Abbottabad Panel: US violated Pakistan’s trust, says DGMO

[muse]

Come on now, we can't go on with cover up and all that rubbish -- first of all, NEVER, ever, ever, be defensive - just cause US is going nuts, doesn't mean Pakistan have to as well.

We deserve answers, the institutions themselves need these answers, it's the only way they can save themselves - see, there's going to be another 6 years of PPP - forget that idiot Imran Khan stuff, that's pie in the sky -- now if the institutions themselves don't get answers, the PPP won't just re-orient the armed forces, they will in effect destroy them, or rather they will allow the armed forces to destroy themselves - they need Islah, but the generals won't do it, they have no incentive to do it - below the generals, the armed forces need these answers.

 

[VelocuR]

What about the world's trust Pakistan violated by allowing OBL to be inside Pakistan ?

Whatever be the reasons assigned the fact that the most wanted terrorist lived well within Pak with his wives is simply not acceptable. This act of omission makes GOP ( & ISI/ PA) culpable and a party to the crime.

This is how the world sees it.

It is OBL choose to live in Pakistan. There is real issues free borders between Afghanistan/Pakistan. I think the world is moving on after the death of OBL- grateful. Let's move on.

 

[truth is here]

secular fanatics are all over this thread
brand new one dollar bill has it wonders and especiallyy a burger chamcha reached a utopian state of mind after sniffing it but having said this i would say america left the helicopter tail behind and all we needed was the paint used on the tail and its pic....Chinese will reconstruct the tail using softwares and paint will be uncoded soon....
we can expect to see block 2 of JF-17 with not only stealth features but also stealth paint job.
If BLOCK 2'S new engine can make it travel at mach 2.5 or 2.8 we will consider throwing away the bugged F-16's.

 

[third eye]

It is OBL choose to live in Pakistan. There is real issues free borders between Afghanistan/Pakistan. I think the world is moving on after the death of OBL- grateful. Let's move on.

Its your country and you have a right to accept such logic.

The world cannot buy this argument. Really, if OBL 'chose' to live near the PMA it had to be with the knowledge of someone inside pak. This subject has been thrashed to death here therefore shall not be taken any further.

Yes, lets move on. But not without answers.

Till then this issue of trust & its violation will remain.

 

[Oldman1]

Go Marines! Just couldn't help myself with the article when it refers to supposed Marine raid on OBL.

 

[StormShadow]

So...still anybody out there believes OBL was killed long back and Operation Geronimo was just a fake operation?

 

[StormShadow]

secular fanatics are all over this thread
brand new one dollar bill has it wonders and especiallyy a burger chamcha reached a utopian state of mind after sniffing it but having said this i would say america left the helicopter tail behind and all we needed was the paint used on the tail and its pic....Chinese will reconstruct the tail using softwares and paint will be uncoded soon....
we can expect to see block 2 of JF-17 with not only stealth features but also stealth paint job.
If BLOCK 2'S new engine can make it travel at mach 2.5 or 2.8 we will consider throwing away the bugged F-16's.

Wow o Wow!! All the best with that!

 

[Xeric]

Like some one once said; "we are the victim of our own allies"

Kissa mukhtisar..

 

[Xeric]

Come on now, we can't go on with cover up and all that rubbish -- first of all, NEVER, ever, ever, be defensive - just cause US is going nuts, doesn't mean Pakistan have to as well.

We deserve answers, the institutions themselves need these answers, it's the only way they can save themselves - see, there's going to be another 6 years of PPP - forget that idiot Imran Khan stuff, that's pie in the sky -- now if the institutions themselves don't get answers, the PPP won't just re-orient the armed forces, they will in effect destroy them, or rather they will allow the armed forces to destroy themselves - they need Islah, but the generals won't do it, they have no incentive to do it - below the generals, the armed forces need these answers.

No need to go hyper.

You need the answers, well just pray that the commission do what it is supposed to do, without any interference.

Now if they allow outsiders to interfere or influence their findings and decisions then no one expect the commission is to be blamed.

See, i'll resign from a job that i am trusted upon, but then i find 'outsiders' telling me how to do it.

Like someone with whom i was discussing something declared that Gen Karamat did a guud thing by 'resigning' (instead of taking over) when he found himself in contradiction with the governmental policies. He went further by saying that other generals who succeeded Gen Karamat should also have done the same.

So my obvious question (not that i didnt know the answer) was, what did/would these resignations bring? He replied, it would have built a pressure for all to see - COAS' resigning in a row because of bad/detrimental governmental policies.

So, if the commission believes (as you have already presumed) that it is being stopped from bringing out the facts, placing the blame of the guys who were responsible etc, then WTF, they should come out and say so, tell the Nation that they would not carry on with the investigation and the Nation should get someone else to do the job, as they wont do it!

Why fill one's bank balances and fetch a few (commercial) plots here and there?

Improved Pakistan, indeed!

 

[S.M.R]

Its your country and you have a right to accept such logic.

The world cannot buy this argument. Really, if OBL 'chose' to live near the PMA it had to be with the knowledge of someone inside pak. This subject has been thrashed to death here therefore shall not be taken any further.

Yes, lets move on. But not without answers.

Till then this issue of trust & its violation will remain.

Yes, we should stick with the questions that are yet to be answered. Why didn't they shown the body of OBL and thrown him into sea? without verification by independent experts. Till date these are just claims that he was living near PMA, which is yet to be proven.

if OBL 'chose' to live near the PMA it had to be with the knowledge of someone inside pak.

Don't you think you apply double standards here? Our border with Afghanistan is insecure and anyone can easily come into Pakistan from there.

Aren't you forgetting that as per your govt. 132 People who were in India have gone vanished without any trace.

Further, by your logic, how can Ajmal Kasab was able to reach inside Mumbai without any knowledge of someone inside India?

On topic: There are no doubts that US violated trust of Pakistan. For those who are saying that what our army was doing? sleeping etc. need to understand that we dependent on technology of other countries. we are not the inventors of defense equipment. The people who are inventor of those equipments are aware that how can that technology be dodged.

 

[forcetrip]

They have all kinds of proof for people they actually think will prove to be beneficial to their interests. Pakistani public is not one of them. Each pixel of a photo can be analyzed and any discrepancies are caught within 15 mins.

 

[Juice]

Go Marines! Just couldn't help myself with the article when it refers to supposed Marine raid on OBL.

Lol, they weren't Marines you crazy old f@rt...Delta and SEALS. (kidding, I know the jarheads wouldn't let this go down without a finger in the pie!)

 

[araz]

Yes, I suppose you are right - in the end, the commission findings will be US bad untrustworthy, Pakistani armed forces "been had" - I don't think we'll ever get to know anything about how Osamy came to be in Abbottaabad and exactly how intellugence failures that lst years and years allow us to have confidence that these clowns can be trusted with nukilr wepons

But does it still not point to the same thing? You were had because you were incompetant and found sleeping on the job, or you knew about the raid but kept mum. I think whichever way you look at it, it sounds bad for the armed forces in general and the army and PAF in particular.
I think the latter is closer to the truth in that the army knew of the raid but did not know of the nature and the target. I have a feeling that there is a great wind siding up with the powers that be to silence this affair even at the cost of some compromise. High level politics is dirty and no one is immune to it.
Araz

 

[moha199]

Come on now, we can't go on with cover up and all that rubbish -- first of all, NEVER, ever, ever, be defensive - just cause US is going nuts, doesn't mean Pakistan have to as well.

We deserve answers, the institutions themselves need these answers, it's the only way they can save themselves - see, there's going to be another 6 years of PPP - forget that idiot Imran Khan stuff, that's pie in the sky -- now if the institutions themselves don't get answers, the PPP won't just re-orient the armed forces, they will in effect destroy them, or rather they will allow the armed forces to destroy themselves - they need Islah, but the generals won't do it, they have no incentive to do it - below the generals, the armed forces need these answers.

what answers does public need? well the answer which were given are not acceptable by public, because it is dumb as sheep, how hard does it get to understand? USA USED STEALTH TECHNOLOGY. Pakistan is not rich country which can buy and put radar coverage on all sides of boarder, even if we did have radars on all sides i mean all meaning 4 not 100% one side, still stealth technology is way advanced then what any country has compared to USA and especially Pakistan? forget about it right now, Army has cut her defense budget dramatically and i guess public want no budget at all for them and they wanna go to borders with sticks and axes ? now the questions many asked why didn't we do anything when they were on the top of abadabad? mus i have known you for a quite well i know you are frustrated since i have known you for years on this forum, i have read you many times but my brother you need to put emotions aside. For example if Pakistan had shot down or attacked US forces then we would off had american media and government all over the world that USA tried to take action in Pakistan against OBL and Pakistani army fought back to save OBL. we would have been totally alienated from world even china would have given up! not to forget that USA had passed the message which the operation was underway that if you try to stop we will fight back, it has showed very clearly on american media that OBAMA had 3 teams ready along with 18 F 18 and b1 bomber. US satalite jammers were in placed and USA was ready to confront Pakistan now are you really thinking that USA WOULD HAVE WAITED TO PAKISTAN TO ATTACK AND NOT HAD IT MADE CLARE TO PAKISTANI ARMY? brother muse you are better then this, im sure you can put the picture together, now if you wanna hear from generals that we were totally incompetent against USA then you won't hear that. fact is that even kiyani came on and said in news that Pakistan can't take on USA forces. we are not in that level... now what else do you wanna hear from generals? what you and public wanna hear won't hear from army because then Pakistani army declare that we couldn't fight back and it will open many ways for world. There are strong rumor that stealth helicopter was shot down by anti aircraft guns and USA sent the message that if it proceed then we will react to this with full force. now there is many things that Pakistani army can't make it open because we have this war going on and USA will stay here for some time and we can't open two borders and we can't speak the full truth what happen because then there will be more anti Americanism on high level. there are many factors i hope you will put your emotions aside and think clear. please don't think of me as criticizing you but i strongly believe that you need to put your emotions aside. Man we have only few left over good members who can actually put some sense to this forum, rest is all yahoo chat material

 

[Irfan Baloch]

How credible is this comment? After all, if the Pakistani forces were asleep at the wheel when the US carried out the raid in Abbottabad, what reasons have the public and the world public, to be assured that the facilities used to store nuclear weapons and the forces used to guard the facilities, are not in "peace time" mode??

It is similarly "incredible" that the armed forces thought of ISAF and NATO as "allies", given the goings on at the border.

Once again, idiot generals assuming the public are stupid - instead of winning the confidence of the Pakistani public, every time these generals open their mouths, they alienate the nation even further.

yes and no

indeed the relations with ISAF and Afghanistan are not at the level of say China and Turkey but still they are not as bad as India are they?
there are no past hostilities, except the intrusions of the Soviet and Communist Afghan jets and helicopters during the “cold-war era” most of those intruders were shot down.


So yes, Americans caught us with our pants down or not pants ( I must say) as the western side doesn’t have the radar cover. but if we want to ensure that such incident doesn’t happen then do the following

1. smoke out any multi-wife “cave dweller” ourselves and hand him over to the Yanks.
2. Spend more money and resources to setup air cover on the western side like along India.

Re second option, any more military expenditure will cause a lot of controversy so either some resources will have to be moved from eastern front or just leave everything as it is and try to achieve first option.