Abbottabad Panel: US violated Pakistan’s trust, says DGMO

[glad]

So yes, Americans caught us with our pants down or not pants ( I must say) as the western side doesn’t have the radar cover. but if we want to ensure that such incident doesn’t happen then do the following

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Once again, idiot generals assuming the public are stupid - instead of winning the confidence of the Pakistani public, every time these generals open their mouths, they alienate the nation even further.

your comment needs some analysis of its own.




if

idiot generals are assuming public is stupid then (refer to 1)
idiot generals are assuming public is smart then (refer to 2)
clever generals are assuming public is stupid then (refer to 3)
clever generals are assuming public is smart then (refer to 4)



1. then its nothing new because Politicians already know that public “IS” stupid, hence it gets stung through the same hole every time “Democracy” returns in Pakistan.
2. They should carry on with their work because no matter what they do, the smart public will find ways to moan about them.
3. They should explain to public that installing extra surveillance equipment to get full cover on the western side will need additional resources.
4. then burry the noses in each other’s…. and get a permanent brown texture.


On a lighter note:
This is a catch 22 situation. Security breaches like these do pose very valid questions even after doing away with the habitual moaners and trolls. On one hand there are limited resources that are mismanaged and on the other hand is the security issue both internal and external. An honest and open discussion with Americans and Afghans is needed with addressing their genuine concerns but also being blunt about our own and telling them that instead of constantly moaning about Haqqanis, they need to also ensure that their backyard is not a free for all for the likes of TTP and BLA. The only benefactors out of this constant bickering and mistrust are the terrorists that view both Pakistan, USA and Afghanistan as their enemy, if these parties can at least agree on one point agenda of helping each other to eradicate the TTP, Taliban, BLA and Al Qadea then there is a possibility of a resolution otherwise we will be talking about the same problem for years to come.

 

[Imran Khan]

its not USA fault but its look like as past few stupids still trust on black cobra snake

 

[Jihad]

Look at all the speculation going around here.
I understand people's worries about what had happened in Abottabad.

The public still doesn't have any clear answers.

But we must keep our heads cool and shouldn't lose sight of what is right and what is wrong.

There is an inquiry on this matter, even though I don't know if it's one we can trust or if it's distorted from reality.

We shall see...

 

[muse]

Epilogue: I do not know what all the ISI knew about Bin Laden's whereabouts before he was reportedly killed, or when the Pakistani leadership was informed about the US operation on that fateful night. But the fact that we denied all knowledge or cooperation -- even though the military and the police cordons were in place at the time of the raid, our helicopters were hovering over the area, and the Army Chief was in his command post at midnight -- explains the Country's dilemma.

If its leadership was to choose between inability to defend national borders and complicity with the US to hunt down one person who defied the mightiest of the worldly powers, it would rather concede incompetence.

Pakistan's ISI from the Inside - Steve Clemons - International - The Atlantic


What more do you need to understand?? What do you imagine the commission can actually do or come with that the former ISI chief Durrani, has not made clear above?? So dangerous is the personal threat and the internal threat to the institution of the army, that will not dare acknowledge that it knew and was complicit with the US in the take down of Bin Laden -- this should speak volumes to Pakistanis - but alas, sentiment fogs reason.

 

[Slides]

Pakistan's ISI from the Inside - Steve Clemons - International - The Atlantic


What more do you need to understand?? What do you imagine the commission can actually do or come with that the former ISI chief Durrani, has not made clear above?? So dangerous is the personal threat and the internal threat to the institution of the army, that will not dare acknowledge that it knew and was complicit with the US in the take down of Bin Laden -- this should speak volumes to Pakistanis - but alas, sentiment fogs reason.

The commission has to deal with facts. Lt. Gen. Durrani is dealing with his beliefs, which while very important, cannot trump actual facts. For one, no cordon was in place during the raid and Kayani was not in his "command post" either.

Durrani has not been in the military for a while, so of course, he would not be privy to actual facts around the May raid.

Why are you acting so jazbati? We don't know yet how successful this commission will be. Your penchant to hyperventilate and hype up up everything speaks volumes to me the anything else.

It's also funny that on the one hand you blame "stupid" generals but then you take the word of a general when it agrees with your preconceived notions!

 

[muse]

no cordon was in place during the raid and Kayani was not in his "command post" either.

You say that with great passion - how do you know of these "facts"??

Your penchant to hyperventilate and hype up up everything speaks volumes to me the anything else.

And I am being, Jazbaati?

OK, what do you make of this piece --- to me it seems like so many mixed messages, as if they want more to obscure than illuminate:



Pakistan-US relations: Fearing fallout, US ‘delayed’ Bin Laden raid
By Tahir Khan
Published: July 31, 2011


ISLAMABAD:

The United States was ‘60 per cent sure’ of Osama bin Laden’s presence in the Abbottabad compound where he was killed on May 2 but chose to “delay its operation knowing the implications it would have on its relationship with Pakistan”, The Express Tribune has learnt.

“There has never been a dispute on targeting al Qaeda. The ISI had translated a communication of (Abu Ahmed) al Kuwaiti (Bin Laden’s courier) from Arabic for the CIA which ultimately led to the compound of the al Qaeda chief,” a source said. “The ISI had somehow failed to follow that communication,” the source added.

The source slammed a statement from the CIA chief after the May 2 operation as ‘rubbing salt into their wounds’. Leon Panetta, who is now President Barack Obama’s top defence adviser, had said that Pakistan was either complacent or incompetent in the Bin Laden issue.

“The US and Pakistan have realisation to cooperate against the common enemy (terrorism). But undefined arrangements have resulted in (CIA contractor) Raymond Davis-like incidents that had brought embarrassment for us. We have to set parameters to avert such situations in future. We must work out arrangements acceptable to both sides,” the source said.

After the May 2 raid Pakistan’s image was tarnished abroad. “Had this operation been carried out by Pakistani forces, things would have been different,” the source said and added that Pakistan-US relations should be redefined, documented and streamlined.

“The militaries and governments of the two countries should cooperate with each other against the common enemy. And pressure should be eased from Pakistan because it constricts space for manoeuvres. We are losing space which is required for success against the militants,” the source said.

The source insisted that both sides need to know each other’s terms of reference. “Leave the judgment to us, let us read our environment, we have to shape the condition, it cannot happen on the wishes of others”.

About Afghanistan, the source said Pakistan has strong reservations over the capability of the Afghan National Army (ANA) to tackle security following the withdrawal of foreign troops from the war-torn country. “If the US Congress loses interest in Afghanistan, the ANA would be facing severe financial problems.”

The source said that parts of the Afghan province of Nuristan are under the Taliban control. Foreign forces have pulled out from all forward bases in Kunar and Nuristan provinces. And the source said that because of this flocks of militants are using these regions as launching pads for undoing Pakistani forces’ achievements in Mohmand and Bajaur tribal regions.

About the Shamsi airbase, the source said that the US forces have vacated from most parts of it. “There are no drones at the Shamsi airbase. They are operating from Afghanistan.” The source added that there was no agreement with the US on the drone campaign and the base was given to the US for logistics and not active operations. “To our judgment the drone campaign is counterproductive, which is further complicating the problem,” the source said.

The source quashed as untrue the popular western notion that Pakistan was not doing more or moving in a certain direction in the fight against militancy. “Pakistani forces have regained control of Damadolla, in Bajaur Agency, which was the al Qaeda headquarters,” the source said.

They are also fighting against their own people. “This puts lots of constraints on the military… We want sustainable peace and military operations do not guarantee sustainable peace, the source said and added that there should be a non-military solution to the issue.

The source said that the government was trying to restore the ‘old order’ which was working in the tribal areas. “We must give back this area to (Pakhtun) tribes, so that they must not join hands with the militants.”

The source claimed that the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) was banished from Bajaur and Mohmand and its chapter in Swat has been closed. “A lot of them (TTP militants) have been killed. Nearly 1,500 militants have surrendered in Mohmand Agency, where the forces have destroyed seven IED-making factories,” the source said but added that complete purge would take some time.

 

[Slides]

You say that with great passion - how do you know of these "facts"??

Passion? I believe it's you who is using emotional language and other sloganeering not conducive to a discussion based on known facts. I know of these facts because I have read multiple news reports including accounts from eyewitnesses. The first Pakistani units to arrive on location were 1 hour AFTER the raid had completed. So far, no one has disputed this account, either eyewitnesses, or US or Pakistani official sources.

And I am being, Jazbaati?

Yes, yes you are. The tone of your posts and attempts at quoting sources that fit your point of view is telling.

OK, what do you make of this piece --- to me it seems like so many mixed messages, as if they want more to obscure than illuminate:

Instead of highlighting random parts of an article, why don't you TELL us what point you're trying to make in a calm and collected manner, without resorting to calling people "stupid" or other childish behavior. Too much to ask?

 

[muse]

I think the article is presenting information that is intended to obscure, to confuse -- On the one hand the "source" says If Pakistani forces had handled the operations, things would be different and on the other hand says leave the judgement to us --- Now if by "different" the source means that Pakistani forces would allow Bin Laden to escape or that they would have arrested Bin Laden instead of killing him - well it's obvious that such thing would find no takers in Washington or Langley.

On your point that I provide evidences that allow me to support my points, well, what I can tell you, usually people are persuaded instead of objecting to the presentation of a persuasive position.

 

[Slides]

You go around around in circles more than a race car on a track. I am unable to figure out what exactly you're arguing for or against.

 

[muse]

Then sit this one out - you should be listen and reading more than trying to interact, when you can't even follow along

 

[President Camacho]

Like I said before, the armed forces are caught in between a rock and a hard place: the only two options left are pleading incompetence or collusion. They are stuck either way with an unpalatable choice.

'Collusion' will work like a double edged sword.

But one can replace the term 'incompetence' with 'incapacity'. Everyone knows how rich, advanced, and well facilitated the US army is. PA should not feel embarrassed at the fact that it got outsmarted by the most advanced and powerful entity in the world. As far as OBL is concerned, such gaps are there in every army of every country in the world. I am sure one can even bribe an official at the Vatican City to visit the cells down there.

Anyway, I think that if the Army chooses, it has quite a few choices that will not offend anyone, and PA's honor will remain intact.

 

[muse]

It's too late for all that -- Gen Durrani says Pakistan army does not dare say it was in on the job because. well. are we to believe the army is scared of a bunch of tribals or is it scared of what it's own will do to the generals and their families?

 

[President Camacho]

It's too late for all that -- Gen Durrani says Pakistan army does not dare say it was in on the job because. well. are we to believe the army is scared of a bunch of tribals or is it scared of what it's own will do to the generals and their families?

Hi, I haven't been following the news for a few days now. Where can I find Gen Durrani stating all that, if you can help, please?