Abu Hamza silent on ISI role in Mumbai attacks

[regular]

Its Western policy to keep some pawns to use them later some time for political leverage. US wouldn't use Jandal guy if Pak open the Nato route. When Pak went for tough stance, US open the cage of Saudi royal to free the Jandal guy and hand over the India.It was extreme action took by US, which was not expected by Pak. But no complain from Saudis, because Royal are surviving under US protection. If you guys notice the past few weeks activities of Leon Panetta visit to India, US govt frustration was so obvious. But it was good opportunity for Indian govt to get even with recent Spy release from Pakistan. Where Indian govt refuse to accept him as spy but spy himself openly telling in media, he was spying for Indian govt.

I liked that .......a damn shame for the Indian govt...........

 

[KRAIT]

In this kind of news, I always see two scenarios:-

Scenario -1. If ISI is guilty (Azmal says ISI is involved)- Indian conspiracy, he is RAW agent, he wears orange thread and what not.

Scenario -2 If ISI is not guilty (Azmal remains silent)- We told you so, India has been lying, they take his words as truth.

In all, there is no way India can prove or indian posters can argue with their counterparts.

Same goes when the situation is opposite and RAW is on cross-hair.

 

[Backbencher]

I dont think ISI has any involvement in this case .
Abu Hamza is a man whose perception towards his country somehow changed , and i dont blame him for that

 

[Jackdaws]

ok i buy your story. But then according to you such level of "sophistication" makes you believe a state actor was involved. HOWEVER, was the state so dumb & stupid that it let its men get caught & sing the indian songs about some SHAH and ALI??

usually such level of "sophistication" would be layered don't you think? to close all "loose ends"???

and using american airline to target america is a bigger master stroke i believe. that you train and plan and plot and use their resources with CIA asleep. and not even after the 1st hit did the CIA wake up until both towers got hit & Pentagon got hit. hell using airlines & getting trajectory spot on to hit towers is WAY MORE SOPHISTICATED compared to a couple of gun men running around a city.

I am not doubting the planning of 9/11 as being sophisticated. However the execution of 9/11 once the planes had been hijacked was not that difficult. In fact, in those days and I lived in NY back then - the security at American airports was a joke. I remember first landing there and wondering how they could be so lax.

Both the planning as well as the execution of 26/11 was extremely meticulous. Targets were chosen to create maximum impact; they traversed around the city not randomly but very precisely. Anyways - this debate is endless.

As I said, I really don't think that the civilian leadership of Pakistan was involved in 26/11. But there are enough disgruntled elements within the Pakistani military establishment who might be.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I would buy the Pakistani argument that they were non-state actors if there had been a series of bomb blasts. However, what happened in Bombay was a military style operation. Given the sophisticated way in which the attacks were carried out - they bear the signature of some form of intelligence agency being involved. It is one thing to plant a bomb; quite another to hijack vessels, navigate to Bombay, know where to land - carry out attacks at pre-determined targets. It was even more sophisticated than 9/11 - where planes were hijacked and then rammed into buildings. However, this attack had to have some state actors involved. I am sure the civilian government of Pakistan would not be involved. But that does not mean that the Pakistani security forces were not involved.

The attacks on the PA GHQ, Sri Lankan Cricket Team and various police academies were also very 'sophisticated attacks' - they involved reconnaissance, intelligence gathering and significant planning and training.

Using your argument, should one then conclude that the above mentioned terrorist attacks in Pakistan could only have been the result of Indian and/or American intelligence/military support?

But there are enough disgruntled elements within the Pakistani military establishment who might be.

They would not have to be elements 'within' the Pakistani military establishment - nothing in the Mumbai attacks required support from 'active military personnel' - former military/intelligence personnel with extremist leanings could have just as easily provided the necessary support.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Abu Hamza silent on ISI role in Mumbai attacks​

=============

So what happened to the earlier stories of 'Nailed ISI involvement in Mumbai Attacks'?

A whole bunch of lies by the Indian media?

U have no idea about so called 3rd grade treatment special of Indian police !!
They can make anyone sing truth, and fact that he is not shown to media , maybe the result of that !!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

U have no idea about so called 3rd grade treatment special of Indian police !!

They can make anyone sing truth, and fact that he is not shown to media , maybe the result of that !!

Apparently not even that '3rd grade treatment special of Indian police' has worked so far, and yet the headlines in the Indian media and by the GoI are basically blatant lies and distortions, that is my point.

BTW, most research shows that torture a man enough, and once can get him to 'confess to being a Martian'.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the situation is the same as before, no evidence implicating the Pakistani State in the Mumbai attacks.

 

[KRAIT]

Apparently not even that '3rd grade treatment special of Indian police' has worked so far, and yet the headlines in the Indian media and by the GoI are basically blatant lies and distortions, that is my point.

You think everything is told to media and common man ? There is always more than what meets the eyes.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

You think everything is told to media and common man ? There is always more than what meets the eyes.

The Indian media and GoI have been making repeated statements claiming that they now have evidence on the involvement of Pakistani State institutions (namely PA and ISI) in the Mumbai attacks, so where is that evidence?

If your government and media are going to make such claims backed up by nothing, then they are obviously going to be treated as the liars and fools they appear to be (and Rehman Malik falls in that category as well).

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Read this.....
Pak passport of Jundal shows him as a resident of Punjab - The Times of India

Read this.....

Birthday Card shows Him receiving Rs 100 and a box of chocolates from Gen Hamid Gul

 

[KRAIT]

The Indian media and GoI have been making repeated statements claiming that they now have evidence on the involvement of Pakistani State institutions (namely PA and ISI) in the Mumbai attacks, so where is that evidence?

If your government and media are going to make such claims backed up by nothing, then they are obviously going to be treated as the liars and fools they appear to be (and Rehman Malik falls in that category as well).

I think when talks are on highest diplomatic level things aren't made public soon. Sensitive issues like terrorism and possible leads which may have been gained, we don't want to spook others about how much India now knows.

Its all about keeping things in dark. I remember many instances, where no public announcements are made where these types of situations are concerned. May be they are waiting to get more evidence through him and will produce collectively at the right time. Timing of presentation drives the common perception and sometimes attracts the attention.

Many factors and "may be" are involved than looking at the situation from one point of reference, i.e. common man's rather than other, lets say from Intelligence bureau and RAW.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Apparently not even that '3rd grade treatment special of Indian police' has worked so far, and yet the headlines in the Indian media and by the GoI are basically blatant lies and distortions, that is my point.

BTW, most research shows that torture a man enough, and once can get him to 'confess to being a Martian'.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the situation is the same as before, no evidence implicating the Pakistani State in the Mumbai attacks.

Do u think IB and RAW gave a public statement that he refused to answer?
Its just a media report... The fact such a sophisticated control room in Karachi is a case in point... Is ISI is so dumb that it cant moniter such communications from a default control room?
C'mon man, the scale of such attacks proves there is a state actor link.. No intelligence agencis accepts this...
CIA tried to murder Fiedel Castro 100 times, but will they accept it?
I dont think even the ISI will ever accept.. Its the way agencies operate...
SO NOW IF HE TELLS ABOUT ISI INVOLVEMENT, WILL U BUY HIS ARGUEMENT? u WILL ACCEPT ISI INVOLVEMENT?

 

[rockstarIN]

Its just the begining of questioning. Just wait and see what he is gonna spit.

|The hardcore guys in US cuben jail even survived for long against water logging. He must have prepared with answers to the police first. Just wait and see.

OP's argument is flawed, he is silent on ISI..and they are jumping.!! come on...will they accept if he says ISI is involved? Another denial statement from |Rehman Malik, nothing else.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Do u think IB and RAW gave a public statement that he refused to answer?
Its just a media report... The fact such a sophisticated control room in Karachi is a case in point... Is ISI is so dumb that it cant moniter such communications from a default control room?
C'mon man, the scale of such attacks proves there is a state actor link.. No intelligence agencis accepts this...
CIA tried to murder Fiedel Castro 100 times, but will they accept it?
I dont think even the ISI will ever accept.. Its the way agencies operate...
SO NOW IF HE TELLS ABOUT ISI INVOLVEMENT, WILL U BUY HIS ARGUEMENT? u WILL ACCEPT ISI INVOLVEMENT?

OP's argument is flawed, he is silent on ISI..and they are jumping.!! come on...will they accept if he says ISI is involved? Another denial statement from |Rehman Malik, nothing else.

My argument is valid - the excuse by the majority of the Indians looking to clutch at any straw to implicate the ISI/Pakistani State in the Mumbai attacks, to explain the lack of any credible evidence supporting their allegations, is that the 'evidence/confessions are being kept confidential/secret' or that 'Jindal will confess eventually', both of which only serve to support my point that the Indian media has been caught lying given their sensationalist headlines and stories claiming that 'Jindal clearly exposed the ISI role'.

The fact that Jindal has revealed nothing new whatsoever is again highlighted by this quote:

"“It is no longer possible to deny that though the incident happened in Mumbai, there was a control room in Pakistan before and during the incident. Without state support, the control room could not have been established,” Home Minister P. Chidambaram told journalists here."
The Hindu : News / National : Futile to deny state role, Chidambaram tells Pakistan

The fact that there was a 'control room from which the Mumbai attack plotters operated' has been known pretty much since the attacks, so how does Jindal's capture suddenly turn this old piece of information into some 'new and undeniable evidence of Pakistani State complicity'?

The fact of the matter is, as most Indians willing to actually think about the situation would acknowledge, that Jindal or Headley or whomever, would have had no clue about the actual identities of any ISI officials (if they were even involved) interacting with them. And therefore, as we have already seen with Headley's testimony, none of these individuals really have any credible information or idea about the identities of some of the characters they dealt with - implicating the ISI or any other Pakistani State institution is not even on the radar.

The GoI and Indian media's desire to keep harping on this broken record based on speculation and paranoia is going to do nothing but inflame public opinion on both sides and make it harder for any GoP to actually cooperate with India on terrorism related issues.

 

[SMC]

Does anyone not notice the obvious hypocrisy and contradiction in the 'evidence is being kept secret' argument? Don't these guys (i.e. Indians) balk at and criticize similar claims made by individual Pakistanis?

I mean really, to what ends will the hypocrisy go? I've seen it all now. Claiming others believe in conspiracy theories, telling others they have irrational paranoia of India, supporting civilian deaths in drone attacks and on and on. And then doing the exact things they criticize.