Abu Hamza silent on ISI role in Mumbai attacks

[Yeti]

This does conflict with what the Indian press have been quoting and also the American media so who is right and who is wrong? seems like a game of cat and mouse going on here.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

A flawed argument.
There are two developments which took place in past few months, which when viewed together, preclude the above line of argument.


1) Abu Hamza has Pakistani passport.

Implies nothing given that it is not difficult, with loads of cash, to obtain forged/falsified documents in Pakistan (or many other developing countries for that matter)

2) Pakistan lobbying with Saudi intelligence agencies to stop Jundal being sent to India.
Pakistan wanted that Jundal should be handed over to them, claiming that he was a Pakistani national.

Speculation and unconfirmed rumors.

This does conflict with what the Indian press have been quoting and also the American media so who is right and who is wrong? seems like a game of cat and mouse going on here.

Thank you - swallowing the sensationalist headlines in the media 'hook line and sinker' will not cause the media to become more responsible in its reporting.

The fact is that there is little to nothing new known at this point, and certainly no credible evidence about the complicity of Pakistani institutions in the Mumbai attacks.

 

[joekrish]

Truth will prevail sooner than later, that is the rule of nature.

 

[Yeti]

Agree with Agnostic Muslim on the passport issue any tom, dick or harry can obtain one if they know the right people and have the $$. Let's just wait for things to unfold over time as it does no good pointing fingers if there is not 'credible' evidence but if there was more persons in that control room (which im sure there was) those culprits need to be brought to book so we can close this chapter once and for all and move on with our ties.

 

[manojb]

So why pak tried to extradote him from saudi to pak?

 

[ares]

Implies nothing given that it is not difficult, with loads of cash, to obtain forged/falsified documents in Pakistan (or many other developing countries for that matter)


Speculation and unconfirmed rumors.

.

What are the, criteria for classifying a particular piece of information as speculation and not others.
Most media sources are quoting these two distinct pieces of information in the same article.

1) That he was carrying Pakistani passport(infact his visa for Saudi was on Pakistani passport)
2)Pakistani authorities tried hinder his extradition to India by claiming he was Pakistani national.

So on what basis, are you ready to believe that first news but classify second one merely a speculation?

DNA test, hard bargain with Saudi nets 26/11 prized catch - Hindustan Times

 

[HAIDER]

Its Western policy to keep some pawns to use them later some time for political leverage. US wouldn't use Jandal guy if Pak open the Nato route. When Pak went for tough stance, US open the cage of Saudi royal to free the Jandal guy and hand over the India.It was extreme action took by US, which was not expected by Pak. But no complain from Saudis, because Royal are surviving under US protection. If you guys notice the past few weeks activities of Leon Panetta visit to India, US govt frustration was so obvious. But it was good opportunity for Indian govt to get even with recent Spy release from Pakistan. Where Indian govt refuse to accept him as spy but spy himself openly telling in media, he was spying for Indian govt.

 

[solid state]

Bad pak India relations in best interest of US.

 

[kumarkumar1867]

Than start removing your assets from Afghanistan who are hurting Pakistan constantly.

Our Assets?? ...Prove it First than we will think of

What about Your Assets in Kashmir?? It even doesnt need proof.... Forgot Hizbul Chief Syed Salahuddin warning to GOP & PA in islamabad??

Please see your own media's statements as well:

"Jundal, who was among those directing the attackers, including lone surviving terrorist Ajmal Kasab, told interrogators that though he could not identify the ISI officers by name and rank, their appearance and authoritative conduct clearly indicated that they were from the intelligence agency, sources told HT."

'2 men in control room looked like ISI officers' - Hindustan Times

See the highlighted part - basically there is nothing to suggest ISI involvement other than outlandish speculation, yet the Indian media and GoI are hysterically ranting and raving about having 'Proved ISI/Pakistani State involvement in the Mumbai attacks'.

Sir , Abu Jundal was just a usable commodity in this masterplan, his job was to teach hindi to infiltrants & guide them to places in mumbai.

One possiblity - May be he is lying & need more "Mehemaan nawaaji & Polici tadkaa" to get truth out. Well it wont not take long time if thats the case.

Other Possibility - May be ISI officers didnt revealed their Identity and introduced them as Iqbal & Ali. Are we all stupid to assume that ISI officers shared their real names & ranks with someone like Jundal who has a origin from India & was supposed to use & throw after mission accomplishes??? if they can deny nationality of Ajmal Kasab, a Pakistani Muslim National than on what grounds we can assume that they have trust/ attachment to share their information with muslim from Enemy's soil??

Haha... There is no ISI involvement! Indians like to blame everything on ISI. Abu Hamza has seen what IA does in Kashmir, so he wanted to harm the Indian state the same way IA harms people in Kashmir!

Moral of the story : What you sow, shall you reap.

Kashmir or Gujrat?? he said he was brainwashed by extremists due to Gujrat incident but you seems to know much more about his wants than he knows??? are you in contact with Abu Hamza???

&

Among 166 innocent victims that died ....40 were muslims.

Moral of Story : Terrorist is a SOB, he will kill muslim/hindus. Our Kashmiri/Indian Muslims have witnessed it

 

[Jackdaws]

I would buy the Pakistani argument that they were non-state actors if there had been a series of bomb blasts. However, what happened in Bombay was a military style operation. Given the sophisticated way in which the attacks were carried out - they bear the signature of some form of intelligence agency being involved. It is one thing to plant a bomb; quite another to hijack vessels, navigate to Bombay, know where to land - carry out attacks at pre-determined targets. It was even more sophisticated than 9/11 - where planes were hijacked and then rammed into buildings. However, this attack had to have some state actors involved. I am sure the civilian government of Pakistan would not be involved. But that does not mean that the Pakistani security forces were not involved.

 

[ice_man]

What are the, criteria for classifying a particular piece of information as speculation and not others.
Most media sources are quoting these two distinct pieces of information in the same article.

1) That he was carrying Pakistani passport(infact his visa for Saudi was on Pakistani passport)
2)Pakistani authorities tried hinder his extradition to India by claiming he was Pakistani national.

So on what basis, are you ready to believe that first news but classify second one merely a speculation?

DNA test, hard bargain with Saudi nets 26/11 prized catch - Hindustan Times

who told you all this Times of INDIA and hindustan times???? didn't see any mention of Pakistan "hindering" his deportation to india! except ofcourse the indian usual drama news

I would buy the Pakistani argument that they were non-state actors if there had been a series of bomb blasts. However, what happened in Bombay was a military style operation. Given the sophisticated way in which the attacks were carried out - they bear the signature of some form of intelligence agency being involved. It is one thing to plant a bomb; quite another to hijack vessels, navigate to Bombay, know where to land - carry out attacks at pre-determined targets. It was even more sophisticated than 9/11 - where planes were hijacked and then rammed into buildings. However, this attack had to have some state actors involved. I am sure the civilian government of Pakistan would not be involved. But that does not mean that the Pakistani security forces were not involved.

so in 9/11 which state actor of which nation was involved???

and the awesome thing according to your media is the "high level of sohpistication" of the attacks however, no back up to destroy the attackers? Like in the case of Benazir bhutto her attacker shot her moved back only to be blown to pieces.

all attacks are multi layered and not just sent 5 men to take out bombay and oops one get's caught and names SOME ALI & SHAH!!


Plot of this movie starts well but ends just like any indian movie leaving you with a feeling it could have ended better

 

[Jackdaws]

who told you all this Times of INDIA and hindustan times???? didn't see any mention of Pakistan "hindering" his deportation to india! except ofcourse the indian usual drama news



so in 9/11 which state actor of which nation was involved???

and the awesome thing according to your media is the "high level of sohpistication" of the attacks however, no back up to destroy the attackers? Like in the case of Benazir bhutto her attacker shot her moved back only to be blown to pieces.

all attacks are multi layered and not just sent 5 men to take out bombay and oops one get's caught and names SOME ALI & SHAH!!


Plot of this movie starts well but ends just like any indian movie leaving you with a feeling it could have ended better

Read my post again. I said that 26/11 was a more sophisticated plot than 9/11. 9/11 used American resources to - American airliners - to target American targets. Hence, such an act of terror is possible without the involvement of a state. But 26/11 is not.

 

[ice_man]

Read my post again. I said that 26/11 was a more sophisticated plot than 9/11. 9/11 used American resources to - American airliners - to target American targets. Hence, such an act of terror is possible without the involvement of a state. But 26/11 is not.

ok i buy your story. But then according to you such level of "sophistication" makes you believe a state actor was involved. HOWEVER, was the state so dumb & stupid that it let its men get caught & sing the indian songs about some SHAH and ALI??

usually such level of "sophistication" would be layered don't you think? to close all "loose ends"???

and using american airline to target america is a bigger master stroke i believe. that you train and plan and plot and use their resources with CIA asleep. and not even after the 1st hit did the CIA wake up until both towers got hit & Pentagon got hit. hell using airlines & getting trajectory spot on to hit towers is WAY MORE SOPHISTICATED compared to a couple of gun men running around a city.

 

[Malik Usman]

I have no Idea how u came up with the conclusion....but people all over have different scales of integrity towards there cause...and so do terrorists and there facilitators.

Abu hamza will sing, in due time...we have really great singing tutors here.


As for the involvement of ISI , Pakistanis is just in denial mode, but if u still don't see the amount of evil pent up inside ur establishments ,then no one can save u from yourself.

If you peoples don't have proofs you can also sing...as your media and officials always sing........So for no proofs has been given to Pakistani officials for Bombay Attack.....the list which is given only says that these peoples are involved in attacks are in Pakistan....but where are proofs of involvements........just fairy tales....

 

[GR!FF!N]

If you peoples don't have proofs you can also sing...as your media and officials always sing........So for no proofs has been given to Pakistani officials for Bombay Attack.....the list which is given only says that these peoples are involved in attacks are in Pakistan....but where are proofs of involvements........just fairy tales....

India already given a lot of proof to arrest those people..but anything is or will not be sufficient for you guys..but yes,if relation improves,we might see some of them will be deported to India.

and for state actors,the whole world saw how hard Pakistan govt tried to shut mouth of Kasab's parents...thats more than enough to rouse suspicion..