[darkinsky]

He thinks if Pakistan drop one Nuke, nothing will happen. Entire world will get against Pakistan, decades long sanctions and Pakistan will be forced to give up all their nukes.

forced to give up nukes, dude, there is not a better force than nuke, you talk of forcing out nukes as if they are toys, lol

if pakistan is forced for anything, we will be forced to nuke india to hell three times, it makes a deep hole enough to fill in indian ocean lol, enough to teach any body forcing us to do anything

all we will have is a radioactive hell hole filled with ocean water in our west and east

i hope another country called iran irritated with afghani refugees will help us making hell hole in the west

 

[karan.1970]

forced to give up nukes, dude, there is not a better force than nuke, you talk of forcing out nukes as if they are toys, lol

if pakistan is forced for anything, we will be forced to nuke india to hell three times, it makes a deep hole enough to fill in indian ocean lol, enough to teach any body forcing us to do anything

all we will have is a radioactive hell hole filled with ocean water in our west and east

You do not have enough nukes to take out whole of India.. Taking out Pakistan due to its pidly size, is totally within reach with 100 or so nukes...

 

[INDIC]

NATO, American attacks are actually more precise than PAF, they some times make blunders due to false intelligence.
PAF or army bombardments are messy, indescriminate, when you bombard a village with taliban presence, you also kill innocent men, women and childern....tribals hate pak army entirely for this reason, family members of victims then join taliban to seek revenge against pak army.

I saw the VICE documentary "Taliban in Pakistan" which was showing that during 2010 floods government response was pathetic while Taliban exploited the situation and came forward to help people more than the government.

 

[darkinsky]

You do not have enough nukes to take out whole of India.. Taking out Pakistan due to its pidly size, is totally within reach with 100 or so nukes...

you phuud phuud missile is gonna back fire and make hell hole in your own holy dung buddy HAHAHA!!

 

[karan.1970]

you phuud phuud missile is gonna back fire and make hell hole in your own holy cow buddy HAHAHA!!

Whatever floats your boat

 

[Armstrong]

NATO, American attacks are actually more precise than PAF, they some times make blunders due to false intelligence.
PAF or army bombardments are messy, indescriminate, when you bombard a village with taliban presence, you also kill innocent men, women and childern....tribals hate pak army entirely for this reason, family members of victims then join taliban to seek revenge against pak army.

Really how many Tribes have done that ? And why did they feel the need to form Tribal Lashkars to begin with going well into the thousands ?

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Really how many Tribes have done that ? And why did they feel the need to form Tribal Lashkars to begin with going well into the thousands ?

Many tribes have done what? What exactly are you talking about?