A Muslim majority Indus Valley Civilization?

[BelligerentPacifist]

......

You've seem to have let yourself fall to completely stow your mind away while you write. I know you have to potential to be so much better at its use, and I'd like you to try. You could be so much better than at least I am, and I'd love the fact that you do become so.

 

[jbond197]

What the ET blogger cannot fit into their Islam-averse mind, is that the IV might have been Budhhist at a time, much of it did become Hindu eventually, and later, Muslim. So, why is it difficult to accept for them that it is TODAY a muslim-majority region, and why do they have to reason that it isn't because a few thousand years ago it wasn't?

I'm almost convinced the IVC fell doing the same as the author - nitpicking while the Indus ran dry. Foreboding conclusion really - the Ivc is at the end of the line once more.

Whoa!! Genius, Buddhism took birth much later than Hinduism and Islam obviously came into existence much later. Also Buddhism as a religion was started by a born Hindu itself and is many ways it is a part of Hinduism itself with a different philosophy..

Anyways, the point is Buddhism didn't even existed at the times of IVC.

 

[INDIC]

Geographically the IVC mostly revolves around what is today Pakistan. I don't claim Islamic history from your land & I disagree with the Pakistanis who do that. I also disagree with those Pakistanis that claim the Arab or Ottoman caliphates as their own.

Pakistan can easily form an identity unique to itself on the basis of both ethnicity & religion.

Oh really!!! then how Urdu is a official language. You guys are talking about Indus civilization, isn't Urdu is the part of Gangetic civilization, why Pakistanis made a Gangetic language as the official language of Pakistan.

Like you are saying Majority of IVC fell into Pakistan, isn't same true for Mughals. You have only Lahore as the heritage of Mughal Empire.

As I already told you majority of Pakistanis have no proudness of IVC(I have read about it at many places), you guys are here to piss off Indians from shared heritage for which you feel no proudness.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Sultan Bashiruddin Mahmood

Mahmood has published papers concerning djinni, which are described in the Qur'an as beings made of fire. He has proposed that djinni could be tapped to solve the energy crisis. I think that if we develop our souls, we can develop communication with them, Mr. Bashiruddin Mahmood said about djinni in The Wall Street Journal in an interview in 1988. Every new idea has its opponents, he added. But there is no reason for this controversy over Islam and science because there is no conflict between Islam and science​

Just curious: how is the concept of Djinnis 'in perfect harmony with science'.

Science is evolving day by day... and as of right now it cannt explain several phenomenas... but if science cant prove it or underastand it ....does it mean it doesnt exist? doesnt every religion believe in the paranormal? just take hinduism for example... Lord Ganesh is a child with an elephants head... Lord Hanuman is a monkey? what does science think of them?

 

[INDIC]

What the ET blogger cannot fit into their Islam-averse mind, is that the IV might have been Budhhist at a time, much of it did become Hindu eventually, and later, Muslim. So, why is it difficult to accept for them that it is TODAY a muslim-majority region, and why do they have to reason that it isn't because a few thousand years ago it wasn't?

I'm almost convinced the IVC fell doing the same as the author - nitpicking while the Indus ran dry. Foreboding conclusion really - the Ivc is at the end of the line once more.

Where you learnt such history.

 

[BelligerentPacifist]

What I find amusing is how can Pakistanis claim/be proud of the following if the only criteria to claiming history is supposedly Geographic location. These people had nothing to do with Pakistan geographically:
...

Might 'some Pakistanis' have been a more appropriate and sensible phrase to use?

FYI, you, just like many of us pakistanis and us Muslims, haven't understood Islam yet. It doesn't demand you to completely give up any other set of identities, nor cultures etc. This allows us to be happy being canadian, of Indian-origin, defense-fans etc all at the same time.

All misinfo in my posts is from my shortcomings. And God alone knows best.

 

[indian_jigar]

As for your first point, I don't care. We can form a nation on whatever damn basis we want.

As for your second point; hahahahaha, the ancient Egyptian civilization's descendants are modern Egyptians. Hindus are the followers of a religion, they are not a race. The Sub-Continent consists of a variety of different people.

1) It might not matter to you, but it matters in the context of IVC because you made a nation on your supposed "hate/difference/ dissimilarity/distinctness" to Hindus and now you are trying to claim Hindu civilization. You guys made a nation on pretty much "Hey we are completely different from Hindus", so now stop claiming IVC.

2) Firstly, you seem to be confusing civilization with race. Look up what those two words mean in a dictionary.

No one follows ancient Egyptian civilization today, its extinct. Lets say if not everyone converted to Islam in Egypt, dont you think the Egyptians who did not convert to Islam would have a stronger claim to ancient Egyptian civilization compared to the ones who did convert? That is exactly the case in the IVC context.

 

[manofwar]

What the ET blogger cannot fit into their Islam-averse mind, is that the IV might have been Budhhist at a time, much of it did become Hindu eventually, and later, Muslim. So, why is it difficult to accept for them that it is TODAY a muslim-majority region, and why do they have to reason that it isn't because a few thousand years ago it wasn't?

I'm almost convinced the IVC fell doing the same as the author - nitpicking while the Indus ran dry. Foreboding conclusion really - the Ivc is at the end of the line once more.

The IVC ended much before Islam was even thought of. As for Buddhism, by the time it began expanding westward, IVC had declined and the power and culture had shifted east to the Gangetic civilization.

 

[jbond197]

Really? that's what you think of our father Aadam 3alayhissalaam?

Current Muslims' forefathers would be everything - Mumins (believers), Muslims (loosely part of the believing group, or at least not hostile to it), non-Muslims (well, not Muslim!) (and this is what most people might be in today's world, as possibly in yesterday's), and finally, Kaafirs (who cover up innate human nature and turn away after recognizing the truth).

This is the problem with you people. Becoming a salesman of your religion and selling it's truthfulness to one and all..

Why should and how would people take your words or the words written in a book as some kind of authority? If there is any god and he created all humanity then he would at least not differentiate it's own creations by calling them Kaafir/Non Kaafir etc.

Don't try to force yourself on everyone...

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Oh really!!! then how Urdu is a official language. You guys are talking about Indus civilization, isn't Urdu is the part of Gangetic civilization, why Pakistanis made a Gangetic language as the official language of Pakistan.

Like you are saying Majority of IVC fell into Pakistan, isn't same true for Mughals. You have only Lahore as the heritage of Mughal Empire.

As I already told you majority of Pakistanis have no proudness of IVC(I have read about it at many places), you guys are here to piss off Indians from shared heritage for which you feel no proudness.

No urdu was born in the "muslim courts" of sultans in north.... not ur gangetic plains.. and is associated with muslims of the northern states!

You sir have very well described the difference between you and us. This is the difference between Pakistanis and Indians regarding IVC.

Indians claim IVC because we are the direct continuity of IVC, we speak Sanskrit and follow Hinduism. We claim IVC because thats our civilization in the present day.

Pakistanis claim IVC because IVC is something that the world admires, and you guys hope that it gives you some respite from the terrorism image you Muslims have built in this world for yourselves.

As for direct descendants, the direct descendants of IVC were Hindus in Pakistan like my ancestors, most of whom moved to Pakistan after Partition.

Since when did hindus become a race or an ethnicity... i think common logic is not very common in india...

Oh really!!! then how Urdu is a official language. You guys are talking about Indus civilization, isn't Urdu is the part of Gangetic civilization, why Pakistanis made a Gangetic language as the official language of Pakistan.

Like you are saying Majority of IVC fell into Pakistan, isn't same true for Mughals. You have only Lahore as the heritage of Mughal Empire.

As I already told you majority of Pakistanis have no proudness of IVC(I have read about it at many places), you guys are here to piss off Indians from shared heritage for which you feel no proudness.

No urdu was born in the "muslim courts" of sultans in north.... not ur gangetic plains.. and is associated with muslims of the northern states!

You sir have very well described the difference between you and us. This is the difference between Pakistanis and Indians regarding IVC.

Indians claim IVC because we are the direct continuity of IVC, we speak Sanskrit and follow Hinduism. We claim IVC because thats our civilization in the present day.

Pakistanis claim IVC because IVC is something that the world admires, and you guys hope that it gives you some respite from the terrorism image you Muslims have built in this world for yourselves.

As for direct descendants, the direct descendants of IVC were Hindus in Pakistan like my ancestors, most of whom moved to Pakistan after Partition.

Since when did hindus become a race or an ethnicity... i think common logic is not very common in india...

Oh really!!! then how Urdu is a official language. You guys are talking about Indus civilization, isn't Urdu is the part of Gangetic civilization, why Pakistanis made a Gangetic language as the official language of Pakistan.

Like you are saying Majority of IVC fell into Pakistan, isn't same true for Mughals. You have only Lahore as the heritage of Mughal Empire.

As I already told you majority of Pakistanis have no proudness of IVC(I have read about it at many places), you guys are here to piss off Indians from shared heritage for which you feel no proudness.

No urdu was born in the "muslim courts" of sultans in north.... not ur gangetic plains.. and is associated with muslims of the northern states!

 

[BelligerentPacifist]

Where you learnt such history.

I've seen the meditation-seating capsules in MoenJoDaro, and told they were used by Buddhist monks.

You should come visit some time too. Just take the current political tension or whatever it is out of your mind and come witness the history and the people you might have ancient links with.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

You sir have very well described the difference between you and us. This is the difference between Pakistanis and Indians regarding IVC.

Indians claim IVC because we are the direct continuity of IVC, we speak Sanskrit and follow Hinduism. We claim IVC because thats our civilization in the present day.

Pakistanis claim IVC because IVC is something that the world admires, and you guys hope that it gives you some respite from the terrorism image you Muslims have built in this world for yourselves.

As for direct descendants, the direct descendants of IVC were Hindus in Pakistan like my ancestors, most of whom moved to Pakistan after Partition.

Since when did hindus become a race or an ethnicity... i think common logic is not very common in india...

Oh really!!! then how Urdu is a official language. You guys are talking about Indus civilization, isn't Urdu is the part of Gangetic civilization, why Pakistanis made a Gangetic language as the official language of Pakistan.

Like you are saying Majority of IVC fell into Pakistan, isn't same true for Mughals. You have only Lahore as the heritage of Mughal Empire.

As I already told you majority of Pakistanis have no proudness of IVC(I have read about it at many places), you guys are here to piss off Indians from shared heritage for which you feel no proudness.

No urdu was born in the "muslim courts" of sultans in north.... not ur gangetic plains.. and is associated with muslims of the northern states!

 

[INDIC]

No urdu was born in the "muslim courts" of sultans in north.... not ur gangetic plains.. and is associated with muslims of the northern states!

So, how is Urdu related to related to current people of Indus valley when you guys are different from India. Do you see any Muslim from India claiming Pushto language or Baloch language as its own.

 

[indian_jigar]

No urdu was born in the "muslim courts" of sultans in north.... not ur gangetic plains.. and is associated with muslims of the northern states!

Urdu is from UP/Lucknow, this has been discussed 1000 times before. The reason Hindi and Urdu are so similar (when speaking, not text) is because they were both born in the same freaking place (UP). Its birth is in India, if you are going to claim IVC is not Indian because of geography, then similarly, you should stop using Urdu because Urdu geographically has nothing to do with Pakistan, just like:

All Mughal Emperors (Babur, Akbar, Humayun, Shah Jahan, Aurangzeb etc) - Indians by birth, Central Asian by origin
Tipu Sultan - Mysore
Abdali -Afghanistan
Ghauri - Afghanistan
Ghaznavi - Afghanistan
Durrani - Iran
Mir Qasim - Bengal
Mir Sadiq - Mysore
Mohammed Bin Qasim - Syria

 

[aakash_2410]

Since when did hindus become a race or an ethnicity... i think common logic is not very common in india...

There are many North Indian Hindus who believe Hindus is a race. (Hindu-Aryan) and they believe one can not become Hindu, either you are born Hindu or not.

I've seen the meditation-seating capsules in MoenJoDaro, and told they were used by Buddhist monks.

You should come visit some time too. Just take the current political tension or whatever it is out of your mind and come witness the history and the people you might have ancient links with.

Mate, I have visited Lothal (IVC sites that are in India) and none of them have any signs of Buddhism. You should google Indus Valley Civilisation. None of it is Buddhist. It is Pagan (Hinduism) religion and Buddhism is monotheistic religion.