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A titanic power struggle in Kabul (Karzai out, Zahir Shah in?)

Karzai can be removed as well, its okay to refuse our trainers as long as the Indians leave as well. The neutrality is all that we want to achieve, not colonization.

Last I checked, there were equal number of missions in Afg from India and Pakistan. And its not Pakistan's place to dictate terms in Afg. How long do you think such a dictat would survive. See what happened to Taliban, which was Pakistan's earlier attempt to dominate Afg. That one single act has landed Pakistan bang in the middle of WOT. But for that, I have no doubt, Pakistan would have been growing much faster than India..

Also you are not talking about removing a minister of one of your states. Its a democratically elected leader of a country. Actually your 1st and last lines contradict each other..
 
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Every one knows that their is no love for Karzai in Obama's administration
I think Karzai would not ignore Pakistani concerns. There can be no stoppage in the rollback of Indian influence from Afghanistan.

Even India supported Abdullah Abdullah during the elections. A Pseudo Pashtun. That will be at the back of his mind. We want Afghanistan to prosper under a democracy. We just don't want it to align itself with India and endanger our lives.

As long as it maintains its neutrality, we don't have a problem.
 
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Delhi looking to revive India-Iran-Russia axis to influence Afghanistan


NEW DELHI: India is keen to revive an axis with Russia and Iran to ensure security and protection of its interests in war-torn Afghanistan. The issue is set to figure during talks between Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and his visiting Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin on Friday.

So far Moscow has resisted engagement in any adventure in Afghanistan other than providing supply lines to NATO forces.
A senior Russian diplomat recently rejected the idea of any Russian involvement, saying, “They have burned their hands enough in Afghanistan.” But India is confident that Iran and Central Asian Republics (CAR) would convince Moscow to keep tabs on a resurgent Taliban and Pakistani influence in the region. Indian officials have admitted that Afghanistan is turning into a battleground for a proxy war between India and Pakistan.

Besides Afghanistan, India and Russia are expected to sign a slew of agreements, including an umbrella civil nuclear pact and some supplementary agreements regarding fixing the cost of the refurbished aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov at $2.35 billion.
India is, however, more concerned with securing its $1 billion dollar investment in Afghanistan.

With US and NATO forces getting ready to withdraw as early as next year, New Delhi believes that President Hamid Karzai may not last long in the wake of a resurgent Taliban.


“Unless India prepares for the time when the Americans pull out, we will not be in a position to face the political crisis that it will trigger,” former foreign secretary Lalit Mansingh told a seminar on Afghanistan.

He suggested a revival of the India-Russia-Iran axis which supported the Northern Alliance and played an important role in dislodging the Taliban.


Retired diplomat Rajiv Sikri believes that while the India-Russia-Iran grouping must be revived, China should not be made a part of it.


Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
 
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Last I checked, there were equal number of missions in Afg from India and Pakistan. And its not Pakistan's place to dictate terms in Afg. How long do you think such a dictat would survive. See what happened to Taliban, which was Pakistan's earlier attempt to dominate Afg. That one single act has landed Pakistan bang in the middle of WOT. But for that, I have no doubt, Pakistan would have been growing much faster than India..

Also you are not talking about removing a minister of one of your states. Its a democratically elected leader of a country. Actually your 1st and last lines contradict each other..
Whether or not Pakistan has the right to dictate Afghanistan is not in question here. Pakistan WILL NOT allow Afghanistan to harm us. Rightful, wrongful, it just doesn't matter. Pakistan first.
 
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Every one knows that their is no love for Karzai in Obama's administration

Love has no role in diplomacy...And I think Obama's term will get over much before US gets out of Afg and unless some thing drastic happens, he is not coming back...
 
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Love has no role in diplomacy...And I think Obama's term will get over much before US gets out of Afg and unless some thing drastic happens, he is not coming back...

What if Obama offers withdraw of majority of its army in next election as people of US are feed up with never ending wars and make millions of jobs just before the election by public projects. :coffee:

Now republicans can't sell this quot that " things will go worst before getting better" its too costly and never ending wars
 
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Threat to Indian interests

The killing of Indians in an attack in Kabul on February 26 highlights the mounting dangers for India in Afghanistan. As the West prepares to exit from there and strike a deal with the Taliban, the very forces responsible for the latest killing, India’s vulnerabilities will increase. Kabul cannot be sealed and if large parts of the country are not under firm government control and local intelligence is unavailable, the ability of terrorist groups to strike unexpectedly cannot be eliminated.

The US has deployed an additional 30,000 troops, with the allies adding 10,000 more. This will supposedly give the means to put military pressure on Taliban strongholds, eliminate the insurgents from key areas, hold them with the help of trained and expanded Afghan forces, provide proper civilian administration, undertake development activities, winning over in the process local populations to the government side and reducing the Taliban base within the country. The operation in Marjah in the Helmand province is supposed to demonstrate the viability of this strategy, and its success, it is believed, will have a demonstration effect all over the country. But in the absence of a credible, popular, galvanising national political authority in Kabul, can this strategy work by July 2011?

The policy of reintegration and reconciliation with the Taliban is fraught with uncertainty. The December 2009 NATO statement describes reintegration as efforts at the tactical and operational levels to persuade low-level fighters, commanders and shadow governors to lay down their arms and to assimilate peacefully. Reconciliation is referred to as high-level strategic dialogue with senior leaders of the insurgent groups (no distinction here between the ‘good’ and ‘bad’ Taliban) designed to terminate their armed campaign against the Afghan people and their government. Both processes are to be Afghan-led. The January 28, 2010 London Conference, to which India was invited but its views disregarded, endorsed this policy.

The process of reintegration, according to Afghan representatives, will be advanced through strengthening Afghan institutions and their delivery capability, enforcing the rule of law, combating corruption, carrying out geographically balanced development, investing in education, creating legitimate economic opportunities, extending the reach of the government to remote areas, etc. At its core it means providing good governance. Can something that takes years to effect be done in less than 18 months? Reintegration includes the responsibility of providing physical security to those who break links with the Taliban against any reprisals in the future against them and their families from the extremists. Such protection will have to be provided by capable Afghan National Security Forces, set to increase to 1,71,600 by July 2011. Can such a well-trained and adequately armed, motivated and loyal force be created in a few months?

India needs to worry about this outreach to the Taliban. In his November 19, 2009 speech on taking over the presidency, President Karzai singled out reconciliation as one of the key priorities of his government. Karzai is rightly considered India’s good friend. His government has given us space to spread our political influence in Afghanistan. We have common interest in exposing Pakistan’s use of terror as an instrument of state policy against both India and Afghanistan. But it is Karzai who is pushing for reconciliation with the Taliban leadership in Pakistan — a policy that can gravely undermine India’s position in Afghanistan, give Pakistan the role it seeks, and open the doors to the political expansion of extremist religious ideology. It is not clear what his calculations are. His political position has been seriously eroded by the controversy over last year’s fraud-smeared presidential election. Why with little Pashtun support and an ambivalent western one he believes he can make peace with the Taliban on favourable terms as president is unclear. If this constitutes survival strategy post-US drawdown, it is unlikely to succeed. Pakistan, with no particular reason to trust Karzai, would want to see him out of the way to facilitate their own dominance over a future Afghan government. A gap is opening between what Karzai sees are Afghan interests and his own and those of India.
India has to be wary of Karzai’s search for a Saudi role in promoting the reconciliation process. Given the close nexus between the two, Saudi intervention suits Pakistan. One need not take seriously Saudi claims, made by its foreign minister to the Indian press during prime minister’s visit to the kingdom that they are not in touch with the Taliban. Reality is otherwise though the Saudis will press the Taliban to break its ties with al-Qaeda.


Western overtures to the Taliban constitute a significant diplomatic success for Pakistan, as these forces constitute its strategic assets for restoring its influence in Afghanistan. Pakistan has showed great resilience in withstanding US pressure to act against these groups. General Petraeus’ aversion to Pakistan stirring up any more ‘hornet’s nests’ in the border areas has encouraged General Kiyani to offer to mediate between US/NATO and the Taliban on the condition that Pakistan’s need for a soft strategic depth in Afghanistan is recognised as an insurance against the Indian threat and limits are put on India’s presence in Afghanistan. Pakistan will automatically get a role in the parleys with the Taliban as these groups are located on its territory and have close links with the ISI. Kiyani’s stature in Pakistan has risen, Pakistan’s attitude towards India has hardened and its political classes are singing the military’s tune.

India would need to rethink its strategy towards Afghanistan. Karzai can no longer be a reliable partner. Our local popularity is a fragile base for retaining our long-term influence unless it is supported by an ability to affect power equations within the country. The anti-Taliban forces within Afghanistan need stronger backing by Russia, Central Asian countries, Iran and India. The Taliban, sustained by Pakistan, will always be close to that country even if there are disagreements between the two. US is failing to take into account India’s long-term strategic interests. Its self-interest is prompting it to advance Pakistan’s interests at India’s expense. Its arming of an unreformed Pakistan constitutes a threat to us. The answer does not lie in India buying more arms from the US. Worse, through the West’s willingness to reconcile with the odious and vandalist Taliban forces conditions are being created for the spread of an extremist version of Islam with long term consequences for India’s security. The US is failing a critical test of its so-called strategic partnership with India.
 
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What if Obama offers withdraw of majority of its army in next election as people of US are feed up with never ending wars and make millions of jobs just before the election by public projects. :coffee:

Now republicans can't sell this quot that " things will go worst before getting better" its too costly and never ending wars
The Indian show of defiance on Afghanistan is amusing. In all likelihood, they probably have conceded defeat, just like to make their exit gracious by putting up as much resistance as they can.

The hard truth is that Pakistan can militarily take out India at will if it ever wanted to. It can logistically choke and strangle India's presence in Afghanistan. It can politically undermine Indian influence within Afghan policy with all the cards we hold in terms of reconciliation, Afghan oil and aid supply, the assistance to millions of Afghan refugees and so on.
 
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Whether or not Pakistan has the right to dictate Afghanistan is not in question here. Pakistan WILL NOT allow Afghanistan to harm us. Rightful, wrongful, it just doesn't matter. Pakistan first.

More than the right, its the question of ability..Pakistan can not dictate terms to Afg for long. The arm twisting of US will only go on till the time US's objectives in Afg are met.
 
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What if Obama offers withdraw of majority of its army in next election as people of US are feed up with never ending wars and make millions of jobs just before the election by public projects. :coffee:

Now republicans can't sell this quot that " things will go worst before getting better" its too costly and never ending wars

Gin

Obama is already history and he knows it himself..War in Afg no longer occupy Top of Mind awareness in the US. They are more bothered about the state of economy and Obama has presided over the worst year of America's economic history in last 70 years. Come 2012, there will be a republican in the white house and his approach may be very different. Obama unfortunately in his drive to be different from republicans, fell into the age old trap of giving up good along with the bad. I go to US almost every month and host multiple senior executive from US in INdia almost weekly. You are already hearing tones of missing Bush. Imagin.. Its Bush they are missing.
 
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Asim, I admire the way you are going on this, like a 60 tonner
tank.
But let me also caution you - you may be in for a rude shock.
Let me repeat Karan's choice of words, " Don't count your
chickens before they have crossed the road"
 
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Asim, I admire the way you are going on this, like a 60 tonner
tank.
But let me also caution you - you may be in for a rude shock.
Let me repeat Karan's choice of words, " Don't count your
chickens before they have crossed the road"
This won't be any walk in the park, correct. Pakistan has worked hard for it and will need to continue doing so.
 
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Pakistan: winning over Tehran and Kabul | Analysis & Opinion | Reuters

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(File photo of the three presidents together at an earlier meeting.)

According to the Iranian foreign minister, quoted by Press TV, this week’s visit by Afghan President Hamid Karzai to Islamabad was related to plans for a trilateral summit between Iran, Pakistan and Afghanistan. The relationship between the three countries and potential influence on Afghanistan gets a lot less attention than the strained ties between India and Pakistan. But it’s worth watching closely for the way it can shape the regional competition for influence in Afghanistan ahead of an expected drawdown of U.S. troops in 2011.

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was in Kabul this week, and shortly afterwards Karzai flew to Islamabad.

Press TV quoted Iranian Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki as saying that while Karzai’s visit was “not directly linked” to President Ahmadinejad’s trip, it was related to a decision made during talks with the Iranian delegation about holding a trilateral summit in Islamabad. “I think based on the negotiation between Ahmadinejad and Karzai, he will also be in contact with President (Asif Ali) Zardari,” the Iranian foreign minister said.

Pakistan had long been suspicious of Iranian influence in Afghanistan, but has been making efforts recently to improve relations with Tehran. Its ambassador to Tehran suggested last month that Pakistan had helped in the capture of Jundollah Sunni rebel group leader Abdolmalek Rigi, who Iran had said was based in its Baluchistan province.

Karzai, meanwhile, after building a close relationship with India after the fall of the Pakistan-backed Taliban in 2001, made all the right noises in Islamabad about improving relations there. Islamabad says India has been using its presence in Afghanistan to destabilise Pakistan, particularly by backing a separatist revolt in Baluchistan (which operates separately from Jundollah) — a charge New Delhi denies. It looked sourly on Karzai’s close ties with New Delhi which it saw as underpinning a proxy war in Afghanistan between Pakistan and India which had spilled over from their long-standing dispute in Kashmir.

Speaking in Islamabad, Karzai said he did not want any country using Afghanistan against another. ”The bottom line is, Afghanistan does not want any proxy wars on its territory,” he said. “India is a close friend of Afghanistan but Pakistan is a brother of Afghanistan. Pakistan is a twin brother … we’re conjoined twins, there’s no separation.”

Karzai is keen to achieve some kind of reconciliation with the Afghan Taliban. But with Pakistan arresting Taliban commander Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar and other Taliban leaders, it has made it clear that any reconciliation will need its help.

That puts it in a uniquely strong position to set the terms for any eventual political settlement with the Taliban – expected to include a requirement that India scale back its presence in Afghanistan. Getting Tehran on board in this rather complicated juggling act — if necessary by helping Iran crack down on Jundollah – would strengthen its hand further.
 
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This won't be any walk in the park, correct. Pakistan has worked hard for it and will need to continue doing so.
Sure, this won't be a walk in the park. It may not be a walk
anywhere at all.
I suspect there is more to it than meets the eye.
 
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