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Afghanistan: A Pawn In The Pakistan India Regional Tug Of War

"1500 scholorships for afghan students was announced by LUMS alone last year."

You see you are playing with words now, you have claimed in your post above that 1500 scholarships was offered by LUMS last year, where is this number?

Just holding you to your words, it easy to make grand gestures but here you are, you just lied unless you can back it up.


You see you claimed that Haqqani met Reagan, where is that ? :) see got you.

3000 scholorships were offered. That's better and bigger than 1500 number that i quoted. Dont you think $55000 per afghan student that we spend would have been better of spending on any african student?
 
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3000 scholorships were offered. That's better and bigger than 1500 number that i quoted. Dont you think $55000 per afghan student that we spend would have been better of spending on any african student?

lets get to that 3000 figures later, but are you now admitting that you quoted this 1500 scholarships from LUMS only incorrectly? Can we confirm this first.

You see playing with number is quite easy, the same number that comes quite often of 15-16 Indian consulates but backing them up is difficult, unless your audience is idiots. ;)

Investing on African students is another matter but of course your prerogative
 
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lets get to that 3000 figures later, but are you now admitting that you quoted this 1500 scholarships from LUMS only incorrectly? Can we confirm this first.

You see playing with number is quite easy, the same number that comes quite often of 15-16 Indian consulates but backing them up is difficult, unless your audience is idiots. ;)

Investing on African students is another matter but of course your prerogative

:disagree:

Does the 1500 even matter when there are more than 3000 currently enrolled on scholorships? I might have confused the LUMS scholorship numbers with per year scholorships.

$55000 per afghan student is alot of money. We have alot of african students studying in Pakistan that money should have been spend on them , atleast they are grateful for what we are doing. Your initial remark was not spending on money. Name me one muslim majority country which has as many universities in the rankings?:).

Countries by scientific output

http://www.scimagojr.com/countryrank.php?year=2015

Pakistan is ranked a modest 43rd above countries like Indonesia and Nigeria. We are doing more and will be in top 20 soon. Do some research about Pakistan apart from its jarnails.
 
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Shows how ignorant you are of the greater scheme of things.

Do you know Dara? The biggest drugs and gun market in the world, run by who? Pakistanis of course. You guys have neglected Fata for decades, used its people as foot soldiers for Punjab and radicalized your people, of course it will have consequences. Instead of investing in education, you have invested in madrassas such as the Haqqania, a world renwoed training center for Talis etc.

In case you are looking for sources, please read the following as I am sure you will have issues with Hussain Haqqani, Christian Fair and Carlotta Gall

Crossed Swords: By Shuja Nawaz

Sometimes its best to look in the mirror, blaming all your ills on Afghans and for that matter Afghans blaming Pakistanis for all their ills helps no one.

Rumors Persist That The CIA Helps Export Opium From Afghanistan
By Kit O'Connell | September 19, 2015
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KABUL — Despite billions spent to eradicate opium crops in Afghanistan, the crop is more popular than ever there, leading many to wonder whether some U.S. forces may actually be encouraging its growth and the heroin it later becomes.

In July, the Centers for Disease Control warned ofrecord-breaking numbers of heroin deaths in the United States. “Heroin use more than doubled among young adults ages 18–25 in the past decade,” the CDC reported.

In the same month, it was reported that opium production is stronger than ever in Afghanistan, which now produces 90 percent of the world’s supply of the plant that’s refined to create heroin. This rise in production would have been impossible prior to the U.S.-led invasion, and it comes despite some $8.4 billion spent in counternarcotics efforts by the U.S., specifically designated to wipe out opium production in Afghanistan.

In fact, as Global Post reported in October, under the watchful eye of the U.S., opium use expanded to new parts of Afghanistan and growers now make use of modern, advanced agricultural technologies.

With photos circulating in 2010 that show U.S. soldiers patrolling opium fields, questions remain about what America’s real involvement may be in the opium trade. As Abby Martin noted in a 2014 investigation for Media Roots, while the Taliban had all but eradicated opium, it began to thrive just months after American forces replaced the Taliban-led government in 2001.

Martin noted that the CIA has long been tied to the global drug trade, where it’s accused of putting more effort into controlling rather than eradicating illicit substances. She added,

“Circumstantial evidence aside, there is no conclusive proof that the CIA is physically running opium out of Afghanistan. However, it’s hard to believe that a region under full US military occupation – with guard posts and surveillance drones monitoring the mountains of Tora Bora – aren’t able to track supply routes of opium exported from the country’s various poppy farms (you know, the ones the US military are guarding).”

According to a January report from Mother Jones, the DEA agent formerly in charge of the agency’s efforts in Afghanistan reported repeated conflict between DEA eradication efforts and CIA agents:

“[Edward] Follis says the DEA and CIA often bumped heads in Afghanistan. … While hinting that the CIA sometimes turned a blind eye to the Afghan drug trade, Follis won’t get into specifics. In his book, [‘The Dark Art: My Undercover Life in Global Narco-Terrorism,’] he writes, ‘Almost everywhere in the world I worked, I had static with the CIA. We’re often working the same terrain, but with different legal and moral parameters … They exist completely in the shadows.’”

Among the groups profiting off the Afghan opium trade — and the failed efforts to eradicate it — is the mercenary group Academi, better known by its former name, Blackwater. In April, RT reported that Academi earned $569 million from counternarcotics contracts in Afghanistan.

“[T]he notorious company has been the biggest beneficiary of counternarcotics expenditure in the war-torn country,

Your Answer to your Question

Your country is terrorists HQ when Soviet were defeated you guys started killing each other
 
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:disagree:

Does the 1500 even matter when there are more than 3000 currently enrolled on scholorships? I might have confused the LUMS scholorship numbers with per year scholorships.

$55000 per afghan student is alot of money. We have alot of african students studying in Pakistan that money should have been spend on them , atleast they are grateful for what we are doing. Your initial remark was not spending on money. Name me one muslim majority country which has as many universities in the rankings?:).

Countries by scientific output

http://www.scimagojr.com/countryrank.php?year=2015

Pakistan is ranked a modest 43rd above countries like Indonesia and Nigeria. We are doing more and will be in top 20 soon. Do some research about Pakistan apart from its jarnails.

Thank you for accepting that you were erred. As you can see there is a lot that one can err including the number of 15-16 consulates.

Rumors Persist That The CIA Helps Export Opium From Afghanistan
By Kit O'Connell | September 19, 2015
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Thank you for quoting a website prolly hosted in Badabira Peshware :D next time please bring some from afghanonion site. Well done.

Besides I have no idea what your on about? grateful in you can stop tagging me unless you have authentic sources with numbers and not some blab
 
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Thank you for accepting that you were erred. As you can see there is a lot that one can err including the number of 15-16 consulates.

Yes and still 3000 of your students study here on our cost. Many of them will go back and lead your country in future.

Your original post was about education. I countered it with rankings and scientific output to which you cleverly dodged:D.
 
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Yes and still 3000 of your students study here on our cost. Many of them will go back and lead your country in future.

Your original post was about education. I countered it with rankings and scientific output to which you cleverly dodged:D.
indeed its true many afghan students are studying in Pakistani universities
nearly 200 were admitted in comsats 5 months back

$55000 per afghan student is alot of money. We have alot of african students studying in Pakistan that money should have been spend on them , atleast they are grateful for what we are doing
why not on people belonging to Baluchistan and FATA after all they are our own
 
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indeed its true many afghan students are studying in Pakistani universities
nearly 200 were admitted in comsats 5 months back


why not on people belonging to Baluchistan and FATA after all they are our own

We seem to give alot of scholorships . We even have scholarships for Srilankan students . I agree our own people should be our priority . FATA is clear of any insurgency now and is on its way to becoming a part of KPK . That would serve it well .
 
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It is the sellout Afghan govt consisting of Northern Alliance goons who have destroyed the enslaved Afghanistan..Afghanistan is under occupation from foreign western forces...and it has become a hub of all international terror organistions under the eyes of Afghan govt.

Anyway:

Pakistan’s interests in Afghanistan:

1. Limit and lessen India’s sphere of influence in Kabul.

2. Keep India from establishing a closer relationship with Afghanistan, which could in the long run encircle Pakistan and weaken the Pakistani central government in Islamabad.

3. Promote and finance the Haqqani network and Taliban insurgents in Afghanistan to conduct attacks on Indian interests in Kabul. For instance, the Indian embassy in Kabul was attacked twice in 2008 and 2009 and the ISI was rumored to be behind the attacks.

4. Extend Pakistan and Islam influence towards Central Asian republics.

5. Establish economic relations with the oil-rich states of Central Asia by financing a government in Kabul that favors Pakistani interests.

6. Contain the neighboring states from projecting their sphere of influence into Afghanistan.

7. Make sure Pakistan plays an important role in the Afghan peace process, particularly in any post-2014 negotiations with the Taliban. For instance, Pakistan supported the idea of creating a Taliban office in Qatar, Doha in-order to maintain the presence of Taliban in Afghan politics after the NATO withdrawal.

India’s interests in Afghanistan:

1. Keep Afghanistan from being used as a base for Pakistan to train and coordinate terror attacks against Indian cities.

2. Weaken and limit Pakistani and Taliban/Pashtun influence over Afghan politics.

3. Establish a network to access oil-rich regions of Central Asia via Afghanistan for pipeline projects and assure energy security.

4. India is seeking great power status, thus the Indian government should foster its sphere of influence across South Asia to promote regional stability.

5. Maintain a certain level of political influence in Afghan politics.

6. Deliver financial aid in order to maintain some sort of economic influence over the Afghan economy.
Just based on your views of respective interests of India and Pakistan.


Pakistan’s interests in Afghanistan:

1. Limit and lessen India’s sphere of influence in Kabul. Sounds strategically sound

2. Keep India from establishing a closer relationship with Afghanistan, which could in the long run encircle Pakistan and weaken the Pakistani central government in Islamabad. Sounds negative as it violates afghan sovriegnity

3. Promote and finance the Haqqani network and Taliban insurgents in Afghanistan to conduct attacks on Indian interests in Kabul. For instance, the Indian embassy in Kabul was attacked twice in 2008 and 2009 and the ISI was rumored to be behind the attacks. Negative and fomenting terrorism as a tool of state policy

4. Extend Pakistan and Islam influence towards Central Asian republics. Positive and would help Afghan Economy

5. Establish economic relations with the oil-rich states of Central Asia by financing a government in Kabul that favors Pakistani interests. Positive and would help Afghan Economy

6. Contain the neighboring states from projecting their sphere of influence into Afghanistan.Sounds negative as it violates afghan sovriegnity

7. Make sure Pakistan plays an important role in the Afghan peace process, particularly in any post-2014 negotiations with the Taliban. For instance, Pakistan supported the idea of creating a Taliban office in Qatar, Doha in-order to maintain the presence of Taliban in Afghan politics after the NATO withdrawal. Negative and fomenting terrorism as a tool of state policy


India’s interests in Afghanistan:

1. Keep Afghanistan from being used as a base for Pakistan to train and coordinate terror attacks against Indian cities. -
Positive as Anti-terror Co-op

2. Weaken and limit Pakistani and Taliban/Pashtun influence over Afghan politics. -
Positive as a step againt taliban terrorism

3. Establish a network to access oil-rich regions of Central Asia via Afghanistan for pipeline projects and assure energy security.
Positive as it Benefits Afgan economy

4. India is seeking great power status, thus the Indian government should foster its sphere of influence across South Asia to promote regional stability. -
Again a positive to bring peace and stability

5. Maintain a certain level of political influence in Afghan politics. -
Positive as it doesn't violate Afghan
Sovereignty


6. Deliver financial aid in order to maintain some sort of economic influence over the Afghan economy. -
Positive as it benefits Aghan economy


It's a bit embarrassing that even Pakistanis view it's own role in Afghanistan as a destabilizing, negative and regressive in nature.
 
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We seem to give alot of scholorships . We even have scholarships for Srilankan students . I agree our own people should be our priority . FATA is clear of any insurgency now and is on its way to becoming a part of KPK . That would serve it well .

normally some Pakistani universities are offering 10 to 15 scholarships to People from baluchistan and FATA but if we compare it to no of scholarships given to Afghans its negligible.
if we are working with the same mindset of 80s when we preferred afghan refugees over our own peoples problems most likely our problems will continue for a long time.
and most of these students would still see Pakistan just like hamid karzai
 
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India built those things for own scheme of things. If India is so keen to help Afghanistan then please send your armed forces to fight against Taliban just like you had sent yours to Sri Lanka to fight "with" LTTE.

If India is friend of Afghanistan then in this difficult period India should take Afghan Refugees.




In short the thick skulls should stop being pawn of either India or anyone.

@somebozo

Everything does not go by the way Pakistan wish...It is your game you hosted million of refugee to make situation more advantageous for you...We always learn from our mistake..We learnt that it from Sri Lanka...Sending soldiers to Srilanka taught us one thing...If we want to influence mind of sane people, then we should invest our energy with their basic necessities rather than sending war to fight with them.So we are trying to improve our soft our image in Afganistan without putting our sodlier in Afgainstan..We do not mind sending doctors, teachers and other people who can improve the life of ordinary civilian..
 
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