Afghan Taliban say no links with Pakistani Taliban

[BATMAN]

Then, Sayyaf, admit that your nat'l interests collide with the U.N. mandate to stabilize Afghanistan. Doing so makes Pakistan complicit in the death of every afghan citizen, ISAF soldier, NGO or U.N. aid worker there.

Our govt. is run by Zardari and he is President just because america support him. Only, he in Pakistan have enough money to fund such activities but i doubt he is spending his money there.

The afghan taliban leadership wage war on Afghanistan from your lands.

Do you have a count how many so called afghan taliban are dead by now?
afghan taliban effectively controll 95% of afghanistan than why do they need to be in small tribal belt of Pakistan which is infested by US agents and mercanaries? and drones are active?
BTW......as per your claims al-qaeeda is also there! do you know how seriously Pakistan army is doing operation in same tribal belt?
In reality there is no conflict on Pakistan's action upon foreign elements on our soil but the conflict is that why US and indian arms and technology is found from TTP operating only in Pakistan?

Yes. That was a shame wasn't it? There's little doubting, given the available troops and time, that we did our best but simply didn't have enough troops. Nor did Pakistan have troops on the other side awaiting OBL. Those things happen during war.

Just two days ago before 9/11 OBL was having his treatment in American hospital in UAE and CIA cheif of region visited him.
If Pakistan was not waiting on other side than how come we captured most of al-qaeeda? is it a fact or not?

However, what explains them roosting on your lands for the subsequent eight years but for your open invitation to such. As you said,
"...its for our national interest!"
Pakistan and American interests are in direct conflict it seems.
Time for that to cease one way or another.

Thanks.

Past govt. of Pakistan never had any interest in any Taliban..... other wise they may have refused to hand over Mullah Zaeef. Who i hope was well interogated in US custodoy......so did you asked him about Taliban establishment?
At the same time past govt. propose to mine and fence the border to curtail illegal cross border movement, unfortunately idea did not accepted by US.
BTW.....today, TTP is killing the supporters of past govt. TTP also tried to kill P.Musharraf and Shaukat Aziz on various counts.

P.S.: On this forum no one is official represent of govt. of Pakistan and very few are professionals like you.

 

[S-2]

"It has already been surfaced that killings [of innocents] on Afghan side is done by Afghan national army..."

Actually, this is a lie. Plain and simple-

Here are the facts-

Afghanistan-Mid Year Bulletin On The Protection Of Civilians In Armed Conflict, 2009- UNAMA

Please note trend #10-

"Between January and June 2009, 595 civilian deaths were attributed to AGE [Anti-Government Elements] activities; 400 of those deaths were the result of indiscriminate IED and suicide attacks. This represents 67% of all deaths attributable to AGEs, or 39.5% of the total 1013 civilians killed in the first half of 2009. AGE operations are frequently undertaken regardless of the impact on civilians in terms of deaths and injuries or destruction of civilian infrastructure. Based on investigation of specific incidents conducted by UNAMA Human Rights, information suggests that AGEs are basing themselves in civilian areas so as to deliberately blur the distinction between combatants and civilians, and as part of what appears to be an active policy aimed at drawing a military response to areas where there is a high likelihood that civilians will be killed or injured."

Did you read carefully, Batman? 595 of 1013 civilians killed were done so by the taliban between January and June 2009. 400 died by IEDs. That means willfully targeted or killed without regard to their innocent status.

The taliban killed nearly 60% of all afghan civilians. ISAF about 30%. A 2:1 difference despite the so-called firepower heavy ISAF forces. That means the taliban are doing a lot of determined effort to terrorize simple afghans.

None of this is new nor does it even account for the numerous documented times that the non-governmental HRW (Human Rights Watch) has attested the afghan taliban have used human shields when faced with their imminent destruction.

The Human Cost: The Consequence Of Insurgent Attacks In Afghanistan-HRW April 2007

Quit lying to serve your own purposes. I'd especially encourage you to stop the dissemblance when the facts are so easily at hand that prove you wrong.

Afghans know that Pakistanis wish to dominate them via the afghan taliban. They're no fools. They've lived under these men once before. Now they see Pakistanis foist upon Afghans that which they won't accept for themselves in SWAT and Buner.

Poisonous.

Thanks.

 

[BATMAN]

I don't want to comment more on afghan turmoil but as i know more civilian casualties are from US military operations and bombings.
What is not clear who take over the children of dead (susupected) Taliban? and what happens to the injured ones?

 

[Sayyaf]

"...even IF we are protecting Taliban leadership, its for our national interest!"

Then, Sayyaf, admit that your nat'l interests collide with the U.N. mandate to stabilize Afghanistan. Doing so makes Pakistan complicit in the death of every afghan citizen, ISAF soldier, NGO or U.N. aid worker there.

The afghan taliban leadership wage war on Afghanistan from your lands.

"Its not our fault your army failed to kill Osama and other top wanted Al-Qaida and Taliban during battle of Torah Bora!"

Yes. That was a shame wasn't it? There's little doubting, given the available troops and time, that we did our best but simply didn't have enough troops. Nor did Pakistan have troops on the other side awaiting OBL. Those things happen during war.

However, what explains them roosting on your lands for the subsequent eight years but for your open invitation to such. As you said,

"...its for our national interest!"

Pakistan and American interests are in direct conflict it seems.

Time for that to cease one way or another.

Thanks.

Like i said before, remove indian presence in Afghanistan, secure your side of the border, and place a government that will not a pro india, the new gov should be neutral in Pakistan/india matters!

first do your part, then we'll do our part!

 

[S-2]

Sayyef, you must be a child-

"...remove indian presence in Afghanistan..."

India has every right to be inside Afghanistan if the elected Afghan government wishes so. Just like Pakistan.

"...place a government that will not a pro india, the new gov should be neutral in Pakistan/india matters!"

You must understand that only the afghan people may place the government of their desire in power. Not America. Not the U.N. Not the other forty plus nations there in Afghanistan whom Pakistan opposes.

The taliban will not even stand for election and you pray that the afghan people never see another election of any kind if you wish upon them the taliban again.

Over forty nations disagree with your use of proxy armies to make war on the afghan people just so you can dictate who they might have diplomatic relations with or not.

The Indian government out-competes Pakistan where it matters in the eyes of the world-diplomacy and foreign aid. This competition is accepted but Pakistan prefers to beat the afghan people into submission using a weapon they deem unsuitable for themselves in SWAT, Buner and elsewhere.

Afghans hate Pakistani interference in their lives and won't again tolerate those evil beasts whom you thrust upon them for nobody's gain but your own.

You have no bargaining point. You are wrong to make war on Afghanistan with proxy armies. Plain and simple.

Thanks.

 

[Jaawaan Khan]

"It has already been surfaced that killings [of innocents] on Afghan side is done by Afghan national army..."

Actually, this is a lie. Plain and simple-

Here are the facts-

Afghanistan-Mid Year Bulletin On The Protection Of Civilians In Armed Conflict, 2009- UNAMA

Please note trend #10-

"Between January and June 2009, 595 civilian deaths were attributed to AGE [Anti-Government Elements] activities; 400 of those deaths were the result of indiscriminate IED and suicide attacks. This represents 67% of all deaths attributable to AGEs, or 39.5% of the total 1013 civilians killed in the first half of 2009. AGE operations are frequently undertaken regardless of the impact on civilians in terms of deaths and injuries or destruction of civilian infrastructure. Based on investigation of specific incidents conducted by UNAMA Human Rights, information suggests that AGEs are basing themselves in civilian areas so as to deliberately blur the distinction between combatants and civilians, and as part of what appears to be an active policy aimed at drawing a military response to areas where there is a high likelihood that civilians will be killed or injured."

Did you read carefully, Batman? 595 of 1013 civilians killed were done so by the taliban between January and June 2009. 400 died by IEDs. That means willfully targeted or killed without regard to their innocent status.

The taliban killed nearly 60% of all afghan civilians. ISAF about 30%. A 2:1 difference despite the so-called firepower heavy ISAF forces. That means the taliban are doing a lot of determined effort to terrorize simple afghans.

None of this is new nor does it even account for the numerous documented times that the non-governmental HRW (Human Rights Watch) has attested the afghan taliban have used human shields when faced with their imminent destruction.

I don't believe it, what kind of wonderland (obviously infested with media news depicting only one angle) you are in?. I just can't comprehend when people start talking in terms of statistical figures about civilian deaths and forget IRAQ war where hired guns slaughter civilian by thousands, I am referring to CIA hired private killers (black water etc). When a foreign military occupy a sovereign nation (doesn't matter how badly it is governed) and try to enforce their agenda and policies which always results in insurgencies to protect one's land, to protect one's heritage etc.

Read these stories:
EurasiaNet Eurasia Insight - Afghanistan: Private Security Contractors Become a Source of Public Scorn

The Number Of Private Contractors In Afghanistan: 104,100

Also, to remind you these contractors are above normal rules of engagement in a war that is;they provide legal cover so that they could engage in coercive interrogations without fear of criminal prosecution and to show that the United States did not really engage in torture and was not really violating conventions governing cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment.

 

[S-2]

"I don't believe it, what kind of wonderland (obviously infested with media news depicting only one angle) you are in?."

WTF are you? That's a U.N.A.M.A. report-not media news.

Please check into the members intro board before spewing your irrelevant diatribes.

When you next return, stay on topic or stay away. I've no time for your nonsense, especially when you choose to butt into my reply to another about a specific misrepresentation of the facts.

If you can top the U.N.'s own assessment of the taliban's destruction of afghan civilians with a better and more current study, I'll be happy to read.

If not, back away with your unsubstantiated B.S. about another war in another time.

Thanks.

 

[waraich66]

A bald faced lie if there ever was one.

Qari Ziaur Rehman was the same guy that led thousands of fighters into Bajaur (from Afghanistan) in 2008 to assist a faction of the TTP led by Faqir Muhammed.



And you can clearly see the surge in violence in Bajaur since then.

Quite frankly Mullah Omar has little control over these 'commanders' in the field. Power rests with those who have the men and the guns in the end, and Afghan Taliban commanders like Zia-ur-Rehman have shown clearly that they have no qualms about cooperating with either the TTP or Al Qaeda.

TTP is not a single group , TNSM , Molvi Nazir , Molvi Bahadar and Haqqani and Baitullah Mehsud are big groups , all have different zones of operations .

Baitullah Mehsud group is most extremist group but now almost uprooted by PA and scattered in mountains .

Al Qaeda is operating in both side of boarders provide funds and training to these groups .

I dont agree that Mullah Omar dont have control on its cammanders , these cammanders are working as per instructions of Helmand shaurah.Basically shourah is body which is controlling Afghan Jehad.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

India has every right to be inside Afghanistan if the elected Afghan government wishes so. Just like Pakistan.

Now you harbour our enemies and provide them sancturies and expect us to fully cooperate with you and let India do mary hell inside Pakistan . The Afghan Gov is a huge joke the world knows it ...You cant deny that . Having facts on paper dosent makes them true , they have to exist in reality . And reality is you guys are letting the Indians do whatever they want to destablise Pakistan from the Afghan End. Now Pakistan has the right to contour that threat through all possible means , be it the support of those groups which would topple the Pro Indian Government in Afghanistan . I dnt care waf those 40 nations think , I just see you guys Harbouring my enemy which has done collosal damage to my country .

The quicker you realise the fact that India is our Enemy and the quicker you eliminate those Indian terror fueling consulates the quicker the PA will respond to your call of Eliminating the sanctuaries in Pakistan . Untill then you can just use the Predator to get somthing wonderfull out of it .

 

[S-2]

"Now you harbour our enemies and provide them sancturies..."

You are beyond hope. Welcome to my "ignore list".

 

[FireFighter]

American drones have killed far more civilians in Pakistan tribal belt compared to terrorists. The figure is over 700 civilians to 15 enemy combatants. And that's because our media has a foothold in those regions and is reporting it freely.

Could you guys try to imagine whats going on in Afghanistan which is under US occupation?

 

[waraich66]

American drones have killed far more civilians in Pakistan tribal belt compared to terrorists. The figure is over 700 civilians to 15 enemy combatants. And that's because our media has a foothold in those regions and is reporting it freely.

Could you guys try to imagine whats going on in Afghanistan which is under US occupation?

Sacrifice of Afghans will never be wasted , USA will also be disintegrated like USSR soon

 

[Sayyaf]

Sayyef, you must be a child-

"...remove indian presence in Afghanistan..."

India has every right to be inside Afghanistan if the elected Afghan government wishes so. Just like Pakistan.

"...place a government that will not a pro india, the new gov should be neutral in Pakistan/india matters!"

You must understand that only the afghan people may place the government of their desire in power. Not America. Not the U.N. Not the other forty plus nations there in Afghanistan whom Pakistan opposes.

The taliban will not even stand for election and you pray that the afghan people never see another election of any kind if you wish upon them the taliban again.

Over forty nations disagree with your use of proxy armies to make war on the afghan people just so you can dictate who they might have diplomatic relations with or not.

The Indian government out-competes Pakistan where it matters in the eyes of the world-diplomacy and foreign aid. This competition is accepted but Pakistan prefers to beat the afghan people into submission using a weapon they deem unsuitable for themselves in SWAT, Buner and elsewhere.

Afghans hate Pakistani interference in their lives and won't again tolerate those evil beasts whom you thrust upon them for nobody's gain but your own.

You have no bargaining point. You are wrong to make war on Afghanistan with proxy armies. Plain and simple.

Thanks.

Wow, i must hand it to you, your really good at speaking nonsense! You said "You must understand that only the afghan people may place the government of their desire in power. Not America. Not the U.N. Not the other forty plus nations there in Afghanistan whom Pakistan opposes." So why not let the Taliban return to Afghanistan because every Afghan felt more secure under them than this current puppet gov installed by AMERICA and the FORTY+ nations occupying it!

You said "Afghans hate Pakistani interference in their lives and won't again tolerate those evil beasts whom you thrust upon them for nobody's gain but your own." LMAO, is Pakistan the one who is occupying Afghanistan or is it America? Is Pakistan mercilessly bombing Afghans through air strikes and and artillery shelling or is ti America? Weren't these the same people whom your country and its allies called "freedom fighters"? And now they have become "beasts"! Wow, i love your hypocrisy!! And secondly i posted a video in which a educated and intelligent Afghan Doctor said "Taliban are Afghans"!

Here is the video:

thirdly, you said "The taliban will not even stand for election and you pray that the afghan people never see another election of any kind if you wish upon them the taliban again."

My answer is why would the Taliban even need to stand for elections? They control more than 70% of Afghanistan, they are winning the hearts and minds of the Afghan people! While your puppet installed Karzai gov is getting corrupt by the day! And besides Karzai can't even control Afghanistan, let alone Kabul lol!

 

[S-2]

" They control more than 70% of Afghanistan..."

Really? Prove it.

There's a map that shows the taliban have a heavy presence in 80% of Afghanistan but not control. Google up ICOS. Do you understand the difference between control and a heavy presence?

If not, let me help you with the map's definition. Heavy presence constitutes one lethal or non-lethal insurgent attack PER WEEK.

Hell, Peshawar meets that.

Is Peshawar controlled by the taliban?

BTW, Sayyaf, the taliban aren't the same people whom we worked with in the mujahideen. You, like too many Pakistanis, forget that the mujahideen comprised far more than simply pashtus. There were uzbeks, tajiks, hazara, and turkomen-none of which are in the taliban.

Moreover, virtually none of the taliban today can remember the Soviet-Afghan war. Twenty-one years ago. Most of their fighters are that age or younger.

There's no comparison.

Get your facts straight. Now show me your data that says the taliban CONTROL 70% of Afghanistan. I'll be eagerly awaiting those results. You betcha!

Thanks.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

usa=land HEAD BY MORONS with no human values AND WHO DONT GIVE A F.. ABOUT CIVILIAN CASUALITIES YOU CAN SEE IRAQ AFTER AND BEFORE THE WAR? ASSMERI/... DESTROYED IRAQ AND AND NOW FOUND WMDS(WANNABE MICHEAL JACKSONS FROM DETROIT,USA)