A political solution for Kashmir and lasting peace for India and Pakistan

[Nilgiri]

Is that anti-national? @Nilgiri

Not really, he is saying he prefers to engage all the good and bad and ugly (or as you put it why engage with the foolish fools in first place) of his country as it comes up, rather than fleeing to another place. You can do things from the other place, but of course you will not be in the thick of it....there no home like home sweet home.

Beta, you will find more generally in no place can you truly live in an ivory tower a whole meaningful and productive life... you have to deal with the foolish inevitably...at very least so they do not take a worse turn to something far worse.

On this forum I refer to it even as exiting the tank to engage on foot. But its just forum shenanigans, the real confrontation and action is for outside, among people of most consequence around you and in immediate surroundings etc.

This place you must be far more selective (imo) to get an idea of the best (and worst) flowers from gardens you will likely never visit at all...forget about being in the thick there.

now I'm Indian.

CNIC ID card snapshot time

 

[Salahuddin Ayyubi]

Not really, he is saying he prefers to engage all the good and bad and ugly (or as you put it why engage with the foolish fools in first place) of his country as it comes up, rather than fleeing to another place. You can do things from the other place, but of course you will not be in the thick of it....there no home like home sweet home.

Beta, you will find more generally in no place can you truly live in an ivory tower a whole meaningful and productive life... you have to deal with the foolish inevitably...at very least so they do not take a worse turn to something far worse.

On this forum I refer to it even as exiting the tank to engage on foot. But its just forum shenanigans, the real confrontation and action is for outside, among people of most consequence around you and in immediate surroundings etc.

This place you must be far more selective (imo) to get an idea of the best (and worst) flowers from gardens you will likely never visit at all...forget about being in the thick there.



CNIC ID card snapshot time

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] bruv don't tempt me, last time I did that the idiot who was arguing with me and calling me indian ran away crying because he knew he got owned and destroyed [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

I'm not gonna lie, I was tempted at first [emoji16][emoji23]

 

[Indus Pakistan]

We saved your ancestors from slavery.

We never asked you to sabve us because we domn't know what slavery means. In our part of PK it was the Sikhs and Hindus would have been enslaved.

But be that as it may why did you NOT free your kith and kin in India instead of running away and hiding under the Sindhi ajraks?

 

[Cliftonite]

We never asked you to sabve us because we domn't know what slavery means. In our part of PK it was the Sikhs and Hindus would have been enslaved.

But be that as it may why did you NOT free your kith and kin in India instead of running away and hiding under the Sindhi ajraks?

And he's back again with the we are Iranian people of the Indus Valley story.

 

[peagle]

They want the same for their non Muslim non Pakistani counterpart.

Non Muslim Pakistanis lament the exploitation of their counterpart in Gujarat and Indian Punjab and how temples get attacked by colonial Delhi regime.

Kashmiri Pandit genocide in Indian occupied Kashmir likewise is a cause for concern for them

Kashmiri Pandit Genocide?

Are you not getting carried away with this? it is another fantasy story concocted by the Indians. Some expelled and some left on their own, yes, but genocide is something that has and is happening to the Kashmiris, not the Pandits. And it happened in Jammu to the Muslims in 1947.

Please read the figures properly, before using such a heavy word.

Nearly 200,000 Muslims massacred in Jammu and many more expelled.
Nearly 100,000 Kashmiris killed and still being massacred.
Around 1,000 Kashmiri Pundits killed, that's not genocide. Indians kill that many Muslims when they go on a picnic.

Over 100,000 were also Massacred in Hyderabad, which was also a genocide.
So please let them peddle their lies, and do not help them by spreading their lies.

 

[El Sidd]

Kashmiri Pandit Genocide?

Are you not getting carried away with this? it is another fantasy story concocted by the Indians. Some expelled and some left on their own, yes, but genocide is something that has and is happening to the Kashmiris, not the Pandits. And it happened in Jammu to the Muslims in 1947.

Please read the figures properly, before using such a heavy word.

Nearly 200,000 Muslims massacred in Jammu and many more expelled.
Nearly 100,000 Kashmiris killed and still being massacred.
Around 1,000 Kashmiri Pundits killed, that's not genocide. Indians kill that many Muslims when they go on a picnic.

Over 100,000 were also Massacred in Hyderabad, which was also a genocide.
So please let them peddle their lies, and do not help them by spreading their lies.

why can't you add the non Muslim atrocities by the Delhi regime?

It's not a paradise for them either in India.

 

[peagle]

why can't you add the non Muslim atrocities by the Delhi regime?

It's not a paradise for them either in India.

What are you on?

This is a discussion regarding a modern age topic, specifically Jammu and Kashmir. Plus, India only came into being in 1947, before that there was a region of India, no nation-state of India, it did not exist, so irrelevant to this discussion. Can you please keep a discussion concentrated and relevant so there can be a sensible conclusion.

Make sensible points or admit you were wrong. Thank you.

 

[El Sidd]

What are you on?

Delhi Regime = Central Indian Union Government

Now what is the problem when someone says the fascist Indian state are indiscriminate in their abuse in Kashmir.

Even 1 life is enough if extinguished unjust

 

[peagle]

Delhi Regime = Central Indian Union Government

Now what is the problem when someone says the fascist Indian state are indiscriminate in their abuse in Kashmir.

Even 1 life is enough if extinguished unjust

Nothing!!!
I agree with you.

You need to improve how you word your arguments. Either you are confused or your words are confusing.
My initial reply was in reference to your assertion that Kashmiri Pandits faced genocide, which is completely false. There was no genocide of Kashmiri Pundits.

You have not understood my reply and keep replying in a confusing manner. With respect, I suggest that you improve on how to build an argument and how to convey your point so it is less confusing.

 

[El Sidd]

Either you are confused or your words are confusing.

and how is this my fault?

My initial reply was in reference to your assertion that Kashmiri Pandits faced genocide, which is completely false. There was no genocide of Kashmiri Pundits.

Do you know any Kashmiri Pandit to suggest it was all fake? They have been displaced, systematically their land and resource taken away from them and are forced to prove their patriotism to India just like the Muslims.

With respect, I suggest that you improve on how to build an argument

How about just carrying the conversation? Not everything is an argument

 

[peagle]

and how is this my fault?



Do you know any Kashmiri Pandit to suggest it was all fake? They have been displaced, systematically their land and resource taken away from them and are forced to prove their patriotism to India just like the Muslims.



How about just carrying the conversation? Not everything is an argument

I do not have time for the likes of you, you do not have a basic level understanding of how to communicate. All you can do is jump from one point to next with no sensible answers.

You are the first person I will block on this forum, god help you develop a brain.

 

[El Sidd]

I do not have time for the likes of you, you do not have a basic level understanding of how to communicate. All you can do is jump from one point to next with no sensible answers.

You are the first person I will block on this forum, god help you develop a brain.

What on Eid now? So haram

 

[Indus Pakistan]

And he's back again with the we are Iranian people of the Indus Valley story.

Better then saying we are circumsized street shitters who ran to the Indus valley from Hindu mobs.

 

[Cliftonite]

Better then saying we are circumsized street shitters who ran to the Indus valley from Hindu mobs.

The entire world has difficulty differentiating between blonde blue eyed Aryan race Iranics of the Indus Valley and we Gangetic 5 foot Dravidian descent street shitters. Perhaps this quality to differentiate is a very rare talent, not everybody has it, much like the ability to see ultraviolet light. Only sons of the Indus delta soil have this unique talent.

Also I'd like to hear how Urdu is a Turkish and Persian language, some even go so far as to say Urdu and Dari are dialects of each other. Any connection to Indo Aryan languages is a lie. Urdu grammar is TOTALLY the same as Turkish and certainly not Punjabi or Gujarati.


Loool get out of this weird wannabe obsession you have with being Huns, Sakhas, Greeks, Turks and Persian. You are through and through South Asian. Nothing to be ashamed of. Your cuisine, your architecture, your clothes, your customs all lie closely with South Asia. And by you I mean Pakistan as a whole.

P.S reality check the Indus valley civilisation was South Asian. Nothing Arab or Turkish about it.

 

[CrazyZ]

A political solution for Kashmir and lasting peace for India and Pakistan
Written by: Jamahir
Category cloud: Opinion, analysis
​

India and Pakistan need to settle the long, sad but frankly immature dispute over Kashmir once and for all. Peacefully and politically. Both have similar social, economic and political problems so any nuanced and generic solution for one country can also be used by the other country. The prescribed solution by the UNO is impractical. As it involves, as far as I understand, India withdrawing military units stationed in India-administered Kashmir and then arranging for a plebiscite there while also accepting the UNO as a mediator. But the Indian Establishment believes, as also its foreign allies, that India-administered Kashmir is primarily a matter internal to India but since Pakistan cannot be wished away the matter should involve both countries settling the matter between themselves, peacefully and politically. But any such settlement should benefit both the countries immediately and in the long term.

Therefore I present one solution as below. The solution is based on Muammar Gaddafi's solution for Kashmir to which I have added some bits.

1. Both countries should adopt the same Progressive political system. Two separate, independent republics but with the same political system, much like what pre-2003 Iraq and Syria were with their same Ba'athist systems. The Progressive political system can be the Direct Democracy Socialism system that governed Libya until the 2011 war. Readers can refer to these pages to understand how this system works. This system is called the Third Universal Theory aka Jamahiriya theory. In India, a form of Direct Democracy called Swaraj is being implemented in Delhi by the ruling AAP party and is also being forwarded by the Swaraj Abhiyan movement and there is no reason why it cannot be extended to Pakistan as well.

2. Let Indian-administered Kashmir and Pakistani-administered Kashmir remain with their respective countries.

3. Convert the LoC into an International Border that is accessible for trade, tourism and family visits.

All this will make the separatists in India-administered Kashmir to understand that their desire to join Pakistan-administered Kashmir is unnecessary because both countries will have become the same, politically.

Furthermore, with separatist militancy reduced in Indian-administered Kashmir, what will remain is regressive religious militancy or activism which can be controlled and removed with social support by progressives among the local population. The side effect will also be a drastic removal of the current military force which will lead to more goodwill for the peace project.

I speak of the troubles and concerns of Muslims in Indian Kashmir and I will also speak of the troubles and concerns of the Kashmiri Pundit refugees. There must be something like Nelson Mandela's Truth and Reconciliation Commission. I would like the refugee Kashmiri Pandits to be allowed to return back to the Valley.

The next step would be resumption of the Aman Ki Asha peace mission as well as resumption of food and clothing festivals to be organized in both countries.

If not for such a solution, how long would the Establishments of India and Pakistan keep up with this cross-border hate? For another 50 years? 100? Until a reformed UNO decides to send in a military arbitrator force? And would the people of both countries not like the money and other resources spent by their respective militaries in positioning against each other to be spent on making each others countries a welfare state where there are things like high quality free medical system like in Cuba?

An important point is that the given solution will not only benefit the Kashmiri's but also will bring progress to India and Pakistan - socially, economically and politically.

Lastly, to extend a point about direct democracy socialism, It worked in Libya and it is being implemented in Venezuela ( the consejos comunales - communal councils ). Two different kinds of countries, ethnically and geographically. No reason why India and Pakistan cannot adopt the system given the fact that both countries have so much in common. And just Direct Democracy without the socialism part has been the system in Switzerland for long.

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Disclaimer: The post only represents writer's own point of views. The post do not represent point of views of Pakistan Defence management. Pakistan Defence Team will not be responsible for disagreements.
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Credits: The post is written by Jamahir, India. The proof reading and some other editing has been done by Think Tank Analyst, Forcetrip. The final formatting, editing and picture uploading is done by Slav Defence., Think Tank Vice Chairman.

At one time long ago I thought that their might be hope for for Indo-Pak peace and some sort of Kashmir settlement. At this time attitudes have hardened on both sides and peace is unlikely, especially with BJP hardliners.

The only possibility for a peaceful settlement in my opinion is that Kashmir me made into a neutral zone with some sort of shared Indo-Pak-Local Kashmiri joint administration. Neither side wins or loses in this arrangement. Pakistan pledges to reduce militancy and India removes its military and lock down of Kashmir. Water rights of the Indus river would remain as per the Indus river treaty.

This is a logical compromise, that massively reduces the risk of miscalculation and nuclear exchange (which is the primary flaw of status quo that India favors).....but not every one is logical. Hardliners on both sides will oppose any peace in my opinion.