Acts of Terrorism in pakistan I

[blain2]

If they are not the same, what was JeM doing in LM?

Who knows but in turn I would also say that maybe JeM is there and maybe its not...its far too easy for the Indian authorities to name any Pakistani organization and call those fighting in IOK to be members of these organizations to implicate Pakistan even more.

My sole point is that Kashmir problem predates the extremist problem that Pakistan is facing...there seems to be certain convergence in the goals of various individuals and organizations, but Pakistani extremism is not a by-product of Indian occupation of Kashmir. IOK has its own root, causes, reasons to be in flames...its not only because of militants in Pakistan. You guys have screwed up plenty in IOK to blame yourseleves and then outsiders.

 

[Samudra]

Your national obsession with Kashmir and the hypocrisy associated with will one day come to haunt you in one grand manner.

As it is, some kids from earth quake stuck areas were taken off to madrassas by the Islamic fundamentalists and some are getting radicalized as we speak.

Deny your children their future in the name of a freedom struggle. And ofcourse throw in your religion too. Gift suicide bomb-belts and AK-47s to your kids.

You just got Lal Masjid. You want more ?

Many of your kids almost became terrorists. You don't want to learn your lesson. Go on. Continue with your 'freedom struggle' and call it a comparison of apples and oranges while kids are hired to throw grenades in Kashmir.

Your kids. Your country's future. You want to make 'freedom fighters' out of them...go on.

As for us...if you're sending potential engineers, doctors, scientists and architects with an AK-47 into Kashmir we can only guarantee a respectable funeral.

From the battlefields of the epic Ramayana to the Kargil episode we've not failed to respect the dead of the enemy. That much civilization and respect for the enemy's men we have left in us

Point is, why can't you respect the lives of your future generation as much as we do ?

Its just the elite far away from ground realities waxing eloquent about Kashmir while the kids of the poor are brainwashed and sent into Kashmir as 'freedom fighters'.

How many of you people sitting and typing it out in forums are going in or sending your kids or brothers to fight your freedom struggle eh ?

I'm sure you'll choose a better path for yourselves and your family while the less better off starving Pakistani's and people from Northern Areas die out there.

What do you call it....yeah 'moral and diplomatic support!' Thats is what most of you are going to provide. Some freedom struggle we're told about!

Of course, its all the fault of Hindu India.

 

[blain2]

Your national obsession with Kashmir and the hypocrisy associated with will one day come to haunt you in one grand manner.

As it is, some kids from earth quake stuck areas were taken off to madrassas by the Islamic fundamentalists and some are getting radicalized as we speak.

Deny your children their future in the name of a freedom struggle. And ofcourse throw in your religion too. Gift suicide bomb-belts and AK-47s to your kids.

You just got Lal Masjid. You want more ?

Many of your kids almost became terrorists. You don't want to learn your lesson. Go on. Continue with your 'freedom struggle' and call it a comparison of apples and oranges while kids are hired to throw grenades in Kashmir.

Your kids. Your country's future. You want to make 'freedom fighters' out of them...go on.

As for us...if you're sending potential engineers, doctors, scientists and architects with an AK-47 into Kashmir we can only guarantee a respectable funeral.

From the battlefields of the epic Ramayana to the Kargil episode we've not failed to respect the dead of the enemy. That much civilization and respect for the enemy's men we have left in us

Point is, why can't you respect the lives of your future generation as much as we do ?

Its just the elite far away from ground realities waxing eloquent about Kashmir while the kids of the poor are brainwashed and sent into Kashmir as 'freedom fighters'.

How many of you people sitting and typing it out in forums are going in or sending your kids or brothers to fight your freedom struggle eh ?

I'm sure you'll choose a better path for yourselves and your family while the less better off starving Pakistani's and people from Northern Areas die out there.

What do you call it....yeah 'moral and diplomatic support!' Thats is what most of you are going to provide. Some freedom struggle we're told about!

Of course, its all the fault of Hindu India.

Dont talk to me about hypocrisy....on one end you run off your mouth about ******* democracy and how your country and the US is the leader of the democratic world but when it comes to a certain population and certain part of your country, you guys shy away from it as if you have never heard of self determination. Double standards and hypocrisy reigns supreme everywhere...you and India are no exception.

I could care less about Kashmir...for me you don't deserve any more or less than we deserve it but who in the hell are you to preach what I can and can't say about Kashmir and its freedom struggle? For that matter how in the hell do you represent those picking up a gun and standing guard on India's border since you have never done so?? Not being part of the Kashmir freedom struggle does not mean that I cannot support it. I am not suggesting people go in and fight it out...there are plenty of Kashmiris in IOK doing it themselves. So please don't take this holier than thou attitude with me.

Extremism is not a creation of Pakistan and it was not created in a vacuum. So while you can blame some for taking advantange of the situation, do not for a second assume that the thousands put under the gun by your brave would be forgotten just because some of those fighting against your might sena happen to be similar to the mindset of people that we are facing makes our fight or support hypocritical.

 

[Keysersoze]

Samudra you have a uncanny knack of starting arguments where none existed...... try not talking down to people.......

 

[ARSENAL6]

hmm hunting down Muslim extremisim is ok if its done by Pakistan. I guess only when India does it they are called freedom fighters and Jihad and so on.

THat happens everywhere in every culture and in every nation NOT only in Pakistan or in any Muslim state.

 

[dabong1]

Pakistan troops killed in ambush

Troops have come under attack in recent days
At least 17 Pakistani soldiers have been killed in an ambush by militants near the Afghan border, officials say.
Twelve militants also died in the clash about 25km (15 miles) from Miranshah in North Waziristan, the army said.

President Musharraf has again ruled out declaring an emergency. There have been a spate of attacks since soldiers stormed a radical mosque in Islamabad.

The mosque assault prompted militants along the border to scrap controversial peace accords with the government.

Meanwhile, Pakistan has dismissed a US intelligence report that says al-Qaeda has re-grouped and gained strength on Pakistan's north-western border with Afghanistan.

Foreign ministry spokeswoman Tasnim Aslam said the document contained what she called unsubstantiated assertions, and she called for concrete and actionable intelligence to back them up.

The report, published on Tuesday, argued that crumbling state control in the frontier region had offered al-Qaeda an increasingly comfortable hide-out from which to plot attacks, including on the United States.

Suicide bombings

A military spokesman said that in addition to the soldiers killed on Wednesday, another 14 had been injured in the ambush in the Lwara Mundi area of North Waziristan.



Pro-Taleban militants are said to have attacked the soldiers' convoy with rockets, then opened fire with automatic weapons.

Military officials said 12 militants were also killed in the gun battle, as well as five others in a separate clash in the area. There was no immediate independent confirmation of the claim.

Speaking to newspaper editors in Islamabad, President Musharraf again stressed that he would not announce a state of emergency in the face of the violence.

"Al-Qaeda has weakened because of the actions taken by Pakistani forces," the state-run APP news agency quoted him as saying.

"We are in direct confrontation with the extremist forces - moderates versus extremists."

Gen Musharraf also promised that elections due later this year would be held on time, APP said.

The latest violence followed a suicide bombing in North Waziristan on Tuesday that killed three soldiers and a civilian.

Three suicide blasts over the weekend left more than 70 dead near the border.

On Tuesday evening, a bomb killed at least 15 people at a lawyers' rally in the capital, Islamabad. It is not clear who was behind that attack.

'Holy war'

Militants say they have torn up their peace agreement with the government because new check posts have been set up in the tribal area and compensation has not been paid to families of tribesmen killed in army operations.

Pakistani authorities have been trying to shore up the deal since it broke down on Saturday.

Correspondents say that without it, the army risks fresh violence in a region thought to contain many militants.

The government has sent thousands of new troops to the north-west fearing there could be a new "holy war" in revenge for the siege.

Many of the militants in the Red Mosque (Lal Masjid) complex in the capital were thought to have come from the north-west.

President Pervez Musharraf last week vowed to root out extremists "from every corner of the country".


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6904104.stm

 

[Samudra]

when it comes to a certain population and certain part of your country,

I'm sure you know that Kashmiri people in India vote in their elections to elect their Chief Minister and Prime Minister. Democracy has nothing to do with fulfilling whimsical wishes of every individual and community.

I remember how PTV once showed footage of Indian soldiers filling up all ballot sheets and putting them into the ballot boxes. They only forgot that we began using electronic voting machines five years before.

who in the hell are you to preach what I can and can't say about Kashmir and its freedom struggle?

Nonsense. I'm only telling you to keep doing what you're doing now. Go right ahead. Godspeed.

For that matter how in the hell do you represent those picking up a gun and standing guard on India's border since you have never done so??

In case you imagined I support any non-member of the armed forces running across the border with an INSAS...you're badly mistaken. Only the Indian Armed Forces and their various off-shoots have my support - unlike many across the border supporting terrorists.

So while you can blame some for taking advantange of the situation, do not for a second assume that the thousands put under the gun by your brave would be forgotten just because some of those fighting against your might sena happen to be similar to the mindset of people that we are facing makes our fight or support hypocritical.

Nice try but its the same people you supported and armed in the name of a freedom struggle and strategic depth who're suddenly becoming terrorists in your eyes.They're not having similar mindsets..they ARE the same.

You support them or fight them according to the wishes of the General ruling Pakistan.

So I repeat what you've told me....

So please don't take this holier than thou attitude with me.

Thank you.

 

[Samudra]

Samudra you have a uncanny knack of starting arguments where none existed...... try not talking down to people.......

Oh please Sir. Don't tell me we're all here to agree with everybody every morning and then go home patting each others backs. As regards to talking down I'm afraid its only your perception.

If you'd ask me I'll say I'm just being a little too honest and generous with the truth for your comfort. But although truth differs in each persons perspective - so long as the words trying to convey them are by no means derogatory to another equally respectable fellow member of the forum typing them out in a generous manner is most certainly not a problem. The more the merrier actually.

In fact I've been giving some people a little more respect than they deserve.

We just can't go around calling people pagans, their faith as false concoctions in derogatory manners and questioning the legitimacy of their faiths, asking their caste's and what nots. Of course there happen to be idiots who do try these stunts and to these people I'm giving more than enough respect as it is.

I distinctly remember how you came to my rescue when all of the said derogatory acts were committed against me and promptly had the thread locked up only yesterday.

After all we're civilized people. Are we not ?

All this is off-topic. You should delete after reading.

 

[solid snake]

I can't believe the day has come that Chinese people are under threat from terrorists in Pakistan. I mean, until now, even the hardcore extermists have realized the importance of Pak-China friendship but now in their desperate attempts to lash out, they are targetting those things that will hurt Pakistan the most. Anyone who treatens any foreign or Pakistani person in Pakistan needs to be dealt with firmly.

Relying on the Taliban to counter the growing Indian presence in central Asia is not the way to go about it. The Taliban are just a bunch of bearded fanatics, they can't hurt a military power like India. We need to make sure we're friendly with Afghanistan, and those -stans in central Asia.

Exterminating extermism is in the interests of both Pakistan and China, I hope our leaders realize that. I bet the MMA dosen't. Stupid mullahs.

 

[niaz]

What are we discussing here ?

Ghazi brothers and Lal Masjid mobs were criminals. They were trying to hold the nation hostage to impose their views on others by force. No nation, including Saudi Arabia; strictest follower of Wahabi doctrine will allow it. This was evident in the Mehdi incident in the 70's when Saudi forces stormed Kaaba ( no place is holier than kabaa) without a second thought.

Lal masjid mob including female students were hardened criminals and terrorists, this is proven by the fact that they fought the army for 6 days and even women wont come out despite many calls to do so.


Dont care what non Pakistanis think, I respect their views but it doesnt matter a fig on the ground. But I feel very strongly about all Pakistanis who have respect and a soft spot for these Lal Masjid thugs.

I repeat:

1. Neither of these brothers were renowned scholars; in fact all Islamic scholars distanced themselves from their actions.

2. They were not democratically elected leaders either.

3. They amassed weapons including machine guns ang gas masks and fought the army for 6 days and threatened the country with suicide bombings. There is hardly a crime that they didnot commit. If an ordinary member of joe public was guilty of any of their actions, he would rot in jail for the rest of his life or killed without a single tear being shed.

4. Their links with terrorists are evident that very next day Al Zawahari came out in support.

5. We have witnessed the after math in the form for continuos suicide bombings for the last one week which proves that threat of suicide bombing was not a bluff.

My fellow compatriots, if you have slightest love for your country, how can you show any respect for the people responsible. Have we lost all sense of rationality or our reasoning is so twisted that we fail to see that Govt action was necessary and that the two brothers deserve condemnation not praise. What kind of people are providing succour to the suicide bombers who are carrying out their murderous spree??.

If despite everything this Pakistanis sympathise with such criminals, and help them ( they must have help to enable them to carry out the bombings); all I can say that Pakistan as a state is grave danger because Pakistanis dont desrves a prosperous Pakistan. I can only hold my head and despair at the foolishness of my compatriots.

 

[Keysersoze]

Oh please Sir. Don't tell me we're all here to agree with everybody every morning and then go home patting each others backs. As regards to talking down I'm afraid its only your perception.

If you'd ask me I'll say I'm just being a little too honest and generous with the truth for your comfort. But although truth differs in each persons perspective - so long as the words trying to convey them are by no means derogatory to another equally respectable fellow member of the forum typing them out in a generous manner is most certainly not a problem. The more the merrier actually.

In fact I've been giving some people a little more respect than they deserve.

We just can't go around calling people pagans, their faith as false concoctions in derogatory manners and questioning the legitimacy of their faiths, asking their caste's and what nots. Of course there happen to be idiots who do try these stunts and to these people I'm giving more than enough respect as it is.

I distinctly remember how you came to my rescue when all of the said derogatory acts were committed against me and promptly had the thread locked up only yesterday.

After all we're civilized people. Are we not ?

All this is off-topic. You should delete after reading.

Hmmmm thanks for proving my point.......

I actually locked that thread before and only re-opened it at the behest of the original poster who was trying to make a (positive) point about how we are actually all similar etc etc......Unfortunately YOU got there first and turned it into a personal war between you and others...hence it got closed again.

When a mild mannered member tells you to stop preaching and taking a "holier than thou" attitude it is not just my perception. I am leaving your post up to show how far up your own *** you are.....

 

[blitz]

Ok i have said it earlier also, but somehow my posts are often neglected by our Pakistani friends.

Let us assume for one moment, that it is indeed India that has illegaly occupied Kashmir and opresses its people. That the 'freedom struggle' there has indigenous roots and the struggle there is moral and just.

But, do our Pakistani friends here accept or deny the fact that there is a bit of obsession among the Pakistani masses about liberating Kashmir ? Also, do you deny or accept that atleast some amount of Pakistani youth do cross over across the LOC in order to fight for the freedom of their Kashmiri brethen ? And lastly, do you deny or accept that the emergence of anti-national islamic militant movements in Pakistan, and radicalization of a big chunk of its population is linked with the struggle in Kashmir to a certain extent ?

If your answer is yes to any of these questions, then tell me what has Pakistan achieved in this endevour ? The 'bleed India with a thousand cuts' policy doesn't seem to be working, or does it ? Since the insurgency started, India has developed in leaps and bounds, and now poised to be a major global power. Its economy has swelled, its politics has stabilized, its military and influence has grown exponentially. And all this while still occupying what it had at the beginning. On the other side, Pakistan has sunk deeper into political, religious and ethnic turmoil, to the extent that its national integrity is being questioned these days. The status quo has helped India, and hurt Pakistan. Do you agree or disagree ?

While Pakistan spent its effort on militarization and indoctrination of its people to wage jihad, India invested in its fundamentals. While Pakistan developed nuclear weapons, India built universities [India has 8900 universities compared to 500 in the entire Islamic world combined]. Do you see what went wrong ?

Now some might argue, that faced with a giant hostile neighbor, Pakistan was compelled to prioritize its military over society and economy. Agreed. But it is also Pakistanis who say that the main bone of contention between the 2 nations is Kashmir. India says that make LOC international border and we will deal with our problem, and Pakistan says no, Kashmir MUST be solved. So it is infact Pakistan that has kept the issue alive. Right or wrong ?

So final question, is supporting the Kashmiri freedom struggle in the interest of Pakistan or not ? Is Kashmir more important than Pakistan ?

 

[Contrarian]

While Pakistan developed nuclear weapons, India built universities [India has 8900 universities compared to 500 in the entire Islamic world combined]. Do you see what went wrong ?

Wow! I did not know that blitz. A GREAT fact mate

 

[blitz]

Yeah, its the largest number in the world, and this is NOT including Private Universities.

 

[Contrarian]

Completely amazing!! And to think i should have known this as im still in college!Repped you up for this dude!