A political solution for Kashmir and lasting peace for India and Pakistan

[Pakistansdefender]

But I am talking of great political, social and economic changes for India too - point# 1 in the OP.

Having the same progressive political system in both countries can lead to a progressive economic system like the ALBA alliance of Latin America and cooperation in other fields like space and marine exploration.



I know and that is why I speak of drastic reduction of armed forces in India-administered Kashmir.

That is a good compromise to start with.



That is one of my arguments. Why would the Indian Establishment of now agree to give Kashmir Valley to Pakistan ? Isn't this why there are a few hundred thousand soldiers stationed there ? I am talking about a compromise solution.

What would reduction in armed forces in iok matter to Pakistan, If that area was accepted as a part of India by Pakistan? I am not understanding the logic here. Of Pakistan accepts LOC as international border that would eventually give you the right to station you forces there legally.
You talk of forces removal like some very big thing.

That is one of my arguments. Why would the Indian Establishment of now agree to give Kashmir Valley to Pakistan ? Isn't this why there are a few hundred thousand soldiers stationed there ? I am talkin

That is what Indian establishment was not able to understand for 7 dacades.
First after the creation of Pakistan, when ever we ask for kashmir, the return was an attack on Pakistan Union.
In early days attacks from Afghanistan, leaders supported by Afghanistan and India created havoc. Other issue. No problem we have learn to live that and our kashmir resolve strengthened.
Then you break of half of Pakistan. There was no need for it. Indian establishment thought that this would break our resolve for kashmir. If you have not crossed that red line, there would be far less betrayal sentiment in pakistan, but you did it.
And it has not stopped the pakistani resolve if anything it grew in intensity.
Then for the last 10 years we suffered Indian sponsored terrorism. The ajit doval doctrine. That the freedom fighters in kashmir are from Pakistan so we send terrorist in pakistan through Afghanistan that would kill children in schools and every single innocent human. It was like civil War.
We even survive that. No country in the world survive that. And even that has not crushed our resolve for kashmir.
Neither 9 lakh forces can crush the resolve of kashmiris.
What indians need to understand this by consolidating Pakistan in a way which satisfied them while controlling larger part of iok would be of much greater value to india then Pakistan.
India is too big. You seriously have 1 enemy in the region. If you make them your friends you really have no danger to your soverenity. India is simply too big. Valley is like nothing to India. It just like an ego problem. We could then form a union of South Asian countries.
India would have to spend 1000 times less in defence and so do we.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

We could then form a union of South Asian countries.

Tell me sunshine. We already had a "union" under the British Raj before 1947. Why were millions killed in partition. Wars fought? Kind of sounds absurd. You break a plate and then glue it together?

 

[Kamikaze Pilot]

Tell me sunshine. We already had a "union" under the British Raj before 1947. Why were millions killed in partition. Wars fought? Kind of sounds absurd. You break a plate and then glue it together?

But it will happen unwittingly. It's inevitable as trade increases. Neighbours make natural trading partners. And the trade will evolve into union.

- PRTP GWD

 

[Indus Pakistan]

But it will happen unwittingly. It's inevitable as trade increases.

Agreed. But who with? Pakistan is a pivotal country on borders of West Asia, Eurasia, China, India. So over long march of time Pakistan could -

• trade pulls west, north to Iran, Turkey, Afghanistan, Central Asia trading block with China as associate
• trade pulls east to India etc forming a trading block with China as associate

Which way it goes depends which time resolves first -

• when or if Kashmir issue is resolved ~ goes east to India
• when or if Afghanistan, Iran and the Pakistan relish for political Islam is resolved and secularism takes hold in which case trade goes west and north to Iran, Turkey, Central Asia.
  
  

 

[Rafi]

But it will happen unwittingly. It's inevitable as trade increases. Neighbours make natural trading partners. And the trade will evolve into union.

- PRTP GWD

No chance, there is more chance of the British Raj returning.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

If it goes east to India then it would establish that 1947 was a terrible mistake by Muslim League and Nehru/Congress were correct in their opposition to Pakistan. It would in effect recreate Raj v2.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

If it goes east to India then it would establish that 1947 was a terrible mistake by Muslim League and Nehru/Congress were correct in their opposition to Pakistan. It would in effect recreate Raj v2.

Dehli will be made Capital of Pakistan and we will get back Western UP as Quaid wanted with Urdu as national Language. Racists and Secularists will go to hell

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Dehli will be made Capital of Pakistan and we will get back Western UP as Quaid wanted with Urdu as national Language. Racists and Secularists will go to hell

Oh gawd. And 1.2 billion Hindus will drown in the Ganga. You ran away from them. Don't forget that. Lynch victims can only live in delusions ...

 

[Pakistansdefender]

Tell me sunshine. We already had a "union" under the British Raj before 1947. Why were millions killed in partition. Wars fought? Kind of sounds absurd. You break a plate and then glue it together?

By that I mean saarc type forums. Not a union. Please don't misunderstand me.

 

[Laozi]

Well, should India go to war ? Because that is the only other current solution apart from the current status quo.

Pakistan has been fighting a covert war since 1980's and was on the verge of success many a times.

They are openly supporting the militancy in local media and on the international forums it becomes a human right issue where India is the oppressive and "occupying" force.

"Kashmir Banega Pakistan" narrative is solidly imbibed in every Pakistani mindset. Pakistanis will not rest and there will be no peace in the region till such narrative remains. India can part with Kashmir to buy peace but this will have many repercussions.

One option for India is to recreate a 1971 like situation where Pakistanis forget Kashmir fearing the immense cost that they have to bear. Only such fear will make Pakistanis realize that pursuing this narrative is not worthwhile at all

From what I little I know, Imran Khan wants to turn Pakistan into a 'Riyasat e Madina' welfare state that imitates the city of Madina during the early years of Islam.

Perhaps he can try to convince the Pakistani military to endorse a peace proposal such as mine.

IK has labeled Modi a fascist. Therefore there is no chance of any dialogue between the two great leaders. Unless of course IK decides to take his trademark U-Turn.

Therefore your proposal needs to wait till there is a change of regime in either of the two countries

 

[TheGreatMaratha]

Simple solution is for India to accept Pakistani Kashmir and for Pakistan to accept Indian Kashmir. Win win for both countries. People of Indian Kashmir should be allowed to migrate to Pakistan Kashmir and vice versa.

 

[Naofumi]

Tell me sunshine. We already had a "union" under the British Raj before 1947. Why were millions killed in partition. Wars fought? Kind of sounds absurd. You break a plate and then glue it together?

European Union (actually it's precursors) were formed after the most brutal war of the century, people learn and realise mistakes.

Agreed. But who with? Pakistan is a pivotal country on borders of West Asia, Eurasia, China, India. So over long march of time Pakistan could -

• trade pulls west, north to Iran, Turkey, Afghanistan, Central Asia trading block with China as associate
• trade pulls east to India etc forming a trading block with China as associate

Which way it goes depends which time resolves first -

• when or if Kashmir issue is resolved ~ goes east to India
• when or if Afghanistan, Iran and the Pakistan relish for political Islam is resolved and secularism takes hold in which case trade goes west and north to Iran, Turkey, Central Asia.
  

What is to trade with Afghanistan? Opium? Dry fruits? What from Central Asia? The only reasonable nation is Iran but hey, even Iran can't compete with a market of 1.5 billion.

If it goes east to India then it would establish that 1947 was a terrible mistake by Muslim League and Nehru/Congress were correct in their opposition to Pakistan. It would in effect recreate Raj v2.

Playing devil's advocate, it can be argued that our nations needed time for their religiosity to cool down and become mature and pragmatic in their dealings.

 

[Cliftonite]

European Union (actually it's precursors) were formed after the most brutal war of the century, people learn and realise mistakes.

Playing devil's advocate, it can be argued that our nations needed time for their religiosity to cool down and become mature and pragmatic in their dealings.

We've had 73 years. The religiosity and animosity has spiked. It's an unnatural union. Muslims and Hindus can't exist together.

 

[Naofumi]

@jamahir bhai Your solution is not in touch with ground realities. The main driving force of separatism is religion otherwise we won't have organisation having names like Jaish-e-Mohammad, Hizbul Mujahiddeen etc. You point Kashmiris can be convinced of the Ba'ath system :-

1. Dead wrong, listen Maulana Israr Ahmed's views on socialism, they aren't fools, they know their game.
2. The Ba'ath system is more of a Pan-Arabist Oil running system, not sure if it can work.

Secondly, both sides use Kashmir for political benefit and do a lot of showmanship, the difference between claimed and possible scenarios is mind bogglingly huge. The most sensible is of course being maintain status quo but that would be called as a defeat on both sides, so what's next? A jointly controlled region is the most probable one but a tons of pre-requisites are required for that. Open borders is a good idea but can also be exploited by miscreants, in short a lot of thought restructuring and commitments are required.

We've had 73 years. The religiosity and animosity has spiked. It's an unnatural union. Muslims and Hindus can't exist together.

Let 73 more years to pass, either we will extinguish each other or will form an EU-like union.

 

[Cliftonite]

Why doesn't India give up Kashmir? It's essentially an ego problem. Nothing else. I am just grabbing my popcorn and watching the shit show that is about to take place in India in the next 10 years. The giant Vedic elephant will sink.

Also @jamahir I know you lean left but Baathism was a shit show. It was a sucky ideology and it did nothing for Iraq or Syria. Neither did Gaddafi. In fact much of the present Middle East's problems stem from this ideology.