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Additional F-16s for Pakistan May Hit Hurdles

Indeed, it has been expressed in recent times by Officials which indicates that Pakistan will likely to go with JFT, F-16s and FC-31 which looks befitting equation as per visible financial picture but on other hand, somehow, a 4.5++ platform is needed to fill the long range, mutlirole heavy strike package gap and looking at the turbulence in US_PAK relations, seems like we are seriously looking at other options as well that may minimize the full reliance on F-16s alone. Induct as much as F-16s (looks like preferred 110 number to be achieved), invest and stick with JFT to overcome the shortage of retiring fleet not in numbers but most with advance tech which will cut short the number psych as one JFT would serve the purpose of 2 old retiring ACs and continue with FC-31 program for future procurement. It is also rumored that PAF would go for Russian or French so I think SU-35 fits the bill here against costly French gadgets but on other hand will affect the budget allocation for JFT. So, so much ambiguities but showing interest in French or Russian weaponry could be more like to build the pressure to achieve the dreamed numbers of F-16s.

Fully agree, but the financials are the main reason PAF is not investing in any project but JFT and due to our economy they will think thousand times before investing in any platform.
 
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We have quite extensive maintenance set up and experties in maintaining F-16s. Going for say some 20 plus or say 36 J-10s etc would mean we are directing our money, manpower towards them and in the end these would definitely prove costly and difficult to maintain. F-16 comes in straight for induction and no training, no new set up is required and more over they are battle proven and had given awesome results. At this time the plan seems to be going for mix of Thunders and F-16s and later on directly go for some twin engine aircraft of latest generation as hinted by CAS PAF. J-31, SU-35 etc....it all depends. Till that happens PAF has to plug in the gap being created by retirement of old Mirages and F-7s and this calls for as much F-16s we can get as possible. Who knows we might see some used F-16s from countries like Belgium etc on the footing of what we got from Jordan. Even block-15 are much more potent and capable than F-7s and Non Rose Mirages and we can upgrade these old F-16s to any standard we can when required.
 
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Why is Pakistan so desperate to induct American F-16s? Why not the Chinese J-11D variant with fixed electronically scanned array radar, IRST, and capability to fire heavier imaging/infrared (IIR) air-to-air missiles. The air frame makes greater use of composite materials, especially in the engine intakes for lower radar observability. The wings have three hardpoints each. The Chinese claim that it has a new fly-by-wire control system, glass cockpit, improved EW systems, and an improved version of the WS-10A engine.

And it will come for a song, a fraction of the cost of an F-16, seeing that the Chinese would be selling it to their 'trusted' all weather friends at discounted rates.

Why buy when you can get same capability with very small expenditure?

Again it depends on who has deep pockets. LM not only make F16s, but there are many things it sells to India, moreover the F16s that Pakistan is getting is from tax payers money of US.

And there also a news that says Modi is interested in setting up F16 factory in India. If it happens than I guess Pakistan can forget getting F16's ever.

There won't be an F-16 production line in India. If there ever is, there are other lines open in Turkey and Western Europe. As far Pakistan never getting F-16s (ever) again, I thought such claims have been shattered with great embarrassment?! Guess not, we will have to keep doing it again and again. There will be more F-16s and a new aircraft (likely 5th gen) coming. Get use to it now, please.
 
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Given the noise that India made for those 8 F16s, any additional F16s for Pakistan in present circumstances is just a dream
Has all the habitual whining by India stopped the US from supplying the gunships or the 8 F-16s.
The Americans know the Indian psyche well..... just like a baby they give you a dummy to keep quite.
While they tell you the F-16s are meant to be used against terrorists but at the same time they are supplying PAF with cutting technology weapons and systems only meant for modern day air combat.... at the end of the day, our dreams have become your nightmares. :lol:
 
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Fully agree, but the financials are the main reason PAF is not investing in any project but JFT and due to our economy they will think thousand times before investing in any platform.

Well apart from numbers and gap fill with F-16s, IMO, PAF has set priority to address the area of tech first by acquiring AESA & BVR for current available options, most probably for JFT in upcoming block(s) with secondary goal to go for low observable, long range multirole which could be almost covered by FC-31 in future. SU-35 seems logical but such claim doesn't carry the weight yet though PAF is full of surprises.
 
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Eq seems very difficult If for instance we speed up our production for F17 it will be 24 for next 5 years we will see not more than 150 total (Since Export orders are also there) . So force will look like

Till 2020
100 -120 F16 (AMLU/BMLU , C/D)
150 (Inshallah all Block 3)
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250

Remaining 100 will be tricky ones
Mirages (3/5) 50
F7PG 40

So technically we will be requiring 90 planes additional to what we can get realistically .For 50 Mirages 36 Flankers SU-35 can do a good job .F7 PG should continue for 5 years and we can start replacing them with 5th Gen 50 .Real worry for me is replacement of F16`but it will be around 2030 + .I think we shoudl not worry what we really need is like 90 planes .If we are able to induct 100 FC31 that will be some force to reckon with
 
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And there also a news that says Modi is interested in setting up F16 factory in India. If it happens than I guess Pakistan can forget getting F16's ever.

How does setting up a F-16 factory in India going to impact anything? This F-16 factory, if it ever materializes, will only service India's fleet of F-16s, not others. It's not an exclusive deal.

Lockheed Martin will continue to manufacture and service F-16s for other countries, including Pakistan. Turkey can also do the upgrades too.

Has all the habitual whining by India stopped the US from supplying the gunships or the 8 F-16s.
The Americans know the Indian psyche well..... just like a baby they give you a dummy to keep quite.
While they tell you the F-16s are meant to be used against terrorists but at the same time they are supplying PAF with cutting technology weapons and systems only meant for modern day air combat.... at the end of the day, our dreams have become your nightmares. :lol:

US doesn't give everything Pakistan wants, not any more, only enough for counter-insurgency and counter-terrorism.
 
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US doesn't give everything Pakistan wants, not any more, only enough for counter-insurgency and counter-terrorism.

True that.....please tell us what weapons or systems did US deny which Pakistan was asking for.

1531677_1729077257329624_8726467613244418124_n.jpg
 
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True that.....please tell us what weapons or systems did US deny which Pakistan was asking for.

1531677_1729077257329624_8726467613244418124_n.jpg

Aside for weapons for precision strikes, what else are you getting for these eight F-16s? Any air-to-air missiles?

And what about other weapon systems Pakistan has requested and not received? Perry-class frigates and cutters? Predator and Reaper drones?
 
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ISLAMABAD — Additional F-16s from the US remain central to Pakistan’s modernization efforts, but analysts say since there could be hurdles ahead, surplus fighters may be a credible alternative.

News reports here citing senior officials have stated that the air force requires some 190 new aircraft to replace its legacy Mirage III/5 and Chengdu F-7 fighter fleets by 2020. Some of this figure will be made up of JF-17 Thunder Block III aircraft which air force officials have stated will feature a leap in capabilities over the current aircraft in service.

However, there is no expectation that current JF-17 production will be ramped up in either Pakistan or China — or perhaps both — to meet this need, and further F-16s are being sought, hence the recent deal for eight F-16 Block 52 fighters.

This deal is almost finalized, and Pakistan appears to be placing faith in Lockheed Martin’s need to keep the F-16 line running with new orders to help it acquire another ten F-16s that it had initially hoped to acquire with the recently cleared aircraft.

Claude Rakisits, senior fellow at Georgetown University's School of Foreign Service and an expert on Pakistani affairs, is optimistic.

“Given that the Obama administration recently managed to have Congress approve the sale of eight F-16s to Pakistan, logically the sale of an additional 10 F-16s shouldn't be a real issue for Congress,” he said. “Also, given the constructive nature of the ministerial-level US-Pakistan Strategic Dialogue, which was held in Washington recently, objective indications are that convincing Congress should not be too difficult.”

However, the recent admission by Pakistan’s adviser to the prime minister on foreign affairs, Sartaj Aziz, at a meeting hosted by the Council on Foreign Relations that Pakistan had provided “various degrees of support to the Taliban since 2001” may prove counterproductive.

“While everyone in Washington suspected that was the case, the fact that Aziz admitted this quite casually and publicly as if there was nothing to it may well have damaged Pakistan's chances of getting those additional fighter jets,” Rakisits said. “Wavering US senators may not be so keen to sell such sophisticated hardware to a country which has openly admitted providing assistance and refuge to the Taliban despite denying doing so since 2001. So in light of Sartaj Aziz's admission, Pakistan may well have to look elsewhere to modernize its air force.”



Pakistani officials have noted French and Russian aircraft as alternatives, though the former are admitted by them to be expensive, and little appears to have come of reported talks for Russia’s Su-35 Flanker.

Rakisits also cites China as an alternative source.

Pakistan had planned to acquire an advanced variant of the Chengdu J-10 Firebird, but this plan appears to have been ditched. Pakistan has subsequently been linked to the stealthy Shenyang J-31/F-60, but there is no official confirmation of plans.

Given it is still in development, the J-31 is not applicable to the current time frame requirement.

Analyst, author and former air force pilot Kaiser Tufail said Pakistan does not have many options.

“There has been talk of 10 more F-16C/D-52 to add to the eight approved a few days ago. That should complete one more squadron of this latest version," he said. "We have the infrastructure to simply add aircraft into the system, something that would not be so easily doable in case of Russian or Chinese systems.

“Switching to a small number of Russian and Chinese aircraft would not be a good idea from the point of view of maintainability, as it would entail major investments in new back shops, test benches and many more maintenance facilities.”

Even though Pakistan’s economy is recovering from economic mayhem wrought by the previous government and its foreign currency reserves are approaching $20 billion, such an investment is unrealistic.

Tufail, however, said there is still a credible alternative to additional F-16s.

“Surplus F-16A/B-MLU from European countries are the best option, and other than range, they do not differ majorly from the Blk-52s. I think they will serve our requirements very well, particularly as we have big numbers to fill in,” he said.

Pakistan hopes to maintain a combat force of 350-400 aircraft, and the F-16 clearly plays a large role in this endeavor even though up to 250 may eventually be JF-17 variants. In this regard, Tufail said Washington is in a very advantageous position vis-à-vis its relationship with Islamabad.

“The fact that the Americans can use the F-16s and such hardware for political leverage must not be lost on us, unless we are ready for a complete break. That would be suicidal, as much of the high-tech element of the [Pakistan Air Force] is sourced from the USA,” he said
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Nevertheless, he remains optimistic.

“The danger of sanctions is and has always been there, but things do not seem that bad as far as [Pakistan]-US relations are concerned.”

Rakistis, however, said despite Washington’s clearly advantageous position, the spoiling party may not be Pakistan, but Congress, which could start flexing its muscles over the additional 10 F-16s.

“One shouldn't forget that while the sale of the eight F-16s has pretty much been finalized, it's not as if it was plain sailing getting it through Congress. This additional request may be going a bridge too far for some senators, especially in this highly charged election year,” he said.

Additional F-16s for Pakistan may hit hurdles

@Windjammer @MastanKhan @araz @OverLoad @Quwa @Neutron @Oscar @Bratva @Horus


Not unduly concerned. The JF-17 project and the miraculous rise of advanced Chinese fighter jet developments has given Pakistan suitable alternatives.

Having said that, a large number of people were saying that the current batch of 8 F-16s would not be sold to Pakistan. Look what happened there.
 
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Not unduly concerned. The JF-17 project and the miraculous rise of advanced Chinese fighter jet developments has given Pakistan suitable alternatives.

Having said that, a large number of people were saying that the current batch of 8 F-16s would not be sold to Pakistan. Look what happened there.

True, but it wasn't a smooth process. And the next ten won't be either, whenever it happens.
 
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Aside for weapons for precision strikes, what else are you getting for these eight F-16s? Any air-to-air missiles?

And what about other weapon systems Pakistan has requested and not received? Perry-class frigates and cutters? Predator and Reaper drones?
PAF had already received sufficient numbers of AMRAAMS (500) earlier.
The current package also includes about 15 JHMCS. As for rest, even the Viper gunships faced some hurdles, eventually being supplied....the likes of Predator incorporates sensitive technology, i doubt it's being sold to any other country yet.....our own Buraq is proving quite sufficient.
 
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Why buy when you can get same capability with very small expenditure?



There won't be an F-16 production line in India. If there ever is, there are other lines open in Turkey and Western Europe. As far Pakistan never getting F-16s (ever) again, I thought such claims have been shattered with great embarrassment?! Guess not, we will have to keep doing it again and again. There will be more F-16s and a new aircraft (likely 5th gen) coming. Get use to it now, please.


That's because a lot of indians (including those on pdf) genuinely believe their nation is a superpower and that they can influence the americans. A lot of indians were confident that the americans would not sell Pakistan thise 8 F-16s
True, but it wasn't a smooth process. And the next ten won't be either, whenever it happens.


As far as Pakistan is concerned, nothing is ever smooth. The point is that the americans will ultimately do whatever is on their agenda no matter what. Apart from the Israelis and western Europeans, the concerns of everybody else means nothing to them.

That's because a lot of indians (including those on pdf) genuinely believe their nation is a superpower and that they can influence the americans. A lot of indians were confident that the americans would not sell Pakistan these 8 F-16s



As far as Pakistan is concerned, nothing is ever smooth. The point is that the americans will ultimately do whatever is on their agenda no matter what. Apart from the Israelis and western Europeans, the concerns of everybody else means nothing to them.
 
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on top of the 8 F-16s, Pakistan will procure additional 18 new F-16s and 36 F-16s from the secondary market.
 
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