A new economic system for the near-future

[Soumitra]

In the coming days I will answer to those who asked me things in this thread but at the moment I will link to an article from the South Indian newspaper Deccan Herald. The article is called A compelling call for a Universal Basic Income.

Some lefty loonie nut job saying something doesn't make it true. If it was such a compelling case why didn't people vote in Congress when they offered it.

The poor people in the country, those you continuously cry about - the suicidal farmers, the migrants etc were given a bribe of 72000 an year and they rejected it because unlike you, people have self respect.

Just because lefty loonies like you want to live for free on taxpayers money doesn't mean others do.

Perhaps three billion people in the world do jobs or are in political office. Are they all geniuses who have contributed to making the world a peaceful one without wars and injustices ?

People who work don't do it to make world peaceful or to eliminate poverty or any other shit that you imagine.

They work to earn money so that they and there families are taken care of. Nothing more, nothing less.

And talking about mass-murder should we talk of India ?

I openly challenge you. Bring it on

 

[jamahir]

The poor people in the country, those you continuously cry about - the suicidal farmers, the migrants etc were given a bribe of 72000 an year and they rejected it because unlike you, people have self respect.

What nonsense ! You are saying that farmers who committed suicide because of socio-economic reasons, actually rejected money that you say the Congress offered ? And you are saying that committing suicide especially for socio-economic reasons is a matter of self-respect ? Now that is a crooked culture.

But what exactly is this 72,000 that you say the Congress offered ?

I openly challenge you. Bring it on

Gujarat 2002, Bombay 1992-93.

People who work don't do it to make world peaceful or to eliminate poverty or any other shit that you imagine.

Please don't project your own "cost-benefit analysis" thinking upon all humans.

 

[Soumitra]

What nonsense ! You are saying that farmers who committed suicide because of socio-economic reasons, actually rejected money that you say the Congress offered ? And you are saying that committing suicide is a matter of self-respect ?

But what exactly is this 72,000 that you say the Congress offered ?

Serious question - are you a bot?

You seem to have 0 knowledge of Indian political affairs

You claimed to like Arvind Kejriwal but didn't know he offered free electricity and water

You don't know that congress offered 72000 an year to poor people as part of the nyaay scheme

You keep on recycling the same points again and again whatever be the topic of discussion

The same migrant, farmers suicide, students suicide vertical farming, etc

Only a robot will think that living without money is practical

Gujarat 2002, Bombay 1992-93.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communist_regimes

 

[jamahir]

Serious question - are you a bot?

You seem to have 0 knowledge of Indian political affairs

You claimed to like Arvind Kejriwal but didn't know he offered free electricity and water

You don't know that congress offered 72000 an year to poor people as part of the nyaay scheme

I am not much interested in the Indian system of five-yearly elections. Too boring.

You keep on recycling the same points again and again whatever be the topic of discussion

The same migrant, farmers suicide, students suicide vertical farming, etc

Right, you keep pretending that 300,00+ farmers didn't commit suicide just in a span of 10 years. That's a world record. This couldn't have happened in USA even.

About student suicides, yeah, keep burdening the youth by forcing them to the point of suicide, forcing them to learn computer engineering just because it has "more scope" but no think in the process that they could have been better film technicians instead of mediocre computer or civil engineers.

About VF, that is the future of agriculture.

Only a robot will think that living without money is practical

Tell me, when you worship Lakshmi, the goddess of money / wealth, do you consider that she is being cruel and evil to a lot of people who suffer because of lack of money ? So why are you worshiping an evil goddess ? A simple, logical question. I am not poking fun here.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communist_regimes

Don't deflect.

But... Bengal famine, Iraq war 2003, anti-communist massacre in Indonesia in the 1960s ( up to a million murdered ), Libya 2011 ( tens of thousands )...

 

[Soumitra]

I am not much interested in the Indian system of five-yearly elections. Too boring.

I am sure you will prefer a dictator for life like Gaddafi. Unfortunately for you, you live in India and it will not happen.

Tell me, when you worship Lakshmi, the goddess of money / wealth, do you consider that she is being cruel and evil to a lot of people who suffer because of lack of money ? So why are you worshiping an evil goddess ? A simple, logical question. I am not poking fun here.

No I Don't

 

[jamahir]

I am sure you will prefer a dictator for life like Gaddafi. Unfortunately for you, you live in India and it will not happen.

I prefer the people ( an evolved people ) rule themselves. I neither like dictators nor single party systems nor two party systems nor multi-party systems.

No I Don't

Then leave this worshiping of money. It is an artificial system that has to be controlled. As I say "Money should be facility, not necessity".

 

[Soumitra]

Then leave this worshiping of money. It is an artificial system that has to be controlled. As I say "Money should be facility, not necessity".

Capitalism is good. Money is God.

 

[jamahir]

Capitalism is good. Money is God.

If money is God then why did you say you don't worship it ?

 

[Soumitra]

Your so called economic theory has so many holes. It has been decimated left right and center.

Try to answer the questions in a non utopian fashion

If money is God then why did you say you don't worship it ?

I didn't say I don't worship it.

I said Lakshmi is not cruel because some losers don't have money.

Income inequality is the way of life

 

[jamahir]

@TheGreatMaratha, have you come across this thread of mine ?

 

[jamahir]

@M.Bison, the OP.

 

[TheGreatMaratha]

@TheGreatMaratha, have you come across this thread of mine ?

Will check it tomorrow.

 

[TheGreatMaratha]

All basic needs ( housing, water, basic food, essential clothes, electricity, healthcare, communication, mass-public transport, legal service which will be rare anyway in such a system, etc ) being for free and the remaining things ( non-basic food, clothing accessories, hair styling, gym membership, transportation by taxi, the visit to the restaurant or tea-house, permission for house party, etc ) being a paid-for thing via an evolved money system like the "Social Credits" system being implemented in China.

Who will build all those houses, do farming, work in hospitals, etc? What would be the criteria for who works where? Individual choice or will the government interfere even there?

Let's assume that the Social Credits for each person will be 20 at the start of every month. He will be able to obtain a few services with these Credits. He will need to do his designated regular job and any possible extra community service to increase the credits by say 5. Not doing certain things will decrease his Credits. Doing an anti-social thing will get him punished by jail or non-Credit community service depending on the severity. Importantly, the gained Credits do not add to the next month's Credits and make the person a "richer" man. They start fresh from 20.

Since everyone is being provided the same number of credits regardless of the effort they put in, people won't put in as much effort as they usually do. They'll stall work and the work efficiency would go down. Additionally, people will prefer doing some menial tasks where there isn't too much of stress because of the same credits being provided at the end of the day. Also, the government will be having too much of control over things which looks too intrusive. Which kind of a government will control all these things? Will it be a 1-party system? If yes, then there will be a risk of too much of power falling into wrong hands. If there's a 2-party system, what will be the election manifesto to fight elections? Providing more number of credits? What you propose is too rudimentary actually.

Humans live based on motivation, goals, etc. Since there won't be any goal as such for many people, they will lack the will to live.

 

[PeaceGen]

Hello, the below idea has been brewing in my head for some time and it came up during recent discussions with @Naofumi and @Soumitra in different threads. I present a new economic system that is needed especially in countries like India and Pakistan where old regressive social mores meet modern capitalist ideas to produce a toxic socio-economic culture where especially lot of the middle class does not look at the socio-economic disparities and injustices that happen because of an uneven money system.

My system is not entirely money-less but more an evolution and is as thus :

All basic needs ( housing, water, basic food, essential clothes, electricity, healthcare, communication, mass-public transport, legal service which will be rare anyway in such a system, etc ) being for free and the remaining things ( non-basic food, clothing accessories, hair styling, gym membership, transportation by taxi, the visit to the restaurant or tea-house, permission for house party, etc ) being a paid-for thing via an evolved money system like the "Social Credits" system being implemented in China.

Let's assume that the Social Credits for each person will be 20 at the start of every month. He will be able to obtain a few services with these Credits. He will need to do his designated regular job and any possible extra community service to increase the credits by say 5. Not doing certain things will decrease his Credits. Doing an anti-social thing will get him punished by jail or non-Credit community service depending on the severity. Importantly, the gained Credits do not add to the next month's Credits and make the person a "richer" man. They start fresh from 20.

This way there is no economic disparity, all get the basic necessities without suffering and anybody say with a penchant for stylish clothing and personal grooming will have to contribute harder to the community.

The system can be applied in three ways :

1. There already are economic unions such as the EU, ALBA and CIS. My proposal is just an advancement on these.

2. An individual country can adopt it while at the same time work with the accepted international trading currency, the American Dollar, because the country's means of production will have been nationalized and the goods and services will be exported by the system and not by individual private businesses.

3. The proposal can be later presented at international offline forums such as the UNO. There is no rational reason why a country cannot adopt it. Please see my signature below my post.

This is a work in progress. I plan to speak of this to various progressive movements in India at the right time.

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@RealNapster @Joe Shearer @ps3linux @Indos @Moonlight @Iltutmish @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan others.

i wonder, how would high-end technological products be paid for, if the end-users are not allowed to save up credits?

 

[jamahir]

i wonder, how would high-end technological products be paid for, if the end-users are not allowed to save up credits?

Good point.

From my understanding of capitalist economics, a product or service is priced for its raw material usage, for the manual labor it takes to be made and for the profit margin that the company or group put in to get back something extra for the effort they put in to create the product or service.

In socialist application we can make item design open source, employ neighborhood-level 3D Printers to turn the design into product and price the product reasonably to fit well within a month's credits.