A Saudi-to-Israel oil pipeline can save the world

[Solomon2]

More fuel for Israeli tanks and AFV's to Kill innocent -

As I pointed out, to discuss this in anything other than a servile fashion Pakistanis need to surmount the enforced biases of their own educators.

Indeed, there was some discussion at the Arab News site a few months ago - sadly I can't find it - about a perestroika-like opening up, which was strongly opposed by a poster who felt that it was better that Muslims continue to suffer terrorism than confess Israel's legitimacy and admit that it and the U.S. weren't primarily responsible for all the present ills afflicting the Muslim World. Note that the contrapositive of a statement is always logically true: by the same logic, if the Muslim world owns up to its faults, then terrorism, too, becomes a thing of the past.

 

[libertycall]

Actually, it's ONLY an ethnic sense. Jews are a people and Judaism is their religion. The tests for citizenship in Israel are descent and religious conversion (which in Judaism is more like adoption). No religious tests means a sharp reduction of conflict between co-relgionists - the poison that killed ancient Israel 2,000 years ago, and what the Islamic World is suffering from today.

A change of course towards good governance, modern Western rights, and a less-centralized government can avoid a future division. What troubles Pakistan's ruling class is that change would sharply limit their own opportunities to game the system to their own relative economic advantage. However, "a rising tide floats all boats": since all will become more wealthy the elite, too, will benefit from a more honest and democratic system.

Unfortunately that will never happen. I recall the last election where the ruling ethnic group delivered their verdict on how 'Islamic' the state is and the way in which it's controlled by one ethnic group by attacking Imran Khan on the basis that he was Jewish because of his Pashtun origin. The youtube clip of that is online and was shown on Pakistani TV whose Urdu channels propagate the most vile racist hatred of Pashtuns in Pakistan--a land which has been Pashtun for thousands of years.

Most Pashtuns/Pathans used to believe that the reason Ayub Khan was attacked by the Urdu speaking group was because he came to power through martial law; now having witnessed the similar way in which Nawaz Sharif has been installed in power via the blessings of members of his own ethnic group whom he has packed into the Pakistani Supreme Court and senior positions in the army, they are convinced it was an ethnic war against Pashtuns/Pathans.

I don't doubt that Pakistan is a few years away from ethnic division straight down the middle!

 

[Solomon2]

Unfortunately that will never happen. I recall the last election -

The job of an elected politician isn't just to reflect and parrot his supporters but make compromises with reality when necessary - that was the failure of Pakistan's politicians in the 1950s, stoked to explosive division in 1970 by a Z.A.B. eager to wield power. Can they learn from experience is the question.

Besides, a lot of power in Pakistan flows from the gun. Elected Pakistani politicians half-see themselves as servants of the military, yes? So with the military grasping the both the domestic and external imperatives for a Pakistan-Israel rapprochement, the politicians may also consent to moving forward.

 

[madmusti]

Israel already lost his chance, they must do this earlier then today, actually the World´s Mouth is looking for China, without China you can do nothing nowadays, even if there is actually some negative rumors.

 

[Falcon29]

As I pointed out, to discuss this in anything other than a servile fashion Pakistanis need to surmount the enforced biases of their own educators.

Indeed, there was some discussion at the Arab News site a few months ago - sadly I can't find it - about a perestroika-like opening up, which was strongly opposed by a poster who felt that it was better that Muslims continue to suffer terrorism than confess Israel's legitimacy and admit that it and the U.S. weren't primarily responsible for all the present ills afflicting the Muslim World. Note that the contrapositive of a statement is always logically true: by the same logic, if the Muslim world owns up to its faults, then terrorism, too, becomes a thing of the past.

No smart people in the region blame US for all the problems there. Only you are saying that. Nobody denies Israel's legitimacy, but first we need to see what makes up Israel. Israel should declare it's borders and end the occupation. Arab states would then be open to open economic/diplomatic ties and have it said it over and over again. This has no relation to terrorism.

 

[Atlanticore]

As I pointed out, to discuss this in anything other than a servile fashion Pakistanis need to surmount the enforced biases of their own educators.

Indeed, there was some discussion at the Arab News site a few months ago - sadly I can't find it - about a perestroika-like opening up, which was strongly opposed by a poster who felt that it was better that Muslims continue to suffer terrorism than confess Israel's legitimacy and admit that it and the U.S. weren't primarily responsible for all the present ills afflicting the Muslim World. Note that the contrapositive of a statement is always logically true: by the same logic, if the Muslim world owns up to its faults, then terrorism, too, becomes a thing of the past.

Palestinian issue is a Global issue, and Human rights voilations by Israel have been recorded by American and UN Human rights groups. This is not something which has been taught by any text book of any Islamic country. White House has long been shedding crocodile tears for Palestinian victims of Israeli Brutal motives. World knows how much US is serious about restoring peace between these two parties but they have pointed out the Israeli Human rights voilations several times. You can Cheer lead Israel as much as you want but don't expect us to seize our support of Peaceful Two State Solution of Israel and Palestine. US was indeed responsible for the problems of few Muslim countries and I guess i don't need to talk about that in detail. There is a solid reason why every Muslim country have more Anti-American sentiments.

 

[T-72M1]

Iran should recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli state and check mate everyone.

 

[Atlanticore]

Iran should recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli state and check mate everyone.

They did in Past but the move didn't served them that well

 

[T-72M1]

They did in Past but the move didn't served them that well

I meant under the current mullah regime, Ayatollahs have a sudden change of heart and throw every complicated alliance in the region into chaos and null and void all ME politics.

 

[Super Falcon]

Pakistan should also establish relations with Israel not accepting the existance of a country that exists is kind of silly

Disagree with you When ALLAH said no jew be a friend of muslim so friendship with israel is out of question

KSA doing blunder over blunder let syria defeated it is KSA royal family next target


Grand solution for Israel to put its puppets as the leaders of those nations it has threat via USA help

Pak 50 percent
Ksa 80 percent
Egypt 110 percent
Iraq 100 percent
Libya 90 percent
Lebnon 100 percent
Iran 50 percent
UAE 20 percent
Qatar 50 percent
Oman 70 percent

Only syria left

KSA will be making biggest blunder of history peace with anyone possible but jew he is so violant and will always betray u

Pre germany is big example they will cancer the roots of nations with their conspiracy

 

[Solomon2]

Palestinian issue is a Global issue, and Human rights voilations by Israel have been recorded by American and UN Human rights groups. This is not something which has been taught by any text book of any Islamic country -

These are accusations which almost always fail to be sustained by fact - but the fact that these have been slanders, not truth, is indeed obscured by the declared policies of Pakistan's education establishment.

 

[Atlanticore]

These are accusations which almost always fail to be sustained by fact - but the fact that these have been slanders, not truth, is indeed obscured by the declared policies of Pakistan's education establishment.

These accusation have failed to sustain by US support who has a bigger stake in UN. Facts are not considered true specially when they are against the state which US has been babysitting for decades. Yankies have bad habit of quoting people inferior infront of them but What would you say about those 34% people of America who think Israel is a aggressor state? Do you also consider them brainwashed? Do you think these are results of Declared policies of America's Education Establishment?

 

[RazorMC]

I'm quite in touch with reality as I still receive news from people on the ground in the areas the Urdu speaking media does not dare to tread either for fear that Raheel Sharif would be unhappy that it goes against his 'all is good' propaganda or because the Pashtuns/Pathans now have as little love for the Urdu speakers as they showed to Pashtun refugees whom the Urdu speakers prevented from entering 'Urdu speaking provinces'.

And no they haven't been opposed to them. I seem to recall Asif Ali Zardari and the MQM got on quite well e.g. Dr Asim Hussain. The dramabazi of MQM being opposed to feudalism was a cover story from back in the day when the MQM wanted money and publicity from leftists around the world.

So you think that MQM represents Urdu-speakers?

Great news you've been receiving. Cheers.

Pakistan's founders and their immediate supporters are the past. Must Pakistanis be slaves to the past?

We take pride in our history and the independence movement, for that is what defines us as a nation: Freedom from slavery and subjucation, discrimination and fear of persecution.

What of Europeans coming over to Palestine to claim it as their "homeland" ?
Must all Israelis succumb to this tradition of occupation?

To discuss this with reason the dogmatic wall of Pakistan's H.E.C. has to be ignored, surmounted, or eliminated, yes?

The HEC is unrelated to Israel's contempt of human rights or are you suggesting that the HEC is the reason behind human rights abuses at the hands of Israeli troops and vigilante movements?

The obvious comparison is Israel-India trade:

Mostly Israel imported textiles and mineral products while exporting machinery, tools, etc. No reason Pakistan can't get a slice of that trade - which in 2010 amounted to $4.7 billion dollars. If Pakistan captures just 20% of that, that's an increase in Pakistan's exports of over 2.5% - trade Pakistan needs if only to maintain (if not increase) the standard of living of its rapidly growing population.

Why compare India's trade with Pakistan's? There's a massive difference in what each imports and exports. Pakistan, unfortunately, is on the lower-end of the global trade and opening up for business with Israel offers no economic incentive.

Relations should be built on trust, mutual respect and cultural integration and business, not for business alone.

There are members who think Pakistan can somehow, almost magically, influence Israel's internal/security policy just by recognizing the state and acting the Godfather. Or perhaps reap economic rewards by trading with Israel while being heavily dependent on foreign remittances. Fallacies all.

 

[libertycall]

Iran should recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli state and check mate everyone.

The only way the Ayatollahs can continue to justify their rule of Iran is on the basis of their messianic religious beliefs. No more messianic sense of mission = Ayatollahs hanging from trees in Tehran as the secularists have their revenge.

Last time the Sunni Kurds, Ahwazis, and Baluchis helped the Ayatollahs seize power from the Shah; I'm quite sure this time they would be on the other side.

 

[SALMAN F]

The only way the Ayatollahs can continue to justify their rule of Iran is on the basis of their messianic religious beliefs. No more messianic sense of mission = Ayatollahs hanging from trees in Tehran as the secularists have their revenge.

Last time the Sunni Kurds, Ahwazis, and Baluchis helped the Ayatollahs seize power from the Shah; I'm quite sure this time they would be on the other side.

the people who did the revolution were the Shiites only
The kurds scumbags were against the revolution
There is no such thing as"ahwazis" that's a Baathists invention