A sincere and serious question to Indian right wingers here on PDF

[Azadkashmir]

I have too many things to say about Jinnah too, but I'd rather not stoop to your level and just report your post.

jinnah eating pork is that the one.

 

[StraightShooter]

jinnah eating pork is that the one.

Jinnah, the founder of Pakistan wanted desperately to join the Freemasons. Jinnah was a Khoja Ismaili by birth, which means his spiritual leader i.e. Imam was the Agha Khan. In those days, it was Sir Sultan Muhammad Shah Agha Khan. Again interestingly enough, the Agha Khan of that time was a member of the Grand Lodge of India A.F. & A.M. (Bombay).

During his teenage years Jinnah had gone to the U.K. for higher studies. And he graduated with distiction from Lincoln's Inn, later to be called to the bar at 11 Kings Bench Walk during his stay at Hampstead. Jinnah, while still in the U.K., had also eagerly joined the notorious "Fabian Society", a reformist-Socialist party whose members included Freemasons George Bernard Shaw and Annie Besant, to name a few. In fact, the official Theosophical Order of Service in Pakistan records that Jinnah was so deeply inspired and influenced by Besant that he called her "Amma".

Jinnah, then, was struggling to get Dadabhoy Naoroji elected as an MP at Central Finsbury. Naoroji was not only an orthodox Parsi priest ("Athurman") but also had written various volumes of work on Zoroastrian history and wisdom. He was also a Freemason, member of both Lodge Southern Brotherhood No. 3311 E.C. and the Lodge South Cannanore No. 234.

After returning to India with his Barristership, Jinnah became an apprentice in a Parsi(Zoarastrian) law firm of Jamshed Kanga. Jinnah distinguished himself as an excellent lawyer. He also became a member of India's Central Legislative Council(Assembly) in 1912, and eloquently espoused the cause of women's education!

Jinnah’s repeated links with the Zoroastrians of India is also interesting. His wife Rattanbai was a Parsi who had converted to Islam before marriage. The man whom Jinnah helped for a long time was a Parsi intellectual (Dadabhoy). And it was Jinnah’s own daughter Dina who had married Dinshaw Wadia, the son of a renowned Parsi industrialist of India (Bombay Dyeing fame).

In the days after India's Imperial Capital was shifted New Delhi in 1911, Jinnah petitoned a Freemasonry Lodge in Bombay for a membership. Earlier in the years 1907 or in 1909 he had unsuccessfully petitoned the same fraternity and was not considered. But in 1911, Jinnah's petition was black balled! That meant, effectively he could not, more or less, ever seek a membership of any those fraternities. These fraternity houses in those days were segregated for Europeans. Hindus, Parsis, Muslims and Indian Christians could not sit in the same house with Whites.

Jinnah believed that it was an Indian Hindu member (either B.G. Tilak or Ranade or Sir Chimman Lal Setalvad or Bhulabhai Desai) who had black balled his membership, but it was actually a Parsi gentlemen, a Tata or Kanga. Jinnah went to his grave with this 'grave Hindu insult'. It was only when the records (minutes of the meeting) of this fraternity house, was made public did the truth came out. Jinnah's only offspring, now a non muslim and her billionaire son who live in Bombay have this piece of paper from the fraternity house, of which Jinnah's grandson is a member.

If someone asks was Jinnah a Freemason? The answer is NO. But the truth is, he tried hard to become one and was blackballed. That is the ultimate truth.

The founder of Pakistan wanted to desperately become a Freemason, yet today Freemasonry is banned in Pakistan and many other Islamic nations.

 

[dreamer4eva]

His nationality is likely Indian. I've met such Pakistanis too, who can't appreciate anything good in Pakistan. Granted, both countries are places where half the educated population would rather immigrate and leave, but progress should be heralded.

Thing is Chinese don't hide their nationality. Made a thread on this and other nation's paid members in the Member's section. The Chinese belief is rooted in the superiority of the Chinese nation and their leader to all other nations. Thus, they don't try to put down any other country, they just try to prove they're better.

Don't agree with your Chinese comment, here in west, Chinese always use the Christian names and never use their real first name. Which kinds of contradictory to being proud Chinese. In almost all cases David, Kevin, Mark, Carol, Steph and Steve are extensively used , and almost never, use their original first names.

 

[wiseone2]

Don't agree with your Chinese comment, here in west, Chinese always use the Christian names and never use their real first name. Which kinds of contradictory to being proud Chinese. In almost all cases David, Kevin, Mark, Carol, Steph and Steve are extensively used , and almost never, use their original first names.

it is practical way of approaching life in the West

What kind of India would you like?

That of Gandhi or Godse?

https://twitter.com/x/status/887225371929620480

There is only one Gandhi. It is foolish to try to imitate Gandhi because he is one of a kind of person. His understanding of politics and statecraft was naive.

 

[StraightShooter]

Don't agree with your Chinese comment, here in west, Chinese always use the Christian names and never use their real first name. Which kinds of contradictory to being proud Chinese. In almost all cases David, Kevin, Mark, Carol, Steph and Steve are extensively used , and almost never, use their original first names.

it is practical way of approaching life in the West

It is Chinese government's policy that all Chinese leaving abroad select a Christian first name.

This part of Chinese government's espionage strategy.

 

[wiseone2]

It is Chinese government's policy that all Chinese leaving abroad select a Christian first name.

This part of Chinese government's espionage strategy.

silly strategy

 

[dreamer4eva]

it is practical way of approaching life in the West

I understand that, however, almost all Indians and Pakistanis retain their original names. My argument is, being proud of who you are, and then choosing a Christian name.

 

[wiseone2]

I understand that, however, almost all Indians and Pakistanis retain their original names. My argument is, being proud of who you are, and then choosing a Christian name.

for Chinese Christian religion does not replace their cultural identity
there are a lot of Chinese churches in the West run by Chinese immigrants

 

[dreamer4eva]

for Chinese Christian religion does not replace their cultural identity
there are a lot of Chinese churches in the West run by Chinese immigrants

Its not about changing their cultural identity or changing their religion, but changing their name from Xue to Sam.
Anyway, we are going off topic now so lets agree to disagree and move on

 

[Azadkashmir]

Jinnah, the founder of Pakistan wanted desperately to join the Freemasons. Jinnah was a Khoja Ismaili by birth, which means his spiritual leader i.e. Imam was the Agha Khan. In those days, it was Sir Sultan Muhammad Shah Agha Khan. Again interestingly enough, the Agha Khan of that time was a member of the Grand Lodge of India A.F. & A.M. (Bombay).

During his teenage years Jinnah had gone to the U.K. for higher studies. And he graduated with distiction from Lincoln's Inn, later to be called to the bar at 11 Kings Bench Walk during his stay at Hampstead. Jinnah, while still in the U.K., had also eagerly joined the notorious "Fabian Society", a reformist-Socialist party whose members included Freemasons George Bernard Shaw and Annie Besant, to name a few. In fact, the official Theosophical Order of Service in Pakistan records that Jinnah was so deeply inspired and influenced by Besant that he called her "Amma".

Jinnah, then, was struggling to get Dadabhoy Naoroji elected as an MP at Central Finsbury. Naoroji was not only an orthodox Parsi priest ("Athurman") but also had written various volumes of work on Zoroastrian history and wisdom. He was also a Freemason, member of both Lodge Southern Brotherhood No. 3311 E.C. and the Lodge South Cannanore No. 234.

After returning to India with his Barristership, Jinnah became an apprentice in a Parsi(Zoarastrian) law firm of Jamshed Kanga. Jinnah distinguished himself as an excellent lawyer. He also became a member of India's Central Legislative Council(Assembly) in 1912, and eloquently espoused the cause of women's education!

Jinnah’s repeated links with the Zoroastrians of India is also interesting. His wife Rattanbai was a Parsi who had converted to Islam before marriage. The man whom Jinnah helped for a long time was a Parsi intellectual (Dadabhoy). And it was Jinnah’s own daughter Dina who had married Dinshaw Wadia, the son of a renowned Parsi industrialist of India (Bombay Dyeing fame).

In the days after India's Imperial Capital was shifted New Delhi in 1911, Jinnah petitoned a Freemasonry Lodge in Bombay for a membership. Earlier in the years 1907 or in 1909 he had unsuccessfully petitoned the same fraternity and was not considered. But in 1911, Jinnah's petition was black balled! That meant, effectively he could not, more or less, ever seek a membership of any those fraternities. These fraternity houses in those days were segregated for Europeans. Hindus, Parsis, Muslims and Indian Christians could not sit in the same house with Whites.

Jinnah believed that it was an Indian Hindu member (either B.G. Tilak or Ranade or Sir Chimman Lal Setalvad or Bhulabhai Desai) who had black balled his membership, but it was actually a Parsi gentlemen, a Tata or Kanga. Jinnah went to his grave with this 'grave Hindu insult'. It was only when the records (minutes of the meeting) of this fraternity house, was made public did the truth came out. Jinnah's only offspring, now a non muslim and her billionaire son who live in Bombay have this piece of paper from the fraternity house, of which Jinnah's grandson is a member.

If someone asks was Jinnah a Freemason? The answer is NO. But the truth is, he tried hard to become one and was blackballed. That is the ultimate truth.

The founder of Pakistan wanted to desperately become a Freemason, yet today Freemasonry is banned in Pakistan and many other Islamic nations.

he did make a speech on british economic theory is the decadence of society.

david sassoon married into rothschild, east india company was a rothschild campany and david was the biggest drug dealer ever opium trade. british rothschild empire.

 

[StraightShooter]

he did make a speech on british economic theory is the decadence of society.

david sassoon married into rothschild, east india company was a rothschild campany and david was the biggest drug dealer ever opium trade. british rothschild empire.

Parsis are the Jews of South Asia and Jinnah had close ties with Parsis.

 

[Azadkashmir]

Parsis are the Jews of South Asia and Jinnah had close ties with Parsis.

i agree but jinnah made that speech the western economic theory after that he had to go. balfour declaration says rothschild name but indian government is in alliance with israel which is quite a twist after being looted by rothschild british empire.

 

[wiseone2]

Its not about changing their cultural identity or changing their religion, but changing their name from Xue to Sam.
Anyway, we are going off topic now so lets agree to disagree and move on

what is the deal with names ? Tamillians in Indian changed their names from Ramasamy, Subramanian to Sanskrit first names. Did it change their identity ?

 

[Bilal9]

Gandhi and Godse were both men of their time.

India has - should have - evolved since then!

Hopefully India will become

A modern scientific nation
Maintain and advance its own unique culture and civilization - culture is not static - what was acceptable 50 years ago may not be today
Integrate into the world and contribute to the well being of all mankind
Keep religion or lack of it as a personal matter and superstition out of religion
Maintain its natural environment and resources
Provide equal opportunity to every Indian - whatever be their religion, gender , economic situation to fulfill their personal potential


That last one is the most important .

Oh and nearly forgot - please government find some space on the next shuttle to mars or Venus or wherever ( the farther the better) for this imbecile, pain in the @ss ashok to be sent on a one way trip.

That space shuttle of yours looks like a Papier Mache Pinata. Any pictures available after re-entry or did it burn up completely? Not ready for prime time yet.

Wait - here comes GSLV with his Google search photos....

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2
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And regarding Ashok, where did your vaunted impartiality go all of a sudden?

Can't tolerate anyone with a different point of view??

what is the deal with names ? Tamillians in Indian changed their names from Ramasamy, Subramanian to Sanskrit first names. Did it change their identity ?

I think I will change my name to IlayaRaja.

 

[911]

Why should we follow a particular ideology? Different times have different problems and solutions. Today in India left is way too aggresive so people will obviously fall towards right and the cycle will continue untill everything is in (or near) equilibrium as our country and young population grows older slowly with time .

As for these two person, I will never get a chance to know them personally or their ideologies since I was not born in that era, and I certainly don't want to read hisory books on them which are nothing but perspective and can be totally wrong.


Agree.

Gandhi and Godse were both men of their time.

India has - should have - evolved since then!

Hopefully India will become

A modern scientific nation
Maintain and advance its own unique culture and civilization - culture is not static - what was acceptable 50 years ago may not be today
Integrate into the world and contribute to the well being of all mankind
Keep religion or lack of it as a personal matter and superstition out of religion
Maintain its natural environment and resources
Provide equal opportunity to every Indian - whatever be their religion, gender , economic situation to fulfill their personal potential


That last one is the most important .

Oh and nearly forgot - please government find some space on the next shuttle to mars or Venus or wherever ( the farther the better) for this imbecile, pain in the @ss ashok to be sent on a one way trip.