Abu Hamza silent on ISI role in Mumbai attacks

[ajtr]

Too clever by half.

That is why you are in the wretched state you are in. And growing more wretched as we speak.

Anyway, I have no time for self loathing treacherous beings. They are at best a nuisance and have only one fate.

And still you cared to reply.....

Though I won't mind some of them treated the way Jahangir treated his son Khusrau and his companions. Just to set an example for the rest of what treason means.

Alas history of India would have been different had Khusrau(the wretched traitor ,according to ur silly logic) sat on the throne instead of Jahangir and Guru Arjan Dev ji would not have got martyred.but then you and your clever by half logic none can beat it not even the God.

 

[trinity]

To all the INDIAN posters why do you even bother explaining the events that have taken place. YOu are wasting your time. India's leaders need to stop having delusions of peace. Peace can only be achieved when both parties want it. However, like the Israelis, india can force peace by going down a different path. Time to reconsider our present engagement and consider all options.

 

[Jehanzeb-akhtar]

To all the INDIAN posters why do you even bother explaining the events that have taken place. YOu are wasting your time. India's leaders need to stop having delusions of peace. Peace can only be achieved when both parties want it. However, like the Israelis, india can force peace by going down a different path. Time to reconsider our present engagement and consider all options.

Why don't you try the Israelis way? I dont think you have the balls to do it
Israelis have so many nations supporting them unconditionally . You dont have that advantage . Stop being so arrogant you are not a super power yet

 

[notorious_eagle]

Appearance is not always reality.

That the world is independently coming to the same conclusions should tell you something.

It is based on experiences of Afghanistan, Taliban support, London bombings, NY, Germany...

The list goes on.

The average Indian has little time to even think of Pakistan let alone hate it. We are mercifully not all graduates of curriculum of hate. Just stop terrorists coming in from your side and we are ready for anything from cold wary peace to warm friendship.

I hope one day you realize that dismissing everything as paranoia and hate of others may be the easy way out and may appeal and may even look the patriotic thing to do.

But it may not be the right and patriotic thing at all.

I agree. The average Indian does not has any time to even think about Pakistan, that is why you are here on this forum trying your level best to spread your propaganda and flawed logic not backed up by any evidence . The prosecutor has to prove without a reasonable doubt that the defendant engaged in criminal act, India is more than welcome to take her case to ICJ and present her case infront of an independent judiciary. Mere accusations don't make your B.S into facts.

To all the INDIAN posters why do you even bother explaining the events that have taken place. YOu are wasting your time. India's leaders need to stop having delusions of peace. Peace can only be achieved when both parties want it. However, like the Israelis, india can force peace by going down a different path. Time to reconsider our present engagement and consider all options.

Neither are you Israel and neither Pakistan is Palestine.

 

[Adnan Faruqi]

Abu Hamza silent on ISI role in Mumbai attacks​

By Aditi Phadnis
Published: July 3, 2012


NEW DELHI:
The arrest of the mastermind behind the Mumbai attacks, Zabiuddin Ansari alias Abu Hamza alias Abu Jundal, has sparked tensions between India’s Intelligence Bureau (IB) and Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) over the question of who coordinates his arrest.

The electrician who went on to become one of the most wanted terrorists in India was arrested at the Indira Gandhi International Airport – according to senior officials, the entire operation to track down Hamza was coordinated by the IB. Officials also say that Hamza arrived on a commercial flight and not on a special flight arranged by RAW.

Meanwhile, the IB has gotten to work on extracting as much information from the terrorist as possible on his role in the Laskhar-e-Taiba (LeT) network and the alleged involvement of Pakistani state actors in the 2008 Mumbai attacks, in which 166 people were killed.

Investigators have elaborated that though Hamza has admitted that he had a role in the Mumbai attacks and acknowledged that he was constantly talking to terrorists during the attack, he has not volunteered information about the involvement of Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI).

“We have matched his voice sample from the recorded conversation during the Mumbai attack. Although he is talking about his role in giving Hindi lessons to terrorists and also identifying places in Mumbai, he is not ready to give information about the involvement of ISI in the attack,” said a senior officer. Investigators are also finding it difficult to get information on LeT sleeper cells present in India.

Senior officials elaborated that Ansari was a hardened terrorist whose main job was to identify and indoctrinate recruits.

Ansari also told investigators that he was initially given the code name Abu Hamza and it was later changed to Abu Jundal in 2008, because his LeT handlers didn’t want him to be identified during the investigations into the Mumbai attacks.

During the course of interrogation, Hamza also identified the people whose voice was recorded by intelligence agencies during the attack. Hamza told the investigators that around 8-10 people were present in a safe house in Karachi, which acted like a control room during the attack.

The wanted terrorist has also confessed that not all the ‘handlers’ were present at the control room at the same time.

Investigators believe that the terrorist mastermind joined the banned Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI) at the behest of a school senior after the 2002 riots in Gujarat. After completing the initial process of indoctrination, Hamza was sent to Kashmir for training in small arms.

Intelligence agencies had first found Hamza to be involved in suspicious activities during the investigation into an attack on the Indian Institute of Science (IISC) in 2005. Even though Hamza managed to avoid getting arrested, his name came up again when Mumbai police recovered weapons from Aurangabad in 2006.

Senior officials said that Ansari has also confessed to helping LeT recruits plant seven bombs in Mumbai in July 2007, which was the first major coordination between LeT and the Indian Mujahideen (IM).

Even though Ansari was wanted by several police organisations, he has managed to enter India twice between 2006 and 2007 through Bangladesh and Nepal.

Ajmal Kasab, also accused in the Mumbai attacks, had identified Hamza’s voice earlier in recorded conversations for investigators. Kasab told the investigators that Hamza was closely involved in the training. Hamza also taught Hindi to the 10 Pakistani nationals involved in the Mumbai attacks. The two Hindi classes took place just days before the attack. Hamza is a resident of Beed, in Maharashtra state.

Published in The Express Tribune, July 3rd, 2012.

Abu Hamza silent on ISI role in Mumbai attacks – The Express Tribune

=============

So what happened to the earlier stories of 'Nailed ISI involvement in Mumbai Attacks'?

A whole bunch of lies by the Indian media?

Bunch of lies???? really?????????

Do u want us to believe a pakistani media when u are not ready to believe Indian media??????????

And do u really believe something publish by a credible and reputed newspaper like Express tribune?

This pakistani newspaper is famous for pak army link and in the past it have published fake wiki leaks about Indian army

And was forced to apologize for publishing fake BS.

 

[happycanuck]

To all the INDIAN posters why do you even bother explaining the events that have taken place. YOu are wasting your time. India's leaders need to stop having delusions of peace. Peace can only be achieved when both parties want it. However, like the Israelis, india can force peace by going down a different path. Time to reconsider our present engagement and consider all options.

In my mind, I have had this option since the Kargil War. It is about time to move ahead and prepare the blue print of that plan in our brains. India should disregard the objections of any third party.

 

[Vinod2070]

I agree. The average Indian does not has any time to even think about Pakistan, that is why you are here on this forum trying your level best to spread your propaganda and flawed logic not backed up by any evidence . The prosecutor has to prove without a reasonable doubt that the defendant engaged in criminal act, India is more than welcome to take her case to ICJ and present her case infront of an independent judiciary. Mere accusations don't make your B.S into facts.

That is all you got?

A couple of 10s active Indians on this forum out of an internet population of 100 million, discussing stuff here because India is always the major point of discussion here!

We don't care about the % of Sindhis in PA for example.

And you are right. We already know you won't do anything unless dragged kicking and screaming.

In fact you just can't. Many of your terrorists have turned back on you and we can all see your helplessness and flailing. Any other rational country would have realized the folly of its ways and made the changes needed. You are just incapable of changing course. Morbidly afraid of the unknown.

Anyway, it has to end one way or the other. If you won't do it, someone else will do it for you. Drone attacks are just one example of someone else doing the housekeeping for you guys. OBL was another. 1971 yet another.

Neither are you Israel and neither Pakistan is Palestine.

This dialogue has gone stale. Pakistan did get divided once in the aftermath of a genocide on its own people. Continuing with terror may result in a worse fate.

 

[seekers]

sorry! i have not read all posts on this thread.
My question is with DPC comprising of lashkar taiba and other banned outfit
why don't they agitate against their GOD FATHER Saudi govt, who has been hand over this guy to Indian govt???.
Do they acts same if this guy has been passed by Pakistan govt??
DPC should change their name with :" Double standard policy council"

 

[Nishan_101]

Now many foreigners thinks that Pakistan is super weak and it cannot do anything against any aggression from outside.

So what INDIANs think???

 

[notorious_eagle]

That is all you got?

Not at all, i was not personally attacking you. I was merely pointing out your hypocritical stance which were contrary to your actions.

A couple of 10s active Indians on this forum out of an internet population of 100 million, discussing stuff here because India is always the major point of discussion here!

You want to know a funny statistic, there are more Indians here on PDF than Pakistani members. How many Pakistani members are exactly on BR? Probably none, even if there are some whom exist they will make the minimum numbers. Thus, if Pakistan is such a non topic in India, how come Indians are crowded out on PDF. It certainly makes you ponder, the actions are contrary to your words.

And you are right. We already know you won't do anything unless dragged kicking and screaming.

When dealing with a neighbour like India, we certainly have to harden our stance.

In fact you just can't. Many of your terrorists have turned back on you and we can all see your helplessness and flailing. Any other rational country would have realized the folly of its ways and made the changes needed. You are just incapable of changing course. Morbidly afraid of the unknown.

We are and trying our utmost best to root out this menace. This is why we have suffered the most casualties and sacrificed the most for this WOT. On a side note the terrorists are not ours, they used to be supported by the world excluding ex communist countries to take down the Soviet Union. Pakistan's curse is that it has to share a long porous border with Afghanistan and her leader's did not have vision to forecast this problem in the 90's.

Anyway, it has to end one way or the other. If you won't do it, someone else will do it for you. Drone attacks are just one example of someone else doing the housekeeping for you guys. OBL was another. 1971 yet another.

1971 is by no means related to drones or OBL. It was just India cashing in on the opportunity to dismember Pakistan, after all Indian leaders have always held the most sinister of designs against Pakistan.

This dialogue has gone stale. Pakistan did get divided once in the aftermath of a genocide on its own people. Continuing with terror may result in a worse fate.

Divided by who? This is not east Pakistan where there is a huge geographical gap. Dividing Pakistan is just wishful thinking, although your country has tried her utmost best by supporting terrorism inside Pakistan to achieve Pakistan's destruction but so far it has failed miserably.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

And what exactly was so special about this 'control room'? As far as I can tell, it involved a group of people with internet access, cell phones and some televisions. How is that some sort of a 'super special control room'? You make it sound like its a NASA Moon Launch Control Center.
..

bollywood has caused this to their brain matter

 

[Vinod2070]

Not at all, i was not personally attacking you. I was merely pointing out your hypocritical stance which were contrary to your actions.

As I said, there are no more than a few 10s active Indian members here.

I am here only because India is so much a topic of discussion. I don't care what goes on inside Pakistan that is not related to India.

You want to know a funny statistic, there are more Indians here on PDF than Pakistani members. How many Pakistani members are exactly on BR? Probably none, even if there are some whom exist they will make the minimum numbers. Thus, if Pakistan is such a non topic in India, how come Indians are crowded out on PDF. It certainly makes you ponder, the actions are contrary to your words.

Totally irrelevant and something that I have seen coming from you (and your fellows) more than once.

The 20 or so "active" Indian members here (and probably an equal number of active Pakistanis) may be a "funny statistic" for you. It is a negligibly small number if one keeps perspective.

And again, most Indians including me are only here because this forum is obsessed about India more than anything else.

When dealing with a neighbour like India, we certainly have to harden our stance.

Like we care! As long as the terrorists are blowing up within Pakistan and not in India.

We are and trying our utmost best to root out this menace. This is why we have suffered the most casualties and sacrificed the most for this WOT. On a side note the terrorists are not ours, they used to be supported by the world excluding ex communist countries to take down the Soviet Union. Pakistan's curse is that it has to share a long porous border with Afghanistan and her leader's did not have vision to forecast this problem in the 90's.

It's called blowback. Pakistan benefited from Afghan's misery and made a neat cut. It also tried to apply the "lessons" to try and snatch Kashmir from India which its army had failed to do.

No point blaming others for your own failures. No one else told you to take the Afghan lessons so much to the heart.

Even now, your generals and establishment hasn't been able to change the course. This "utmost" thingy is just for show, the desire to use the "good terrorists" as soon as Uncle goes home is still very strong.

1971 is by no means related to drones or OBL. It was just India cashing in on the opportunity to dismember Pakistan, after all Indian leaders have always held the most sinister of designs against Pakistan.

Always interesting, this blase attitude towards the biggest genocide and rapine after WW-2.

And just trying to blame India for saving the Bangladeshis from being "wiped out as a race" (as ordered by your Yahya and Tikka Khans, try your favorite search engine).

Divided by who? This is not east Pakistan where there is a huge geographical gap. Dividing Pakistan is just wishful thinking, although your country has tried her utmost best by supporting terrorism inside Pakistan to achieve Pakistan's destruction but so far it has failed miserably.

Whatever floats your boat. Apparently your Islamist terrorists who are clearly funded and supported by the gulf Islamists are again India's doing!

 

[ice_man]

Obsession of Pakistani with india????????????/ what are you on about AGENT VINOD???? we discuss india on this forum normally. if you wish to see obsession go to Bharatt Rakhshaaak

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The Parthasarathy doctrine

By Shahzad Chaudhry
Published: July 12, 2012

The writer is a defence analyst who retired as an air vice-marshal in the Pakistan Air Force

Mr Gopalapuram Parthasarathy is a redoubtable former Indian diplomat who served as a consul-general in Karachi and as India’s high commissioner in Islamabad. In his current occupation as a voice with influence in the Indian establishment, as well as in the media, and in his frequent pronouncements on India-Pakistan relations, he remains perhaps, most representative of India’s official opinion. To many in Pakistan, his plain-speaking commentary, especially related to Pakistan’s ongoing predicaments —which are many — will sound vicious.

This is what he had to say immediately after the Mumbai attacks (I paraphrase, of course): “for the first time after 60 years, we have Pakistan under our thumb (Mumbai), with a living proof (Ajmal Kasab) that it is a state sponsoring terrorism; we should simply not let it go”. He has since gone on to remind India that it let Pakistan off too easily in 1971 after Pakistan had been comprehensively vanquished. Has this doctrine more or less guided Indian policy towards Pakistan in the post-Mumbai years? It most likely has and that is why I refer to his pronouncements as a doctrine.

In a recent discussion on an Indian TV channel at which I was present, I likened the Indian proclivity to hark back to Mumbai at the mere mention of Pakistan, to India “milking Mumbai”. It didn’t go down too well with my Indian colleagues since the three-and-a-half-year-old pain still seems real. Though it is not in their character, Indians persistently embellish that episode with emphatic sensitivity and as a great injustice that to them has still not found closure. No question on the morbidity that underwrote such heinous enactment, but even morbidity should find closure, especially if it involves two states whose past has a sad history of violence.

Novermber 26, 2008 is a reality. There had been a similar attack on the Indian parliament in 2001, and then a couple more in Kashmir. Pakistan has had its own share of similar embarrassing attacks on the GHQ and on the Mehran base in Karachi. Afghanistan is currently suffering through similar episodes of brief takeovers by militants of sensitive buildings for some hours, meant to embarrass security outfits. That doesn’t make the pain any less; just that it signifies the occurrences as common experience of these three nations as they fight off insurgencies and heinous episodes of terror emerging from multiple sources. They can do better by making coordinated efforts to fight this pervasive menace.

Zabiuddin Ansari, an Indian national, is alleged to have been the controller of the 10 men, who set sail for Mumbai. He carries a Pakistani passport, a Pakistani National Identity Card, as well as a NICOP, a National identity Card for Overseas Pakistanis. Usually, an overseas Pakistani will have only a NICOP; the fact that he had both, goes to prove that legalising him in Pakistani colours was a duplicitous undertaking. That doesn’t change the fact of his involvement but here are a few other things to consider. Ansari was apprehended at the Delhi airport; what passport did he travel on? Not his Pakistani passport for sure? His neighbours know him well and were aware of his presence in Saudi Arabia as is most common with Indians and Pakistanis who locate to the Gulf as economic migrants. He couldn’t have been missing for too long? Lamentably, the Pakistani mission in Saudi Arabia has been known for pilfering passports to illegal Pakistani migrants who are desperate to formalise an identity. A NICOP, too, can be had for some additional gratification. That can make travelling to Pakistan a piece of cake. It is crucial to determine who facilitated him with all this. That also leaves a lot of questions about who exactly were his handlers?

The other most quoted evidence is from David Headley, a naturalised American with both Pakistani and Indian antecedence, and a confirmed double agent. He claims to have been guided by the ISI at a certain time, while he is now accepted more as a CIA man protected under FBI ownership. Direct access to him has been denied to the Indians who have had to depend on whatever testimony was shared by the Americans. Such question of probity in his conduct has made his testimony seriously suspect. A Chicago court held his testimony against his former friend Tahhawur Rana — charged with abetting the Mumbai attacks — lightly and refused to implicate him in anything more serious than culpability of misplaced friendly enthusiasm. Question: was he also an Indian agent?

Ansari, along with Kasab, clearly have greater relevance to what happened on 26/11. If Ansari is found guilty, he must be sentenced to death. But Ansari and Kasab also carry plenty of information that needs to be extracted, not only by India, but by Pakistan too. That is only possible if Pakistan is given access to both, or be allowed to join a joint investigation. India proffering a few documents as evidence will not hold in any Pakistani court unless those prosecuting have direct access to the purported evidence — that remains the touchstone for any judicial process. Why should it be any different in this case?

Less said of the control room in Karachi as evidence of state culpability, the better. Mr P Chidambram considers this enough to vilify Pakistan. Given his acquired knowledge from delving in the telecom sector, he should know that such a facility can easily be established by any entity, not just the state.

It is time to take a leaf out of Pakistan’s decision to move forward with the US after Salala. It is time to move away from the Parthasarathy doctrine for a better future.

Published in The Express Tribune, July 12th, 2012.

The Parthasarathy doctrine – The Express Tribune

=========

There is one incorrect factoid in this piece - I believe the Indians were given access to Headley for a few days, but regardless, Headleys' testimony against Rana was essentially thrown out by a US court.

 

[notorious_eagle]

As I said, there are no more than a few 10s active Indian members here.

Dont know the exact numbers but definitely more than Pakistani members.

I am here only because India is so much a topic of discussion. I don't care what goes on inside Pakistan that is not related to India.

Keep telling yourself that. All of you are welcome here but please don't lie straight to my face. Do a small survey, look at all the threads that are about India and than count how many Indian members post in that thread. You will have your answer

Totally irrelevant and something that I have seen coming from you (and your fellows) more than once.

Not at all irrelevant, i was merely pointing out your hypocrisy. Please forgive me, i am allergic to B.S. You can feed this B.S to your fellow brothers but won't work with me.

The 20 or so "active" Indian members here (and probably an equal number of active Pakistanis) may be a "funny statistic" for you. It is a negligibly small number if one keeps perspective.

And again, most Indians including me are only here because this forum is obsessed about India more than anything else.

Have you ever been to a an Indian forum, look at how many topics are opened regarding Pakistan. Have you ever opened up your print or electronic media, every next topic is somehow related to Pakistan. Your not making any sense here pal, don't get me wrong your welcome to come visit here but don't feed me your usual garbage. Honesty is the best virtue, try practising that.

Like we care! As long as the terrorists are blowing up within Pakistan and not in India.

Thats the difference between you and us, we wouldn't want terrorists blowing up anywhere. After all if the terrorists do blow up a metro station in India, it are the common people who will affected and not the decision making elite.

It's called blowback. Pakistan benefited from Afghan's misery and made a neat cut. It also tried to apply the "lessons" to try and snatch Kashmir from India which its army had failed to do.

We merely wanted to secure our Western borders. We simply wanted a quiet border where we would not have to send the Army in to expel Afghan invaders. If Pakistan really wanted to snatch Kashmir away from India, it would help the Mujahideen launch a rebellion on the same scale as the one seen in Afghan-Pakistan border. So far whatever insurgency India has experienced in Kashmir would be considered child's play compared to that in Afghanistan.

Even now, your generals and establishment hasn't been able to change the course. This "utmost" thingy is just for show, the desire to use the "good terrorists" as soon as Uncle goes home is still very strong.

Operation Rahi e Rast and Rahi Niajat are not course changers. It appears that your hatred towards Pakistan has clouded your judgement. The fact of the matter is Pakistan simply lacks the resources and manpower to launch a massive operation in North Waziristan. She needs to consolidate her gains in SW before making any moves in NW. This is something you Indians don't get, your hatred simply clouds your ability to think rationally.

Always interesting, this blase attitude towards the biggest genocide and rapine after WW-2.

OMG not again. You have pretty much lost the argument here my friend. Show me a single source which confirms that this was a genocide, the 3 million figure was created by Mujib out of thin air. There is not even a single piece of empirical or factual evidence that claims this figure. Even independent Bengalis have started to admit that by no means was 1971 a genocide. If there are 3 million people whom died and hundreds of thousands of women were raped, please produce the bones of the dead and produce the victims whom were raped. You Indians simply astonish me, any cooked up evidence that is presented against Pakistan is taken by heart in India. Simply disgusting.

And just trying to blame India for saving the Bangladeshis from being "wiped out as a race" (as ordered by your Yahya and Tikka Khans, try your favorite search engine).

Yes that is why the Indian RAW was supporting insurgents in India long before Operation Moon Light started . Since all the excesses took place after Operation Moonlight, what was India doing supporting these elements before .

Whatever floats your boat. Apparently your Islamist terrorists who are clearly funded and supported by the gulf Islamists are again India's doing!

Not Islamic but your country has been supporting terrorists in Balochistan. SHAME SHAME