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Achilles heel of Pakistan Army (Gen. Sharif)

How will this help ?

Another group of people / families will take center stage.

Unless national institutions are built & nurtured aberrations will stay the norm.


Hi,

What a silly post----you mean to say---that you just saw 1000 people hanging by their neck for stealing money from the state and one would be so stupid to start it again.

Guy how thoughtless are you comments----it will take 3 to 4 generation a minimum to start over again---if things go lawless completely. You think people are that stupid that they won't learn.

Just to give you this simple example. We just re-started the death penalty-----the murder crime rate from the year 2014 to year 2015 comparison has gone down by 50% actually more than that

An Eye For An Eye does not lead the world to go blind---.
 
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Unless national institutions are built & nurtured aberrations will stay the norm.

EXACTLY to my point. Something that these guys with old school military ideology don't get and want to get. The problem is, there are very few like these left. The top end has gotten their orders from the Army Chief and that is to not interfere with the Civilian government. Something majority of Ex-Pak Military guys are having difficulty swallowing. Phase I is called denial, and then depression and then acceptance and then FACTS!!!

Can't by pass the human psychology!!! So as the denial disappears, thing will start to clean up. Till then, we'll all hear " Pakistan Military is the Best, It's run Pakistan the Best way, it's Won ALL Wars from India, It has safeguarded its country from its OWN citizens who came through the power of People's Vote". And that the military will ALWAYS hold the control. JUST like our general from WWII used to think. But oh boy, how in just 5 years stuff changed!!!! Same will be the case here. Till then, no point in arguing. You can ONLY take a horse to water. You can't make him drink it or the water to flow through his mouth. So the horse will drink water here too, only when it REALLY knows, crap, I am thirsty and there is water all along, RIGHT in front of me!
 
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Hi,

What a silly post----you mean to say---that you just saw 1000 people hanging by their neck for stealing money from the state and one would be so stupid to start it again.

Guy how thoughtless are you comments----it will take 3 to 4 generation a minimum to start over again---if things go lawless completely. You think people are that stupid that they won't learn.

Just to give you this simple example. We just re-started the death penalty-----the murder crime rate from the year 2014 to year 2015 comparison has gone down by 50% actually more than that

An Eye For An Eye does not lead the world to go blind---.

Hmm..

You find my post to be silly while I find your reply to be silly.
 
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@Viper0011.
I am not hateful towards the U S---I am just taking about the screw-ups of the US----actually---needless screw-ups----screw-ups that had no value at all---like the Osama issue.

Same thing with Nawaz----he is just towing the military line---the military has learnt that you don't need to be in power when you can control the power---and why make yourself vulnerable to sanctions----.

This current drama of democracy is a fraud----it is only setup for loot and plunder

There will be no democracy till all the Nawaz family is hung by their necks on the street light poles and all of Zardari's team as well---from Islamabad to Karachi.

So---if Nawaz is so powerful---then why could he not order the army chief to deploy some troops to help in yemen.

1) To be VERY frank with you and I am sorry as it will come across a little edgy, you don't know or understand the US's foreign policy. You guys "claim" to do it, but that is really the inept military ruler blaming this shiit on US in front of a common Pakistani. Nor do you have institutions developed to learn the art of foreign policy. And you guys aren't opening your eyes on top of it, which is worst. Indians did it and today, another Indian became a CEO of.....Google !!! Direct result of a working foreign policy!!! So this strategy and US thing, is beyond Pakistan. Let's stop at that.

2) NS has his own space to play, Gen. Raheel in his own. I know it from their talk and I know it from the corps commanders meetings. The working relationship is great and it'll help Pakistan. You can go with your military's macho-man approach, the same military that was openly discussing we can NEVER win from India in the next war without parity. NS is helping create that parity.

3) The current drama of democracy is REAL and its WORKING. Take a look at the infrastructure growth thread. If you don't want to believe it, its up to you. You'd rather have a fool like IK in power delivering NOTHING but allegations and third class street talk. We'll that would never happen my friend. IK ruling Pakistan will be destruction and people know it.IK has no room to be discussed at this point. He's an amateur kid, when he grows up and shows maturity, I'll discuss him in my discussions with you.

4) If you wan to hang Nawaz family...then Mushy, Kiyani and a few previous COAS's will be hung too, they ALL were corrupt basterds as you suggest? You ok with it? Now including IK as he is doing the same stuff, Family Franchise, Wife using tax payers protocol without having 1% legitimacy and still having a British passport........???? Why ignore ALL thieves of the past 50 years who raped and destroyed Pakistan AND JUST remember NS???? LOL you guys have some SERIOUS ethnic hate with this dude NS it seems like :cheers:. So you ok with majority of previous Generals, NS, IK, Zardari and Mullahs getting hanged??? I'd love to see your input on this. Let's see if your law is for ALL or just the one you hate, i.e. NS.

5) NS would NEVER send troops to Yemen. I told you so, the entire political spectrum said no. If he did that, he'd be destroying ALL the work he has done with Chinese and others. No project would complete and Pakistan will become a hell hole of sectarian violence. The military has nothing to do with this. I can assure you whether you like the answer or not. The Arabs WANTED to make this Pakistan vs. Iran thing, but NS read through it very quickly.
 
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Hmm..

You find my post to be silly while I find your reply to be silly.


Hi,



Then pick up books of history and read---how brutally the british punished their criminals---or the germans or the dutch or the Japanese---or the americans----or the french---just look at their histories of about 100-120 years and past---see what they did with the criminals.

Just see how they established democracy with the ruthless and brutal punishments. Name one of these good Christian lands of democracy---and tell me where the democracy was nurtured in a Lovey dovey manner----.

Pakistan is at the same place in law and order when Americans had the wild wild west---or just before the French revolution or the Britain of 300 years ago----.

So---until and unless the punishments of that era are not enforced upon the public----you do not have a society willing act honest---and a society that is not ready to become honest is a society not ready for democracy---.

Remember:------

Democracy is a gift given by the conscientious rich and the powerful of the society to weak and the poor so that they can be treated as an equal and humane.

Until and unless the rich and the powerful in Pakistan will not change---there will be no democracy---unless---they are executed by the poor and they force the order and rule of law---a pre-cursor to democracy.

1)

4) If you wan to hang Nawaz family...then Mushy, Kiyani and a few previous COAS's will be hung too, they ALL were corrupt basterds as you suggest? You ok with it? Now including IK as he is doing the same stuff, Family Franchise, Wife using tax payers protocol without having 1% legitimacy and still having a British passport........???? Why ignore ALL thieves of the past 50 years who raped and destroyed Pakistan AND JUST remember NS???? LOL you guys have some SERIOUS ethnic hate with this dude NS it seems like :cheers:. So you ok with majority of previous Generals, NS, IK, Zardari and Mullahs getting hanged??? I'd love to see your input on this. Let's see if your law is for ALL or just the one you hate, i.e. NS.

5) NS would NEVER send troops to Yemen. I told you so, the entire political spectrum said no. If he did that, he'd be destroying ALL the work he has done with Chinese and others. No project would complete and Pakistan will become a hell hole of sectarian violence. The military has nothing to do with this. I can assure you whether you like the answer or not. The Arabs WANTED to make this Pakistan vs. Iran thing, but NS read through it very quickly.

Hi,

It is a privilege to have you on the board---and I am grateful for your insight---. You are right---we do not understand the U S at all----. The U S is like leading a child by its hands----that is how we are----. So---the thing is that when you lead the children---you don't let them get astray---because they will hurt themselves.

Truthfully---I would start it with the mullahs---. They are the most disgusting of all. They want to kill in the name of God---but they never stand up for protecting the rights of women and children---. They have done nothing to stop corruption---there is no jihad being fought against crime.

There is something different with Musharraf----. He has always fought for Pakistan---good or bad---he always stood up for pakistan---if it is in an interview---he will defend Pakistan like there is no tomorrow---

Off course nothing is complete with Zardari and co and Kiyani----. Kiyani was the most gutless and coward of the generals that Pakistan ever had in a long time.
 
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Truthfully---I would start it with the mullahs---. They are the most disgusting of all. They want to kill in the name of God---but they never stand up for protecting the rights of women and children---. They have done nothing to stop corruption---there is no jihad being fought against crime.

There is something different with Musharraf----. He has always fought for Pakistan---good or bad---he always stood up for pakistan---if it is in an interview---he will defend Pakistan like there is no tomorrow---

Off course nothing is complete with Zardari and co and Kiyani----. Kiyani was the most gutless and coward of the generals that Pakistan ever had in a long time. My brother told Musharraf not to promote him----that Kiyani has no backbone----I can't translate what Mush told my brother----. The Colt AR 15 that Pres Bush gifted Mushy---Mushy gifted that to my brother.

I like it, Mullah's are fair treatment. They deserve that kind of treatment as they've caused thousands of killings of innocent Pakistanis before anyone else.

I know mushy defends Pakistan on tv.....but the embarrassment caused due to Kargil, the coupe, the lying down on one phone call, the drama with the US to keep strategic depth, while more and more Pakistanis were killed by the terrorists? By not using over $ 10 billion correctly? I can say I defend the US ALL day long, but my actions have to match it too......not giving money from the US to the projects needing it is lie, fraud and dishonesty to the country. Bot he and Kiyani did it and A LOT!!

What's your brother's name? May be I'd know him and he'd know me from some of my meetings with these guys on and off through the history. Was he a 2-3 star General?
 
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Hi,

Truthfully---I would start it with the mullahs---. They are the most disgusting of all. They want to kill in the name of God---but they never stand up for protecting the rights of women and children---. They have done nothing to stop corruption---there is no jihad being fought against crime.

There is something different with Musharraf----. He has always fought for Pakistan---good or bad---he always stood up for pakistan---if it is in an interview---he will defend Pakistan like there is no tomorrow---

Off course nothing is complete with Zardari and co and Kiyani----. Kiyani was the most gutless and coward of the generals that Pakistan ever had in a long time. My brother told Musharraf not to promote him----that Kiyani has no backbone----I can't translate what Mush told my brother----. The Colt AR 15 that Pres Bush gifted Mushy---Mushy gifted that to my brother.

Sir,

Are you aware of SSG commandos, if any, corruption charges? If my memory serve me right, I don recall any.
(unless I have gone senile with old age) .

The commando sure gave a hell of a run to the Kissingers threat. He might have brushed aside few NATO containers ( and passed them to Chinese) But other than that Poor chap never took a paisa from national treasury.

His only mistake-----> forgot to establish rule of law
(should have hanged corrupt Justice, Bibi and Ittefaq economic terrorist, with other Mullahs)

It was 2002-2003 When the commander directed that all Madarassha should be placed under govt supervision, but the naive nation and cunning mullah painted it as another American juice agent conspiracy against Islam, and after 13 or so years later we realize that how necessary it was back then ( took about few thousand lives to understand).

Nor I recall any brutal massacre ( lahore incident) or massive scandal ( Kasur) in his tenure.

His only mistake, He opposed the status quo, went against the flow ( corrupt system and rule which favours powerful ).

Those decision taken back then have shown how justified and right they were.

Operation against brutal economic terrorist Bugti.

Operation against Lal Masjid devils.

The whole twilight saga against men-in-court (retired and most privileged justice in the history of Pak)

and the list can continue to go on.

As you mentioned we as a nation are not yet ready to follow western style democracy yet, Where half of the population is illiterate and can be easily bought with looted money from corrupted economic terrorists, where making a single road or anyother thing for that matter is taken as a standard for governance.

Surely, our standards of govt are so cheap, that we can easily be bought by installing few lamppost across the road.
 
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I like it, Mullah's are fair treatment. They deserve that kind of treatment as they've caused thousands of killings of innocent Pakistanis before anyone else.

I know mushy defends Pakistan on tv.....but the embarrassment caused due to Kargil, the coupe, the lying down on one phone call, the drama with the US to keep strategic depth, while more and more Pakistanis were killed by the terrorists? By not using over $ 10 billion correctly? I can say I defend the US ALL day long, but my actions have to match it too......not giving money from the US to the projects needing it is lie, fraud and dishonesty to the country. Bot he and Kiyani did it and A LOT!!

What's your brother's name? May be I'd know him and he'd know me from some of my meetings with these guys on and off through the history. Was he a 2-3 star General?


Hi,

At kargil---he proved a point---pak military at its weakest did something that was un-expected---.

As for the fund and terrorists---the U S has an equal blame---it started the war without any troops on the ground---corralled them from the north by bombings and pushed them all into Pakistan.

One " Phone call " is all Ghengis Khan made to the governor of Otrar---and the Shah of Khwarzim----we all know hat happened to the kingdom of Islam after the call was rejected.

That was the perfect decision by Mushy---could not have done it any better for Pakistan----Pakistan got the goose that lay the golden egg----Pakistani public killed the goose to get all the eggs that were hidden in the stomach at the same time

It was not Mushy that failed---it was the Pakistani public that failed in supporting him---. For the Pakistanis---the terrorists were their Islamic brothers---it took the Pakistanis 14 years to realize that they were murderers when the school children got killed.

The U S also failed in this war---it failed in media campaign---from day one---there should have been a media war against the terror groups----a massive relentless campaign.

The U S screwed up because it depended on its smart bombs and smart delivery systems and no troops on the ground.

The U S failed because it went after the Taliban---who had nothing to do with 9 / 1---they let the al Qaeda escape.

Pakistani media failed the Pakistani public----they were busy discussing who did the 9 / 11 ---U S did the 9 / 11 ----Israelis did 9 / 11----no sane person in power stood up and said---what difference does it make who did 9 / 11---Pakistan is not being blamed for 9 / 11----we needed to focus on stopping the terrorists.

It was the same Nawaz Shareef and his cohorts saying Mushy went down on one threat----.

10 Billion is nothing----Pakistan's blunder was in bad negotiation----they should have agreed with the U S for 110% support---but should have asked of at least 10 billion dollars up front good faith money---and every year up front expense for supporting the U S troops + an extra billion----. Pakistan has suffered a loss of 100 billion dollars over all these years---and this drama that the U S has created over the billion dollars aid is a fraud.

If the U S had given Pakistan 1 / 1oth t gave to afghan warlords and Karzai---Pakistan would have taken care of this issue a long time ago.----bad investment by the U S.

That is how you deal with a country who put sanctions on you----. Generals should never make car deals---they are bad negotiators.

Sir,

Are you aware of SSG commandos, if any, corruption charges? If my memory serve me right, I don recall any.
(unless I have gone senile with old age) .

The commando sure have a hell of a run to the Kissingers threat. He might have brushed aside few NATO containers ( and passed them to Chinese) But other than that Poor chap never took a paisa from national treasury.

His only mistake-----> forgot to establish rule of law
(should have hanged corrupt Justice, Bibi and Ittefaq economic terrorist, with other Mullahs)

It was 2002-2003 When the commander directed that all Madarassha should be placed under govt supervision, but the naive nation and cunning mullah painted it as another American juice agent conspiracy against Islam, and after 13 or so years later we realize that how necessary it was back then ( took about few thousand lives to understand).

Nor I recall any brutal massacre ( lahore incident) or massive scandal ( Kasur) in his tenure.

His only mistake, He opposed the status quo, went against the flow ( corrupt system and rule which favours powerful ).

Those decision taken back then have shown how justified and right they were.

Operation against brutal economic terrorist Bugti.

Operation against Lal Masjid devils.

The whole twilight saga against men-in-court (retired and most privileged justice in the history of Pak)

and the list can continue to go on.

As you mentioned we as a nation are not yet ready to follow western style democracy yet, Where half of the population is illiterate and can be easily bought with looted money from corrupted economic terrorists, where making a single road or anyother thing for that matter is taken as a standard for governance.

Surely, our standards of govt are so cheap, that we can easily be bought by installing few lamppost across the road.

Hi,

that is what his real problem was---could not punish the criminals.
 
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Graft has not been highlighted in the assessment. Perhaps graft is Pakistan's biggest problem, and encompasses the high and the low.
 
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Pakistan needs the rule of Law. All it needs to do is enforce the law in a manner where no one including the army is above the law. It will sort out most of the political issues. By separating the judiciary from the shackles of the government and making it a fifth arm and assigning the police under it will sort out some of the issues.
Religious extremism is a problem. However the only way to deal with it is by being educated in the principles of Islam and what it teaches us. "Stick to the Quran and Sunnah and you shall not go wrong" keeps wringing in my mind. But looking at it from a really secular point of view, if by law only the judiciary was entitled to issue a fatwa and no two bit Mullah could stand on the corner of a street and issue a fatwa would take the wind from this sail once and for all. However one needs to be brutally honest in this endeavour. If you go about with it in the usual "Pakistani juggar" way it will come back to haunt you.
In order to gain respect the army itself needs to show honesty and professionalism. It needs to be honest in dealing with the corrupt from within its own ranks. If the army is window dressing then you will surely have the trend continuing in other fields of life.
The other aspect to all of this frustration is the lack of economic uplifting of the country as a whole. We need to work on projects of national importance like electricity,water, health transportation and production to provide jobs to the jobless and create economic uplift zones around every city to provide jobs for the needy. In a country where44% of the population is young we need to provide jobs to the masses so that we can use their energies for the uplift of the country rather than for destruction.
All of this requires good administration and honesty which as a national characteristic is patently absent in Pakistan. Even education has not helped here since most Waderas are educated but the environment has created tyrants out of them. For the moment what we can hope for is another 2-3 decades of this corruption without interruption so that the old guard die out and the newer inductees into the polity are a little bit more honest.
Araz

Hi,

At kargil---he proved a point---pak military at its weakest did something that was un-expected---.

As for the fund and terrorists---the U S has an equal blame---it started the war without any troops on the ground---corralled them from the north by bombings and pushed them all into Pakistan.

One " Phone call " is all Ghengis Khan made to the governor of Otrar---and the Shah of Khwarzim----we all know hat happened to the kingdom of Islam after the call was rejected.

That was the perfect decision by Mushy---could not have done it any better for Pakistan----Pakistan got the goose that lay the golden egg----Pakistani public killed the goose to get all the eggs that were hidden in the stomach at the same time

It was not Mushy that failed---it was the Pakistani public that failed in supporting him---. For the Pakistanis---the terrorists were their Islamic brothers---it took the Pakistanis 14 years to realize that they were murderers when the school children got killed.

The U S also failed in this war---it failed in media campaign---from day one---there should have been a media war against the terror groups----a massive relentless campaign.

The U S screwed up because it depended on its smart bombs and smart delivery systems and no troops on the ground.

The U S failed because it went after the Taliban---who had nothing to do with 9 / 1---they let the al Qaeda escape.

Pakistani media failed the Pakistani public----they were busy discussing who did the 9 / 11 ---U S did the 9 / 11 ----Israelis did 9 / 11----no sane person in power stood up and said---what difference does it make who did 9 / 11---Pakistan is not being blamed for 9 / 11----we needed to focus on stopping the terrorists.

It was the same Nawaz Shareef and his cohorts saying Mushy went down on one threat----.

10 Billion is nothing----Pakistan's blunder was in bad negotiation----they should have agreed with the U S for 110% support---but should have asked of at least 10 billion dollars up front good faith money---and every year up front expense for supporting the U S troops + an extra billion----. Pakistan has suffered a loss of 100 billion dollars over all these years---and this drama that the U S has created over the billion dollars aid is a fraud.

If the U S had given Pakistan 1 / 1oth t gave to afghan warlords and Karzai---Pakistan would have taken care of this issue a long time ago.----bad investment by the U S.

That is how you deal with a country who put sanctions on you----. Generals should never make car deals---they are bad negotiators.



Hi,

that is what his real problem was---could not punish the criminals.
A cracker set off amongst the herd of cows!!! Sir you have my respect. I could argue with you over small print but in general you have hit it on the head. The fact is we presented our own head ion a platter for the US to spit on. If we had some guts and played it a bit more correctly we could have walked off with a lot more than all the anguish that we got. Procrastination over the terrorist issue was also our downfall. We should probably have bashed them hard after a solid assurance from the US of covering the Afghan side and then whether the Naswar wanted it or not barbed and mined the Border to not allow any fucker back in. We did not do so thinking of pennies when we could have saved pounds in peace within our country.
Araz
 
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Purpose of this essay is to identify grave threats to Pakistan army and Gen. Sharif, and hopefully start a debate as to how to address and neutralize these. Please note! These threats are a mix of religious, political, social, and geographical. And NO! we cannot solve these just be threatening them or nuking them. They all need distinct solutions tailored very specifically and delivered in very carefully optimized dosage. So here is the summary list:
1. Threats from Pakistani politicians
--- a. Altaf Hussain (MQM)
--- b. Asif Zardari (PPP)
--- c. Imran Khan (PTI)
--- d. Nawaz Sharif (PMLN)
2. Threats from bad economy
3. Threats from religious extremism
4. External threats.


Achilles heel of Pakistan Army (Gen. Sharif)
We in Pakistan are all excited and overjoyed (for the right reasons) about the triumphs and successes of our army and in particular Gen. Sharif. May God bless him with good health and long life. Amen.

Gen. Sharif's (and Pakistan army’s) lightening attack on the Talib-astard TTP has resulted in almost 100% route of gangs from Waziristan. Few pockets do remain hidden in the thick forests and steep mountains close to Pak-Af border. But the unchallenged reign of terror by the Islamists gangs has ended rather quickly.

Such a grand success was unparalleled in the region which generally known as "graveyard of empires" or more precisely "graveyard of invading armies".

Such successes would not have been possible without modern methods of warfighting and modern weapons that support the army. Primarily such weapons provide air support nay air superiority and include F-16, Cobra gunships, and transport helicopters of various kinds.

On the ground, US provided some excellent mine resistant troop carriers that have allowed Pakistan army to go in areas where no militaries have gone before at least not in large numbers.

Pakistanis while praising Pak army and Gen. Sharif must figure out the weaknesses of Pakistan army and by extension Gen. Sharif.

1. Threats from Four politicians (political parties) of Pakistan
Yes, my friends, if Pak army makes mistakes (like in the past), 4 politicians as a group or even individuals could do serious damage to Pakistan army if not (God forbid) bring it down to its knees. All of these politicians have had access to Pakistan Army's inner most secrets one time or the other. And such secrets are now being used to threaten and blackmail Pakistan army.

1A - Altaf Hussain
First on this black list, is none other than the Mafioso superemo head of Mohajir (Muttahida) nationalist movement. General Musharraf in his mad plans of destroying two main political parties of his time: PLMN and PPP made foolish deals with many smaller parties including MQM. While these parties provided much needed political support to Gen Retd Musharraf, they extracted from him very heavy price in return. MQM got free hand to attack, harass and then kill many law enforcement officers posted in Urban Sindh. This obviously is well known. What MQM did during the same time is acquire knowledge of Pakistan army's inner working by using few generals sympathetic to MQM cause. As a result, such secrets were either have been kept with MQM or portions have been revealed to Bharati intelligence. By mixing MQM's ground support and the secret knowledge, Altaf Hussain can do serious damage to Pakistan army. So when he makes threats, we must not ignore him.

1B - Asif Zardari
Even though AZ's party has been in the dog house for most of its existence. However PPP learned its lessons and started cozying up to Pakistan army during the last 20 years or so. Such a long period is enough to acquire loyalty of few retired officers and get access to inner working of Pakistan army. Asif Zardari and his minions like Hussain Haqqani have now acquired enormous clout and wealth within and outside Pakistan. And when he made that madman speech recently and said he can destroy Pakistan army (eent say eent baja dain-gay), and shut down Pakistan, he was NOT kidding. He was damned serious. And believe you me, he has put the wheels in motion and he is working on his plans. In some ways he is as munch dangerous to Pakistan army as Altaf Hussain if not more. He can use his secret knowledge of Pakistan army to humiliate Gen. Sharif and bring about the wrath of international condemnation and action against Pakistan army. I suspect he has already done something similar but didn't get enough traction through memo-gate and Bin laden type raids.

Recent leakage of secrets about Afghan Taliban's weaknesses could have been done by few who are close to Asif Zardari (possible people may include Rahman, and Haqqani).

1C - Imran Khan
Yes, Immmi Khan is immature. Yes he has a lot of appeal among youngsters, yes he set up hospitals. Yes he has an ambitious and good looking second wife.

But the biggest danger from Immi Khan comes from his deeply held belief that TTP are good guys and we should negotiate with them. Such views have been expressed by him even in July 2015. We should not consider these things as mere rants of childish bonga man. No! Immie Khan means business. He will and he is supporting TTP elements even at this stage. No! Not the dreaded supremo Fazlullah but many elements of TTP that are still hiding in various parts of KP-K province where Immie Khan controls the civilian admn and law enforcement agencies.

If you couple such secret deals between TTP and Immi khan, with his political force strong enough to destabilize Pakistan, you will know that he can do serious damage to Gen. Sharif. Recent leakage of secrets about Afghan Taliban could have been done by few who are close to Immie Khan. Possible people may include Shirin Mazari.

1D - Nawaz Sharif
Last but not least, Nawaz Sharif being a Punjabi, means that he has sympathies and direct familial relationship with many top generals. He has been toppled twice in the past Once indirectly by Pak army and once directly by General retd Musharraf. He still carries all those wounds in his heart and in his soul. Yes he has covered such things with a diplomatic cover but his nightmares about Pakistan army are very real. If you couple these with the fact that his close associates like Khawaja Asif and even Pervaiz Rasheed have had been tortured during the past military rules, you got a group of top politicians around Nawaz who will not waste time expressing their deep seeded hatred against Pakistan army in their words and in their actions. So far Nawaz Sharif enjoys a finely balanced relationship with Gen. Sharif. But the situation resulting from Immi Khan's dharna may have added more to his past nightmares.

If push comes to shove, and threatened by NAB etc., Nawaz may not want to be kicked out to Saudi this time. So he will stay in Pakistan like a cornered cat and may do some serious damage to Pakistan army and by extension Gen. Sharif.


2. Pakistan economy
Economy is the Achilles heel of any army and yes Pakistan army too. Our defense budget is tiny tiny tiny compared to the budgets (in relative terms) of our immediate AND hostile neighbor(s). This has put serious strain on Pakistan army. Just providing food and fuel, ammo and parts for operations carried out daily means literally burning precious dollars from the meager reserves held in state bank (and other banks).

Yes many on PDF will jump with joys everytime there is news of Pakistan army acquiring weapon system X or weapon system Y. But remember this! All such acquisitions are made using hard earned dollars (and IMF/WB loan dollars).

Yes we do not have printing presses in the basement that will give us an internationally accepted currency. So we have to beg and borrow money to buy few helicopters here, and few guns there.

Unless Pakistanis settle down as a nation and support Pakistan army with their hands and feet (and not just mouths), and earn dollars through tourism, and industry, we cannot go much longer with current amount of dollar reserve.

3. Religion extremism within army ranks
This fortunately is on the decline as fewer and fewer officers are supporting overtly Islamist symbols like beards etc. But it has come at very very heavy price for Pakistani army and Pakistan. Gen. Ziaul Haq’s planted little sapling of Islamism back in late 1970s. By 1980s and 90s it became a tall dastardly tree whole prickly thorns penetrated deep into Pakistani state institutions including army.

How else it became possible for the Islamists to enter and then attack extremely sensitive installations and offices without any resistance at all. Our AWACS, and our P-3s and even our GHQ wasn’t safe from Islamists. Islamists gangsters walked into these sensitive areas as if they were walking into Anarkali Lahore or Sadar bazar Karachi. That is no one was there to stop them. None at all.

These Islamists bombed our police academies, or FIA centers with no one stopping them. None of our “top of the world” intel agencies could stop them. This was only possible because our intel agencies themselves had been infected with extremist elements all in the name of Islamism.

After the APS attack, many among our security establishment finally woke up to the dastardly effects of Islamist extremism. But a year later, some of the things are still in favor of Islamist.

Lal Masjid burqaposh Mullah is still busy threatening everyone and anyone. Islamist like the one who murdered Punjab governor is still enjoying royal treatement and cell phone access even within the max security prison.

So many Taliban extremists and other Islamists have been pardoned by our courts and saved by their sympathizers within the security establishment. Thus Islamist extremism remains potent threat and in some ways Achilles heel for Pak army and thus by extension Gen. Sharif.

4. External threats.
I'll not write much about this. We all know we have enemies within Bharati gov planners. We all know there are remnants within Afghanistani security establishment that would love to burn down their OWN country so long as Pakistan army suffers. We all know Iranian Ayatollahs will never forget their failure to "Shia-ize Pakistan" since 1979. And instead Pakistani has become hotbed of anti-Shia forces since 1980s.

Hatred based on Shia Sunni divide is strong among Iranian Mullahs, that they can potentially do everything possible to bring down Pakistan army and by extension Gen. Sharif.


So my friends, now we know what the weaknesses of Pakistani army are, how do we address them?

Think, think, and think, as a Pakistan first. No, we don't need more religion, and more ethnic chauvinism. These are always counterproductive.

Rather we must support ways that Pakistan army can win at home, but more importantly Pakistan army could become a stabilizing force outside Pakistan all the way from Afghanistan to Iran to Syria. Where gangs like Daesh and Qaida must be crushed and peace be brought to humanity.

This is the only way forward, to earn good will of international citizenry and thus help us improve tourism and trade within Pakistan.

We must shame our politicians (listed above) everytime they do and say anything stupid against Pakistan army, and by extension Gen. Sharif. This is the way to save our beautiful country.

Let's join hands and be positive and be brave.

Amen

@Atanz, @Gufi, @Slav Defence, @Luftwaffe, @WebMaster, @Jungibaaz, @jaibi, @notsuperstitious, @Azlan Haider,
@ajpirzada, @DESERT FIGHTER, @AgNoStiC MuSliM, @Jazzbot, @Jf Thunder, @Hyperion, @JonAsad, @Nihonjin1051, @cirr,
@Cherokee, @Genesis, @Bamxa, @SarthakGanguly, @Cat Shannon, @Butchcassidy, @Norwegian, @Mr.UTurn, @GreenFalcon,
@Syed.Ali.Haider, @KURUMAYA, @Gazi, @Patriots, @karachiite_pacifist,@Super Falcon, @macnurv


In the decades following world war II, a sense of world community seemed on the verge of arisings. The industrially advance regions of the world were exhausted from war; the underdeveloped parts were beginning their
Process of decolonisation and redefining their identities. All needed cooperation rather than confrontation.
And the United States, preserved from the ravages of war........indeed, strengthened by the conflict in its economy and national confidence .........Launched itself on implementing ideals and practices it considered applicable to the entire world.
And it was beginning of new world order.
Moral of the story
1. After confrontation you need cooperation for peace.
2. Shared values and goals render conditions more humane and conflicts less likely.
How it applicable for civil military relationship in Pakistan?
There are shared values between all citizens of the country such as rule of law, democracy, Justice and we need corruption free society. We need functional Judicial system. And for these shared values and goals we can cooperate with eachother. Gen Raheel is successful because our elements of national power are cooperating for shared values and goals. He is a leader. We only need leaders may it be political or military.
What are the challenges for leader.
1. Judicial Reforms. Free, fair and powerful judiciary.
2. System for monitoring economic terrorism. May it be NAB.
3. Punishments for all mega and micro corruption cases through judiciary.
4. Election Reforms. Free and fair elections.
 
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Hi,

At kargil---he proved a point---pak military at its weakest did something that was un-expected---.

As for the fund and terrorists---the U S has an equal blame---it started the war without any troops on the ground---corralled them from the north by bombings and pushed them all into Pakistan.

One " Phone call " is all Ghengis Khan made to the governor of Otrar---and the Shah of Khwarzim----we all know hat happened to the kingdom of Islam after the call was rejected.

That was the perfect decision by Mushy---could not have done it any better for Pakistan----Pakistan got the goose that lay the golden egg----Pakistani public killed the goose to get all the eggs that were hidden in the stomach at the same time

It was not Mushy that failed---it was the Pakistani public that failed in supporting him---. For the Pakistanis---the terrorists were their Islamic brothers---it took the Pakistanis 14 years to realize that they were murderers when the school children got killed.

The U S also failed in this war---it failed in media campaign---from day one---there should have been a media war against the terror groups----a massive relentless campaign.

The U S screwed up because it depended on its smart bombs and smart delivery systems and no troops on the ground.

The U S failed because it went after the Taliban---who had nothing to do with 9 / 1---they let the al Qaeda escape.

Pakistani media failed the Pakistani public----they were busy discussing who did the 9 / 11 ---U S did the 9 / 11 ----Israelis did 9 / 11----no sane person in power stood up and said---what difference does it make who did 9 / 11---Pakistan is not being blamed for 9 / 11----we needed to focus on stopping the terrorists.

It was the same Nawaz Shareef and his cohorts saying Mushy went down on one threat----.

10 Billion is nothing----Pakistan's blunder was in bad negotiation----they should have agreed with the U S for 110% support---but should have asked of at least 10 billion dollars up front good faith money---and every year up front expense for supporting the U S troops + an extra billion----. Pakistan has suffered a loss of 100 billion dollars over all these years---and this drama that the U S has created over the billion dollars aid is a fraud.

If the U S had given Pakistan 1 / 1oth t gave to afghan warlords and Karzai---Pakistan would have taken care of this issue a long time ago.----bad investment by the U S.

That is how you deal with a country who put sanctions on you----. Generals should never make car deals---they are bad negotiators.



Hi,

that is what his real problem was---could not punish the criminals.
@syedali73
 
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Hi,

How much time did you spend in Pakistan ?
The tax net ahh yes, the economic terrosim by current ruling govt.

When NS left govt in 98 the current account had 300 mm dollar and when he left it was around 15 bn dollar.

The oath the constitution is of nomuse when it gives immunity To people like zaradri from swiss case.

The current nab is under direct control of NS.

WHEN his royal Highness joins the gobt , he make sures that all of his sons and daughter too join the ministries and govt, I dont remember SSG commando s son name. Hell even the retired justice son was involved in corruption at grand sccale , which is why henwasngoing to get baloch ministry or something like that, can't Seem to recall it

All the articles i have read beg to differ with your economic terrorism statement. Pakistan economy is improving, with CPEC coming online and electricty shortage coming under control , IA it will continue to grow.

Zardari committed corruption and should be punished so should be Musharaf and if and if any corruption cases are brought forward on Nawaz, he should be dealt with according to the law. My point was that under a military dictator nothing changed and he had absolute power, he didn't bother imposing rule of law nor tried to improve Pakistans infrastructure. Why does he get a pass like he was a saint. Every institution has its duty to the People of Pakistan and they should be held accountable if they fail to do so and it should not be by the threat of a coup or blind support of Generals. Our institutions are not perfect and that should be our main goal as a nation to make them stronger. Example is right in front of our eyes, how PPP suffered defeat in the last elections, people of Pakistan kicked them out, not generals. Our institutions are filled with people who are working towards their own goals and bank accounts. We solve this by kicking them out , not by derailing the entire institution.

Stating a figure without any context is pointless, when the war on terror started, USA was giving Pakistan huge sum of aid, our economy was artificially inflated. If you are gonna argue Musharaf was not involved in corruption then its pointless debating this any further. The head of ruling party which were in power under Musharaf are from my native city and the corruption they did is not a secret. There are over 200 million Pakistanis and not all of them have to like Nawaz, but we should all support democracy. Every 5 year we have a right to chose who leads us. No one should have absolute power no matter which institution the person comes from.
 
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All the articles i have read beg to differ with your economic terrorism statement. Pakistan economy is improving, with CPEC coming online and electricty shortage coming under control , IA it will continue to grow.

Zardari committed corruption and should be punished so should be Musharaf and if and if any corruption cases are brought forward on Nawaz, he should be dealt with according to the law. My point was that under a military dictator nothing changed and he had absolute power, he didn't bother imposing rule of law nor tried to improve Pakistans infrastructure. Why does he get a pass like he was a saint. Every institution has its duty to the People of Pakistan and they should be held accountable if they fail to do so and it should not be by the threat of a coup or blind support of Generals. Our institutions are not perfect and that should be our main goal as a nation to make them stronger. Example is right in front of our eyes, how PPP suffered defeat in the last elections, people of Pakistan kicked them out, not generals. Our institutions are filled with people who are working towards their own goals and bank accounts. We solve this by kicking them out , not by derailing the entire institution.

Stating a figure without any context is pointless, when the war on terror started, USA was giving Pakistan huge sum of aid, our economy was artificially inflated. If you are gonna argue Musharaf was not involved in corruption then its pointless debating this any further. The head of ruling party which were in power under Musharaf are from my native city and the corruption they did is not a secret. There are over 200 million Pakistanis and not all of them have to like Nawaz, but we should all support democracy. Every 5 year we have a right to chose who leads us. No one should have absolute power no matter which institution the person comes from.
Hi,

No one has talked about martial law here! Please clear your air

Please I haven't seen any case against Musharraf for corruption

Reading blogs and articles is very different from actually living there physically !

Sure, lets begin with NAb and judiciary and then lets move further down the road to feudal system .

Please have a look at the statment of current ruling PM ( even though the video was in 2009) Shows the mentality.

The threat of stick should always be there if people like him are not working properly and are only interested in using their own ittefaq industries for projects
 
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The threat should not come from the military violating their own oath. Two wrong don't make a right, everyone should be held accountable but no on the expense of dragging Pakistan backwards again.This is refereeing to your threat of stick reference. You seriously believe Musharraf did not commit any corruption during his tenure? even for a second if I believe it, he was the head of the state, with supreme authority , any corruption under him was his responsibility. I said it before as well, these politicians are not saints, but they were voted by the people of Pakistan and only people of Pakistan have the right to remove them after their 5 years are completed. Just like you said, no corruption was proven against Musharraf, so far i have not read any article stating corruption against Nawaz but do I think he all of a sudden became a pious man and hasn't done any wrong doing? HELL NO!!!

Feudal system won't change over night. You need the right people for the job and it takes time. System needs time to mature and only then change can come, over night change only brings chaos and we can not afford that. Mind set needs to be changed and if you think by removing these politicians we will get individuals who have totally different mind set then you are mistaken. I don't support any political party, i support anyone who is doing anything for Pakistan and I really believe by letting the system mature we will only get better. Ask yourself or any other Pakistani, are things better now then they were under PPP?
 
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