Aamir Khan responds

[SarthakGanguly]

@Mamsalaphala In the camps for cow slaughter and against it, which one do you belong to? We know ruby's position. What's yours?

 

[Mamsalaphala]

@Mamsalaphala In the camps for cow slaughter and against it, which one do you belong to? We know ruby's position. What's yours?

I am the on who had started the cow slaughter debate in pdf ..... and you are now asking me ? Life has indeed come a full circle.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

I am the on who had started the cow slaughter debate in pdf ..... and you are now asking me ? Life has indeed come a full circle.

No. One of your previous avatars did that. Not 'technically' you. So which side btw? For slaughter or against? Give a clear answer.

 

[Mamsalaphala]

No. One of your previous avatars did that. Not 'technically' you. So which side btw? For slaughter or against? Give a clear answer.

Why ?

 

[rubyjackass]

Adharma is not a new term. I am surprised that you do not know what it is. Its the Opposite of Dharma.

I am talking about 'Adharma values', your newly invented term.

The fight against power cuts and man holes is what has brought Modi to power. It is a victory over the CONgress who has cheated the nation over decades.

A ban on Cow Slaughter is very much part of my Personal and Social Value system which seeks of me to install a Dharmic society. There is no contradiction here.

No one has denied your citizenship so you crying victim is just a demonstrate of your dishonesty. A Strawman which you want to demolish and claim moral victory.

It is not about me. Then how come day in and day out, why do you call beef eating foreign value, when it is clear that right hear in India beef eating is a native practice for centuries. How long does this take in your book to become native?! In fact I would argue that parts of India have beef eating as an older continuing tradition that the opposite. So keep your BS about beef eating being a foreign value. You are no way a nationalist. You just claim that to cover up your communalism and religious bigotry. So do the saffronists.

This entire rhetorical questions is build on falsehood and is designed to build and demolish strawmen. Nothing reeks more of dishonesty than this desperate attempt.

Baahh... you wouldsay that wouldn't you. Otherwise who pitted 'foreign values' against 'Indian values' and called beef eating as foregin values?

This is exactly why the debate will not go your way. My prize is the debate itself, where I get to prove you wrong everytime.

If you have such a low standard of victory, then take the prize It will give you consolation. Debate is good. But I hope these people settle the question once and for all. So

This question has already been settled by a Supreme Court Judgement which has made slaughter of Cow illegal based on the directive principle. Funnily enough it was because of religion and the SC has recognized it.
So much for your Lies. (or ignorance?)

Achcha?! Which judgement is it? Supreme Court said directive principles should be followed by government, that too in a different case. Neverw did it say anything about following religion. Liar!!

If it is such a cut and clean case before Supreme Court and you won it, then what is the debate for? Yeah you won the debate boy.

I am not ashamed of what happened after Godhra Train burning. So there is no "insecurity' here. Its all your wishful thinking.

I did not even have that in mind(as I mentioned in my previous post, may be you did not get it) about Modi's faults and you keep justifying it saying he had no role, I am not ashamed BS. Shows your insecurity.

It comes to mind because that is what the usual "secular" discussing boils down too. Hardly a comment on me.

Your "minimum" expectations from a politician is a ridiculous wish list. Dedicated, clean and honest is a rarity in politics, not the norm. But I am sure you know this. Its again your Dishonesty that makes you comment otherwise.

Modi has not spoken on the murder of Poojari either. Its not his job to speak on state crimes. Murder or otherwise. You have been fed the opium of Minority Appeasement that you think that is your right to be fed that opium.

Modi has not taken any stand AGAINST Muslims, so you pretty much know he is not against you. But its one thing to know, another to acknowledge this reality.

I am yet to see BJP members who badmouth all muslims. They bad mouth all people who oppose them. Muslims or communist or Hindus. Again your mind seeks out "muslims" and expect minority appeasement and the absence of which is considered "communal".

Yeah sure. But he tolerates his men spewing BS.

Anyone can claim dedicated, clean and honest. Was Manmohan Singh not all three? You should read about the number of hours he put in daily at that age. Yet I don't think he is PM material. Modi on the other hand looks better with authority, but he should prove his 'nationalist' credentials that he himself gloats by keeping communalists on a leash.

You are deaf to the language spoken by BJP leaders. You were a kid when the saffronist brigade brought down a mosque. They only tempered down because they have PR consultants now. I did not seek any minority appeasement for anyone. I am pointing out that these guys regularly target muslims. And they regularly give a traitor stamp to anyone who opposed Modi.

PS: I never acknowledged that I am a muslim or for that matter anyone. However if calling me a muslim is necessary for your orgasm, knock yourself out.

Its been proven that ML spoke for the Muslims and they demanded Partition. You have lost your point.

How does it contradict my point that ML did not win that big until 1946? For national assembly, local parties like Unionist Party backed up Congress or Muslim League.

For example Unionists joined ML because they thought Jinnah would get them more provincial autonomy and also of course because of pressure from Pakistanfans. By next year election Unionists lost most of their Sikh and Hindu members. [Source: Ayesha Jalal]

You statement that ML spoke for all muslims was similar to what Jinnah made. And that was his basis for negotiation in 1946. For getting the requisite backing ML offered different things for different people(Sind for Sind muslim constituencies earlier).

But Congress called this BS and kept insisting Congress represents India regardless of religion. The actual and clear picture can be seen in provincial elections(where again Congress might have promised different things). But Congress did fairly well(it was not a devastating defeat) despite being against the tide of the time. It had a base among Hindus in those provinces, but the number of seats it won is higher. This is at a time when some Scheduled Caste members were part of the League.


And finally, OK let us say that all muslims of India voted ML and wanted to go out of the country. They are here only because their ancestors could not move. Now what? You are going to make them second class citizens for that? You yourself said no.

 

[rubyjackass]

The country is divided already. Just that there are no political lines drawn yet. It was always there.

Hindus have had enough now. The younger generation especially have had it. The only way you could have prevented it was to destroy Hinduism entirely. Not just Govt. controlling temples, but liquidating them slowly in the name of releasing funds for the public or some other hogwash. Now its too late.

The bad thing for hardliner Muslims and 'secular' folks like you is that except for some Sunnis, casteist uneducated folks and the eminent seculars - all of India(of all religions) is now rallying behind a revival. So in the event of the inevitable self purification (aka civil war), one side will have to cease to exist, without altering any International boundaries.

Every civilized country had to undergo them. USA, France, England, Germany, Italy, Russia, etc etc. So I am not surprised that we are not being any exception.

OMFG. You are linking the beef ban with French, US, English and Prussian revolution?!! If anything of the revolutions should be taken as a indication, in India religion will be relegated to its right place in society. Let the debate continue.

If government is taking control of temples, fight against it. It is a fairly simple law. Most secular people would support goverment letting go of endowments department. Actually one of the reasons why government had to take it over was that some old and remote temples with less pilgrimage get dilapidated because of lack of funds and endowments is supposed to save them. Again a case of saving Hinduism from Hinduism.

One side need not annihilate in a debate. Enough of your salvation for a war. There is no need for one. No need for such seriousness in the issue.

 

[LaBong]

League did not win until 1946 in any of current Pakistani states, except may be Bengal.

Fazlul Haq's socialist Krishak Majdur party won the majority in Bengal. He was a bitter rival of league and wanted to have an alliance with Congress. However the landlord lobby in congress didn't let that happen since they were afraid of Haque's election promise of land reform. Feeling betrayed he went to league as last option!

 

[Mamsalaphala]

It is not about me. Then how come day in and day out, why do you call beef eating foreign value, when it is clear that right hear in India beef eating is a native practice for centuries. How long does this take in your book to become native?! In fact I would argue that parts of India have beef eating as an older continuing tradition that the opposite. So keep your BS about beef eating being a foreign value. You are no way a nationalist. You just claim that to cover up your communalism and religious bigotry. So do the saffronists.

Baahh... you wouldsay that wouldn't you. Otherwise who pitted 'foreign values' against 'Indian values' and called beef eating as foregin values?

Rubbish. Beef eating was never a common native practice. Cow Worship was a Native practice.

Repeating a live a 1000 times does not make it the truth. The "translation" by christians that made Ashwameha yagna into "horse sacrifice" or translations of Rg Veda that turned Indra into a dog eater.

Bull was sacrificed on very special occasion to the gods during Yagnas and the meat was served as a prasad to the participants of the Yagna. Not as a delicacy to be enjoyed, but a recognition of continuity of life as a gift from the gods.

Rg Veda calls Cow aghnya, it literally means "cannot be killed"

Even the Satapatha Brahmana which mentioned the sacrifice (and quoted by "seculars") ends by saying the Rishi Yagnavalkya (the author) consider it evil and a sin and condemn it.

When all your lies fail you revert back to the only trick in the book, Trying to issue me certificates of "Nationalism" and "secularims" ... predictable to the very end.

If you have such a low standard of victory, then take the prize It will give you consolation. Debate is good. But I hope these people settle the question once and for all. So

I set low standards with I interact with people who come to pdf. Even then, so far you seem to be loosing.

Achcha?! Which judgement is it? Supreme Court said directive principles should be followed by government, that too in a different case. Neverw did it say anything about following religion. Liar!!

If it is such a cut and clean case before Supreme Court and you won it, then what is the debate for? Yeah you won the debate boy.

Not only are you Ignorant, but when someone tires to remove your ignorance, you act Arrogant. Incredible hubris from someone who cannot even find a SC judgement.

This is the words from the SC Judgement.

There can be no gainsaying the fact that the Hindus in general hold the cow in great reverence and the idea of the, slaughter of cows for food is repugnant to their notions and this sentiment has in the past even led to communal riots. It is also a fact that after the recent partition of the country this agitation against the slaughter of cows has been further intensified. While we agree that the constitutional question before us cannot be decided on grounds of mere sentiment, however passion ate it may be, we, nevertheless, think that it has to be taken into consideration, though only as one of many elements, in arriving at a judicial verdict as to the reasonableness of the restrictions.

I did not even have that in mind(as I mentioned in my previous post, may be you did not get it) about Modi's faults and you keep justifying it saying he had no role, I am not ashamed BS. Shows your insecurity.

Yeah sure. But he tolerates his men spewing BS.

So your problem is Modi's "tolerance" ? ......... you want him to be "intolerant" ? Hypocrite.

Anyone can claim dedicated, clean and honest. Was Manmohan Singh not all three? You should read about the number of hours he put in daily at that age. Yet I don't think he is PM material. Modi on the other hand looks better with authority, but he should prove his 'nationalist' credentials that he himself gloats by keeping communalists on a leash.

NOPE. MMS was neither Dedicated, clean or honest in his role as PM. You must be crazy to even consider him that.

His personal "honesty" or his performance in the bedroom is nobody's business. His PUBLIC Honesty Cleanliness and Dedication is the point here. And in THAT MMS was a Thief, a Liar and a Man who's was only dedicated to serving the CONgress High Command. He ALWAYS put Sonia Before India.

Modi is not expected to put ANYBODY on LEASH. Such Perverse action that takes away individual liberty and freedom is best left to the CONgress and its vile supporters who rejoice emmergency.

Modi is Expected to ALLOW EVERYBODY to speak their Mind. Too bad if you cannot handle the truth.

You are deaf to the language spoken by BJP leaders. You were a kid when the saffronist brigade brought down a mosque. They only tempered down because they have PR consultants now. I did not seek any minority appeasement for anyone. I am pointing out that these guys regularly target muslims. And they regularly give a traitor stamp to anyone who opposed Modi.

PS: I never acknowledged that I am a muslim.

Nope. I REJOICE when I see Indians being Fee of Fear to speak the Truth.

I REJOICE to see the BJP Leaders speak they way they do, Free of any danger of anyone suppressing their right to Free Speech.

I rejoice seeing the freedom of expression and the multitude of views in my country.

Its only FACISTS who fear and hate Free speech and so far it looks like you are one of them.

Finally Babri "structure" was not a mosque, It was a temple since Hindus have been worshipping there since 1932 ever since Ram Lalla was installed there.

Indians have the freedom to target and stamp anyone as far as its within the LAW. Live with it.

 

[LaBong]

I rejoice seeing the freedom of expression and the multitude of views in my country.

But no such encouragement at freedom of eating it seems.

 

[nForce]

and now, Aamir Khan shuts up. after reading out a few lines of a poem.

 

[Mamsalaphala]

But no such encouragement at freedom of eating it seems.

You are free to seat $hit too as far I care.

Only Cow Slaughter is illegal and Adharmic. The problem with empty Rhetorics and people who make them are they cannot hold up in a rational debate.

It can only have an impact in a mindless mob and people with agendas. Tough luck.

 

[LaBong]

You are free to seat $hit too as far I care.

Only Cow Slaughter is illegal and Adharmic. The problem with empty Rhetorics and people who make them are they cannot hold up in a rational debate.

It can only have an impact in a mindless mob and people with agendas. Tough luck.

You can't claim yourself rational and then have different viewpoints on freedom of speech and freedom to eat anything i want.

Faith and rationality don't go with each other, i can understand a person for whom cow is a matter of faith, but don't understand someone who puts up a spirited argument for foe and at the same breath oppose freedom to eat because it's "only" cow slaughter which is illegal as it's against his belief system.

 

[rubyjackass]

Rubbish. Beef eating was never a common native practice. Cow Worship was a Native practice.

You go to North East. You will find unobjectionable evidence. How can you restrict an equal citizen from there from eating beef based on your beliefs?

Even in ancient texts, there is reference to it. There is enough research done on it. Of course you would be eager to brush it off as Western pseudo-secular conspiracy.

Repeating a live a 1000 times does not make it the truth. The "translation" by christians that made Ashwameha yagna into "horse sacrifice" or translations of Rg Veda that turned Indra into a dog eater.

Bull was sacrificed on very special occasion to the gods during Yagnas and the meat was served as a prasad to the participants of the Yagna. Not as a delicacy to be enjoyed, but a recognition of continuity of life as a gift from the gods.

Rg Veda calls Cow aghnya, it literally means "cannot be killed"

Even the Satapatha Brahmana which mentioned the sacrifice (and quoted by "seculars") ends by saying the Rishi Yagnavalkya (the author) consider it evil and a sin and condemn it.

When all your lies fail you revert back to the only trick in the book, Trying to issue me certificates of "Nationalism" and "secularims" ... predictable to the very end.

There is also research on roughly from when cow killing became a sin.

There can be no gainsaying the fact that the Hindus in general hold the cow in great reverence and the idea of the, slaughter of cows for food is repugnant to their notions and this sentiment has in the past even led to communal riots. It is also a fact that after the recent partition of the country this agitation against the slaughter of cows has been further intensified. While we agree that the constitutional question before us cannot be decided on grounds of mere sentiment, however passion ate it may be, we, nevertheless, think that it has to be taken into consideration, though only as one of many elements, in arriving at a judicial verdict as to the reasonableness of the restrictions.

I will read that judgement.
Yet people don't get arrested for eating beef, why? Even the section you quoted says, the verdict is being practical. I agree with practical. That is why we have restrictions on freedom on expression when it comes to 'hurting religious sentiments'. These were practical in 1950s. They should be slowly done away with. Satanic Verses need not be banned now.

So your problem is Modi's "tolerance" ? ......... you want him to be "intolerant" ? Hypocrite.

That is what you got from it?

NOPE. MMS was neither Dedicated, clean or honest in his role as PM. You must be crazy to even consider him that.

His personal "honesty" or his performance in the bedroom is nobody's business. His PUBLIC Honesty Cleanliness and Dedication is the point here. And in THAT MMS was a Thief, a Liar and a Man who's was only dedicated to serving the CONgress High Command. He ALWAYS put Sonia Before India.

Well. Then what happens to Sushma Swaraj's 'personal calls' in Lalit Gate? That is corruption as well, even if money doesn't change hands. I have only so much respect for MMS, so I wouldn't defend him. Modi has his practical compromises, MMS did his(basically everything was a compromise for him).

Modi is not expected to put ANYBODY on LEASH. Such Perverse action that takes away individual liberty and freedom is best left to the CONgress and its vile supporters who rejoice emmergency.

Modi is Expected to ALLOW EVERYBODY to speak their Mind. Too bad if you cannot handle the truth.

An MP threatening people to leave the country is not enhancing individual liberty in India. Very well, if it isa question of the MP's liberty then fine. Nobody is threatening his/her speech. However BJP will pay.

Nope. I REJOICE when I see Indians being Fee of Fear to speak the Truth.

I REJOICE to see the BJP Leaders speak they way they do, Free of any danger of anyone suppressing their right to Free Speech.

I rejoice seeing the freedom of expression and the multitude of views in my country.

Its only FACISTS who fear and hate Free speech and so far it looks like you are one of them.

Finally Babri "structure" was not a mosque, It was a temple since Hindus have been worshipping there since 1932 ever since Ram Lalla was installed there.

Indians have the freedom to target and stamp anyone as far as its within the LAW. Live with it.

Whatever, they broke down the law based on a religious excuse.

Hey Einstein, we are living with it. But these bigots will soon fall from power. It is any leaders' choice whether to sink with them.

 

[LaBong]

and now, Aamir Khan shuts up. after reading out a few lines of a poem.

Few lines of 'a' poem? Thats coming from a bengali? Blasphemy!

Anyway good night folks, let me leave unscathed before sarthak spots me here! :p

 

[Mamsalaphala]

You can't claim yourself rational and then have different viewpoints on freedom of speech and freedom to eat anything i want.

Faith and rationality don't go with each other, i can understand a person for whom cow is a matter of faith, but don't understand someone who puts up a spirited argument for foe and at the same breath oppose freedom to eat because it's "only" cow slaughter which is illegal because it's against his belief system.

That is because you do not understand the reason for prevention of Cow slaughter.

You are limited by your thinking that equates islam with Hinduism.

Cow Slaughter is not permitted because Cow is a serving productive member of Hindu society. And Dharma dictates that the society has an obligation to protect all its productive members.

A breach of that Dharma is a breach of ALL dharma. So a cow (and ALL Milch creatures) has to be protected as humans in Hindu society. Domesticated animals like Ox too have to be protected in Hindu society.

Unlike islam, Hinduism is not "Faith" base, its "Value" based. Something closet islamist like you will never understand. Which is why your argment will always revolve around "Faith" and "worship".