Afghan Army Chief’s Statement on Durand Line

[muse]

Why not we should claim boundaries of Pashtoon belt in Afghanistan? Why we are ever talking in retreated mode?

Because the pashtoon in Afghanistan do not want to be a part of Pakistan -- Why not? Because being a part of Pakistan is a CHANGE so severe that that they will reject with their guns -- As broken as Afghanistan is, it suits the rural Pashtun of Afghanistan, no change is required of them - for the urban Pashtun, what motivates them is communism, not Pakistan - they have their own history and their own national pride, for the Pashtun of Afghanistan, Pakistan is a utility.

So how could Pakistan hope to make itself more credible to the so called pashtun belt or at least urban Pashtuns?? ECONOMY - if you have ever been in Afghanistan, particularly the North East , South and South West, from Fauji Ghee, to kabas rolled up in "Statesman" news paers, to kohat cement everywhere, from the barber chairs to his utensils, all from Pakistan - but this is not enough - they must find a place for themselves in the Pakistan economy, a fit, a complementary fit --- and now things are very different, there are goods from China, a lot of goods from China, in the West, just like Pakistani goods in the East, it's dominated by Iran - and Iran have established excellent, as in outstanding relationships with Pashtuns.

So why are we in retreat mode?? ECONOMY!! See above.


what is Pakistan if FATA & PATA are not Pakistan? you mean Afghanistan service available to them?

If FATA and PATA is Pakistan how is it that Pakistani law does not apply there?? With regard to govt services, there is no experience or expectation of government services provided by the Afghan state, ever -- but that's not the EXPECTATION, from Pakistan.

Pakistan and Afghanistan are worlds apart when it comes to the kinds of states they are and/or were conceived as. With Zia's Islamize project, Pakistan may come across as a tribal hellhole, an anachronism but the reality of Pakistan is that it was envisioned and is structured as a modern development state, whereas Afghanistan was and is a state in which the center is retained by coercion and the promotion of inter-ethnic conflict.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Muse, hi.....

are you prepared to condemn the cross border raids in which thugs from the other side came, killed several Pakistani tribesmen --including 8 months pregnant young woman?

are you prepared to condemn them exacerbating an already dire situation -- when they bring their weapons and drugs to Pakistani side

are you prepared, in any shape or form -- to recognize the MONUMENTAL sacrifices my country --your country too --- has rendered???

 

[Ahmad]

self delete.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

my village is 15 km from Afghan border.....when nobody else gave shelter and BUILT homes (modest ones of course) for oppressed Afghan Hazaras --- the people in Parachinar did.

go to Badama area of Kurram and see the demographic changes that took place...they live totally scott-free.

as a Muslim, I'm not saying "ooooohhh we did this and did that so hmmppphh" kind of thing. No. This is farz. These are Pakhtun traditions. Give shelter to those who seek help and ask for it.

too bad that the extremists --who bring me great shame -- have totally aimed to destroy moderate, pseudo-secular Pakhtun traditions.


even 15 years ago, bombing jirgas and killing respected tribal elders was UNHEARD of. It was almost sacreligious!


I am not totally exonerating Pakistan......because I know for a fact that there are Pakistani citizens who have Afghan blood on their hands too. But when push comes to shove, the real loser here has been Pakistan.

and I wish we had the courage as Iran does. They know how to guard their sovereignty, they have not been back-stabbed and compromised

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

we all just want what's best for our countries......

my advice to Afghanistan leaders --- dont meddle with borders. Build your country.


restore it back to the peaceful, fun, Afghanistan of 1950s......

 

[muse]

Muse, hi.....

are you prepared to condemn the cross border raids in which thugs from the other side came, killed several Pakistani tribesmen --including 8 months pregnant young woman?

are you prepared to condemn them exacerbating an already dire situation -- when they bring their weapons and drugs to Pakistani side

are you prepared, in any shape or form -- to recognize the MONUMENTAL sacrifices my country --your country too --- has rendered???

Of course - these questions and the sentiment behind it do you no worthwhile service. I have only told you how it is -- See, AZ, we as Pakistan, can best influence and effect our behavior, right? I mean we can't bring a change in Afghanistan or US or Russia, we can bring a change in Pakistan - that is why I always focus on what we could have should have done.

About your comment regarding Iran --- You know, talking to all kinds of Afghans, the one complaint every Afghan had about Pakistan, was the police, the complaint about being shaken down, even the tribal criminals complaint about being shaken down by the police -- Now, in conversations with Hazara returning from Iran, I was really surprised that they did not complain about the police -- they complained about discrimination, about being called names such as Mongols and such -- I can't tell you what a huge finding this is - police or any kind of LEA, is what people complain about around the world, it was absolutely fascinating. So what the Iranians have set up is a "green card" system and allowed schooling. This area, education, has been a huge success for the Iranians - the free university in Shiraz has allowed hundreds of Hazara to return to Afghanistan as Engineers, yes sir, from peasant and Jamadar to Engineers, in a generation -- But how did this happen?

Let me come that after I detail to you the findings among Afghans returning from Pakistan -- The value these placed on education was Zip, Zero - fifteen and sixteen year olds with zero education - all Pashtun.

So how did Iran do it? -- For all it's Mullahgiri, Iranian society values education, like Pakistani society once used to, before Islam as the solution to every problem.

But there is a significant difference between the Pashtun and Hazara populations - The Hazara, victims of generation after generation, of discrimination, have learned that education is their way out of subservience -- the Pashtun have a poor relationship with the idea of change and the agents of change - until they are educated of course -- for me, the most dynamic part of Pakistan are educated Pashtun and by educated I mean a liberal science education and no other kind - of all Pakistanis, they "get it", they get what it's for.

But of course ever since, islam the solution for everything became the ideology of the state, it is common and sad, to hear from parents that their children deserve an education like other children have in the world.

 

[Omar1984]

And as if the Taliban dont claim on KP, is that what you say? then you are wrong, bear in mind that the Taliban are also Pashtun, it is purely ethnic issue, it is not afghan thing.

Even though Taliban are almost all Pashtuns, we have had best relations with Afghanistan under Taliban rule. We have had bad relations with Afghanistan under your other past rulers, and present day rulers of Afghanistan (which I am not sure who is ruling Afghanistan these days).

I understand that the non-pashtuns of Afghanistan dont want more Pashtuns in their country, but you people are very pro-india and very anti-pakistan. Better to be neutral like Iran is towards Pakistan vs India, and then maybe Pakistan will support the non-pashtuns of Afghanistan.

 

[Ahmad]

Even though Taliban are almost all Pashtuns, we have had best relations with Afghanistan under Taliban rule. We have had bad relations with Afghanistan under your other past rulers, and present day rulers of Afghanistan (which I am not sure who is ruling Afghanistan these days).

I understand that the non-pashtuns of Afghanistan dont want more Pashtuns in their country, but you people are very pro-india and very anti-pakistan. Better to be neutral like Iran is towards Pakistan vs India, and then maybe Pakistan will support the non-pashtuns of Afghanistan.

Taliban had better relations with pakistan, yes, but you shouldnt be a rocket scientist to figure this out, they needed pakistan for their wars against the Mujahideen thats why they were good with you at that time.

 

[Respect4Respect01]

some idiots just like to say crap without thinking that it will cause problems.

 

[fast and furious]

i'm just simply describing to you what happened......i've heard similar stories about some of their cadets in the 'ANA'.

they come to Pakistan, take jobs (mostly menial ones --but jobs nevertheless), a lot of them are getting free healthcare; since there are Pakistani doctors and NGOs that see and treat these people free of cost. They dont pay taxes, they are bound by no movement restrictions (unlike what the far more prepared Iranians did)

i have nothing against people I can call brothers. But they are 'troubled' brothers. You have never been to Pakistan and certainly haven't been to Peshawar or anywhere else in KP or FATA areas; so there's no way you would either fathom what I am saying or understand it.

I belong to that side of Pakistan and I have seen the social and economic costs of having to deal with this unstable and unruly neighbour --a country that has been screwed over as much by foreign invaders as by their own 'leaders' (warlords).


again --- wouldnt expect you --being indian and all -- to understand[/QUOTE

Wanted to respond to you.But looking at the no. of your posts and the Bolded part,naah I am good.
All the best with your 'troubled' brothers.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Don't be ridiculous. Share your thoughts or concerns by all means, don't worry about post counts or things like that.

 

[azfar]

Somebody give some naswar to general please.

 

[Battle Axe]

Taliban had better relations with pakistan, yes, but you shouldnt be a rocket scientist to figure this out, they needed pakistan for their wars against the Mujahideen thats why they were good with you at that time.

Initially, we also offered a lot to this Northern Alliance and the Karazai government and I remember Musharraf admitting there, that past relations may have been sour but lets build on. And all NA & Karazai did was, invite Indians as a means of a startegic alternative to us.

He may, by all means invite Indians but why blame us, we were ready to patch up & provide support on critical fronts.

 

[fast and furious]

Don't be ridiculous. Share your thoughts or concerns by all means, don't worry about post counts or things like that.

No sir I am not scared of post counts or the rank when it comes to a discussion.My point is that after 5000+ posts(meaning being exposed to all kind of views for so long) you come up with a line like 'again wouldnt expect you to understand-being an Indian and all' kind of defeats the purpose of
putting my views in front of you.
But still here goes-Sir there is no way an incompetent person can replace a competent one at his job except for lower salaries.So If A can survive on X amount so can B in the same country(cost of living).This arguement is not valid for outsourcing jobs to a different country where the cost of living can be different.But you said the Afghans come to Pakistan and take your jobs despite of the being less competent than Pakistanis.
Now what you posted earlier about the Afghans taking your jobs and putting pressure on your civic resources holds true for Pakistanis and Indians alike in US,UK etc with the exception that they dont view Indians as hostile unlike the Pakistanis because of you know WOT,Burqua and fundamentalism.
An average American and Brit has all the rights to feel the same for you( I mean Pakistanis). But that is not the behaviour expected out of people like you who play a part in shaping the intellect of the common man,the daily labourer etc.This kinda thought process only brings Tensions,instabilty and violence (god forbid).

All I wanted to say was people(Think tanks) like you who people look upto(No. of thanks to your posts) should look for peaceful and inclusive solutions rather than complaining about a real difficult problem.

 

[Ahmad]

Initially, we also offered a lot to this Northern Alliance and the Karazai government and I remember Musharraf admitting there, that past relations may have been sour but lets build on. And all NA & Karazai did was, invite Indians as a means of a startegic alternative to us.

He may, by all means invite Indians but why blame us, we were ready to patch up & provide support on critical fronts.

i am sure they didnt give any advantage to the indians over paksitan. secondly, it is mostly out of NA what you say as they are not in power, they are the opposition.