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A Muslim majority Indus Valley Civilization?

And your government never taught you a thing about History.
Why don't you mention 47?
The root of the problem is that India is an aggressive country that wants to dominate South Asia.

In 47 Congress agreed that Muslims should have their own homeland, and that MUSLIM MAJORITY AREAS would go to Pakistan.

Included in these area was Punjab and Bengal, where Muslims made a small majority. Since Pakistan had no desire to creat hostility, we accepted the partition of Punjab and Benglal. We had no problems allowing the Sikhs and Hindus to go with the country they wanted. But even with India's size, she was not content and she tried to swallow up Kashmir even though it had a Muslim majority and should have gone to Pakistan on the deal India accepted.

The root of our problem is here. India's greed poisoned the atmosphere for the next 60 years and for the foreseeable future.
Please!!
the King, wanted an independent Kashmir, so he tried putting off accesion for as long as he could. But Pakistan, fearing India moving in the troops, sent Tribals instead...............they could be claimed as Pakistan's own if they won, and Non State actors if they lost...............but when the going got tough, regular Pakistani troops started pouring in support of the tribals, inside the Kashmir region, which is when the King signed the instrument of accesion and joined India.
You can reffer to the sources at the bottom of the page ,as my source...........
Indo-Pakistani War of 1947 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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I did not like the author's reference to "Arab cultural imperialism", the reason is because it has no basis in reality whatsoever. Any cultural practices some modern Pakistanis adopt from Arabs is usually due to their own misunderstandings of Islam that makes them believe that Arab culture is synonymous with Islamic culture. The fact is that Pakistanis generally tend to associate only with the Islamic aspect of their culture. While they do acknowledge their pre-Islamic civilizations, they as in common Pakistanis for the most part take no pride in them. The irony however is that while Pakistanis tend to associate with Islam, a huge majority of them rarely follow or understand Islam & its values. Moral corruption is rampant in Pakistani society, add that to the poor understanding of Islam in Pakistan. Islamic values such as the freedom of speech & thought, tolerance for different views, & many others are missing in the society.

In order for a nation to progress, it must have an identity unique to itself. This unique identity builds love & loyalty towards that respective nation & homeland. Pakistan has historically been home to a variety of different nations & the Harappan civilizations is just one of the many civilizations that existed in the Indus Valley. The Vedic civilization, & the Indo-Scythian & Parthian kingdoms are also a part of our history. Pakistanis are hybrids of all those different nations that existed on our land. Thus they must learn to take pride in their Harappan, Vedic, & other heritages & amalgamate them in to one. By doing so they will build a national identity that is unique to them & be able to work towards the progress of their homeland by a desire to become prosperous & attain as much self-sufficiency they possibly can. Islamic nationalism in Pakistan has somehow turned Muslims in to a race or an ethnicity, the fact however remains that Muslims are neither a race nor an ethnicity. Islam is a belief, & its adherents are called Muslims. Anyone on earth can convert to Islam & call himself or herself a Muslim. Islam does encourage a degree of Muslim unity, but it does not at all require people to stop honoring their racial or cultural origins. Neither does it forbid nationalism. In fact God honors the diversity of mankind's origins, languages, cultures, & appearances. Diversity is a sign of God, & isn't something to be neglected. By forming an identity on the basis of both origins & religion, Pakistanis can continue to take pride in Islam while having an identity specific to them.

Pakistan should make it a priority to give rights to all of its citizens regardless of their caste or creed, & focus on innovation, knowledge, & technology. The people must be taught to be tolerant, open minded, & willing to accept change by challenging the established norms. Challenging the established norms is one of the factors resulting in process as new concepts, ideas, & theories flow within the society. I know people that completely rejected the theory of evolution due to their flawed understanding of the theory itself. They reject the theory on religious grounds not considering the fact that it would be better for them to study the theory, analyze it, & then manage to make an informed decision relating to their acceptance of rejection of it. They might even be able to improve that theory or build upon it assuming that they have an interest in the field concerned with it. The point is that by outright rejecting this theory they seek to retain established beliefs thereby hindering creativity & progress. Willingness to accept change & the ability to think independently must be encouraged in the society. The people must be taught to stand up for their rights & reject any form of corruption or immoral activity that troubles a segment of the society or the nation at large.

These are just some of my views on the subject.
 
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Please!!
the King, wanted an independent Kashmir, so he tried putting off accesion for as long as he could. But Pakistan, fearing India moving in the troops, sent Tribals instead...............they could be claimed as Pakistan's own if they won, and Non State actors if they lost...............but when the going got tough, regular Pakistani troops started pouring in support of the tribals, inside the Kashmir region, which is when the King signed the instrument of accesion and joined India.
You can reffer to the sources at the bottom of the page ,as my source...........
Indo-Pakistani War of 1947 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Many Kings wanted independence, but India force all of them to chose India. Pakistan does not have a problem with that. Pakistan did not interfere with India on this either.
So why did India interfere with us? Pakistan was perfectly within its right to demand Kashmir to come to Pakistan since India was doing the same thing.

So once again, it was Indian greed that caused all this problem.
 
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Man!!!
Your govt really has done a good amount of brainwashing over you!!!
1965 war-
Operation Gibraltar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1971 war-
Operation Chengiz Khan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1998 war-
Kargil War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It was your country that started the war and ended up losing every time...............
If we had wanted to conquer the subcontinent, we would have made BD a state instead of letting it become an independent country............
We wouldn't have pulled IPKF when Premdasa requested..........
We could have easily marched into Bhutan and Nepal also............
BUT WE DIDNT..........
If you don't trust wiki, that's fine cause it has listed a lot of source links at the bottom..........feel free to check them out to verify

C-A-N-N-O-T
T-R-U-S-T
W-I-K-I

R-U-N
B-Y
R-A-W / C-I-A / M-O-S-S-A-D / Z-I-O-N-I-S-T-S
A-N-D
M-A-R-T-I-A-N-S..!!

bot.jpg


B-E-E-P
B-E-E-P
B-E-E-P

:lol:
 
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Asad Badruddin​
22 June 2012​

Who are we? For most of our history we have been caught between competing ideas about Pakistan. Is it a land for Muslims? What does an Islamic identity mean for the indigenous cultures of Punjab, Sindh, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, Balochistan, Gilgit–Baltistan and the people who migrated to India?

Greatness is created through synthesis, and when old ideas are challenged by new paradigms. The decade of the 1940s saw the North East states of British India challenged by secular Muslim nationalism. What does that mean to us? We are still in the process of understanding it. But in doing so, we have relied on too many easy answers. Our national identity is based on repudiation; we choose to identify ourselves in the negative: we are not India. Our inability to step forward is because we have failed to create any synthesis from the social and political currents available to us. Let us then challenge our paralysis and press forward with our inquiry — let us seek to imagine who we are, and who we could be.

Our history does not start with 1947, nor with Muhammed bin Qasim’s (in)famous and glorified conquest of Sindh. Those events are important but form an incomplete story of our past. Our heritage goes back to the Indus Valley Civilization, one of the first people to build the great cities of Moenjadaro and Harappa, a complex language and mathematical system, and centers of commerce in Asia. The source of this great civilization was the Indus River whose mighty banks nourished and fed its people. Today it is not nuclear weapons that protect our country but the Indus, whose artery and tributaries provide the life flow of our country. By remembering that we are the heirs of the Indus Valley Civilization, we can shift our focus from the anti to the river itself. We can concentrate on protecting our environment and saving the river that is literally the lifeblood of the country, and the source of our food and electricity. We are a natural nation bound by the Indus, if the Indus dries out the country will collapse.

This doesn’t mean that we completely ignore the advent of the Mughals, the conquest of the British, the height of Hindu-Muslim unity during the war of independence and its subsequent breakdown, despite the best efforts of members of the leadership class. And of course, the bloodshed in the years leading to Partition – events which concluded that religion was going to play a role, however so undefined, in the consciousness of the masses of Pakistan.

While religion comes from the same source, it is up to different countries and peoples on how to interpret it to enrich their lives. That is why the Islam practiced in Saudi Arabia is different from the one practiced in most of Pakistan. The role of religion (in all of its cultural, spiritual, non-denominational and ritual manifestations) will remain in society. What is important is for thinkers to channel it into a force that is creative and not destructive, inclusive and pluralistic, not one that imposes its will on the unwilling. One that is large enough to include free thinkers and conservative clerics. One that encourages selfishness and a spirit of citizenship. One that convinces individuals that they have greater aims than their everyday jobs, but does not encourage utopian personalities or apocalyptic thinking.

What is the relationship between the pre-Islamic, pre-Christian Indus Valley Civilization to today’s Islamic Republic of Pakistan? These two strands of the secular and religious deliberately create a powerful contradiction. Contradictions are good because they deny any single understanding of morality and create a vibrant society through debate and compromise.

Embracing our Indus past will enable us to reject Arab cultural imperialism in the name of religion, and will help us discard the Two-Nation Theory. We will be focused not on fighting wars with India, but in making the greatest cities in the world. Cities like those of the past, which valued trade and commerce and became the hub of Indo-Persian-Chinese commerce. Let our market places be flooded by people from all over the world and be a blend of cultures. We will be a country that celebrates diversity; ethnic diversity of the many languages and cultures around the ecosystem of the great river, and religious diversity, for it will be a country for (all types of) Muslims, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs who can respect this ecosystem. It will be a country that empowers its minorities. And once religion is prevented from being abused we can truly reconcile it with modernity and our legacy of British constitutionalism.

Once our conscious awakens to this idea, we will be a renewed nation. On the crumbling edifices of Moenjadaro and Harappa we will once more build great cities, and build a great country.

Asad Badruddin is from Karachi and holds a Bachelors in Quantitative Economics and International Relations from Tufts University, Boston. He blogs at octagonaltangents.blogspot.com and tweets @sasadb.

The views expressed by this blogger and in the following reader comments do not necessarily reflect the views and policies of the Dawn Media Group.


**********​

I thought this would be an interesting article to share & discuss on PDF. The discussion should be held in a civilized manner with tolerance for opposing views.

There are some parts of the article I disagree with, but I will be giving my personal views later on because it's getting late here & I need to sleep.

one day we were discussing, even if people of Philippians are more in number than very big countries like India and China in US, why Philippines is a poor country? even in case of Canada, we found immigration of Pakistanis reduced by 71% while that of Philippines was increased by 200% during last 10 years. but still per capita income of Philippians is less than 50% than Buddhist majority Thai People, thailand which doesnt have enough natural resources also? while whoever believed in themselves, whether German/ Japanese/ Russians/ French etc non-english people, they got full progress? what exactly Philippines got by having Christian religious background with almost free entry in US/Canada/Australia etc? full support in terms of technology also but so poor country, which also gets heavy remittances from the Western countries while it is of the size of a country like Bangladesh?

a clear outcome we found, "only those get success who believe in themselves, and are not dependent on others for help. a religious colony like Philippines will never be able to match with even Chinese, if they will keep their country on the mercy of West only."

and what I mean to say, even if Pakistani people maintain their Muslim background, they will get success only if they will trust in themselves, will think that they are Muslims but aren't a religous colony of Arabs. as, Pakistan has its own proud background of Indus Valley Civilization which is far more older/superior than rest of the world, making them having oldest 'civilization' of the world :tup:

GDP - PER CAPITA (PPP)

112 Thailand $ 9,700 2011 est.

120 China $ 8,400 2011 est.

159 Philippines $ 4,100 2011 est.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publica...eece&countryCode=gr&regionCode=eur&rank=49#gr
 
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As expected from an article written by a suckular moron. Doesn't know a $hit about Islam and comes to their usual biased conclusions. Any pre-islamic society has no relevance to today's muslim societies be it PAK, BD , malaysia or egypt or even pre-islamic arabia. Islamic is such a religion
that effects the every cultural aspect and is complete code of life. It is a religion ordained by
Allah(swt) as a mercy to mankind and free mankind from the shackles of oppression of the
pre-islamic times. That's the only islam spread like wildfire and only suckular munafiqs can
ask for a return of those times.

While religion comes from the same source, it is up to different countries and peoples on how to interpret it to enrich their lives. That is why the Islam practiced in Saudi Arabia is different from the one practiced in most of Pakistan. The role of religion (in all of its cultural, spiritual, non-denominational and ritual manifestations) will remain in society.

Embracing our Indus past will enable us to reject Arab cultural imperialism in the name of religion, and will help us discard the Two-Nation Theory.

This retard doesn't know a $hit about Islam but is out there spouting venom. There is no such
thing as imperialistic "arab culture". If non-arab muslims followed arab culture they would have
buries their baby girls alive and would have championed female infantacide like some other
countries. I don't think Pakistan burry their babies alive or do they?:confused:
It doesn't matter how islam is practiced in KSA or PAK. Islam should be practiced by the Holy
Quran. Only Quran and sunnah should be the standard of how islam is followed not some
country. I guess this suckular writer is talking about idol worshiping when he talks about
"embracing" indus past.
 
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and what I mean to say, even if Pakistani people maintain their Muslim background, they will get success only if they will trust in themselves, will think that they are Muslims but aren't a religous colony of Arabs. as, Pakistan has its own proud background of Indus Valley Civilization which is far more older/superior than rest of the world, making them having oldest 'civilization' of the world :tup:[/B]

I agree, Pakistanis must take pride in both their racial or ethnic & religious heritages.
 
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I agree, Pakistanis must take pride in both their racial or ethnic & religious heritages.

you couldnt understand my one main point, that is, "you have to first proud in yourself, a self respect that its you only who may help yourself and make your nation better, not the other nations on the name of religion/ race/ identity etc. and then only you may try to make your nation better than others."

the article is nicely talking about Hindu-Muslim unity during british rule etc. it also says that just dont become a colony of others because of religious background etc, which is in fact the very basic thing :agree:. just look on German, Japanese, French, Russians etc and see how did they get progress. they lost WW2 and then they tried to perform better than the WW2 winners and they did. while the winners of WW2, the French and Russians never tried to become part of the mess made in english speaking West which always kept them in the position that its only they who can help themselves and then they tried to perform better and they could prove themselves. while success story of US is mainly written by highly qualified Asian migrants otherwise just talk to those who are based in US/Canada/Australia/UK etc, these western people are simply not 'competent enough' on education level to do something by themselves, other than waiting for highly educated migrants who may help them have high techs? :meeting:
 
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Islam does encourage a degree of Muslim unity, but it does not at all require people to stop honoring their racial or cultural origins. Neither does it forbid nationalism. In fact God honors the diversity of mankind's origins, languages, cultures, & appearances. Diversity is a sign of God, & isn't something to be neglected. By forming an identity on the basis of both origins & religion, Pakistanis can continue to take pride in Islam while having an identity specific to them.

You are right , Islam does encourages diversity , language and culture but cultural aspects that
goes against Islamic principles is not permitted. That's why muslims around the world have
different cultural identity but stuff such as honor killings, female infantacide, revering idols of
past cultures and superstition have faded away. Will you worship the iodols or gods of Indus the
indus valley people? If not then what does the writer mean by embracing indus past. Tell me
how does current pak society is even remotely related to the past culture of indus valley ?
World wide muslims are culturally and linguistically diverse but the only thing that is common
is that we worship only Allah(swt) and no one else and we believe that prophet Muhammad(pbuh)
is the last messenger of Allah (swt) sent to the whole mankind and there by we believe in the 6
articles of faith (iman). :)
 
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As expected from an article written by a suckular moron. Doesn't know a $hit about Islam and comes to their usual biased conclusions. Any pre-islamic society has no relevance to today's muslim societies be it PAK, BD , malaysia or egypt or even pre-islamic arabia. Islamic is such a religion
that effects the every cultural aspect and is complete code of life. It is a religion ordained by
Allah(swt) as a mercy to mankind and free mankind from the shackles of oppression of the
pre-islamic times. That's the only islam spread like wildfire and only suckular munafiqs can
ask for a return of those times.

This retard doesn't know a $hit about Islam but is out there spouting venom. There is no such
thing as imperialistic "arab culture". If non-arab muslims followed arab culture they would have
buries their baby girls alive and would have championed female infantacide like some other
countries. I don't think Pakistan burry their babies alive or do they?:confused:
It doesn't matter how islam is practiced in KSA or PAK. Islam should be practiced by the Holy
Quran. Only Quran and sunnah should be the standard of how islam is followed not some
country. I guess this suckular writer is talking about idol worshiping when he talks about
"embracing" indus past.

Calling the author of the article a "suckular moron" or a "retard" isn't exactly a civilized manner of debating & neither will it result in a peaceful discussion. There were a countless number of pre-Islamic civilizations in the past & I am sure all of them weren't oppressing their people. The Greco-Roman civilizations are good examples of glorious pre-Islamic civilizations that contributed in every field known to mankind all the way from architecture to mathematics. Islam is indeed the true religion because it will lead mankind in to heaven, but religion does not require people to forget about their heritage. Remember that God himself honors the diversity of mankind. Our pre-Islamic ancestors & nations are also a part of our history & being their descendants we have every right to honor them. Honoring your roots is not the equivalent of paganism.

God says in the Noble Quran; chapter 49 verse 13:

O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted.

I do agree with you that there is no such thing as "Arab cultural imperialism", & I have already refuted that in my previous post #17.

You are right , Islam does encourages diversity , language and culture but cultural aspects that
goes against Islamic principles is not permitted. That's why muslims around the world have
different cultural identity but stuff such as honor killings, female infantacide, revering idols of
past cultures and superstition have faded away. Will you worship the iodols or gods of Indus the
indus valley people? If not then what does the writer mean by embracing indus past. Tell me
how does current pak society is even remotely related to the past culture of indus valley ?
World wide muslims are culturally and linguistically diverse but the only thing that is common
is that we worship only Allah(swt) and no one else and we believe that prophet Muhammad(pbuh)
is the last messenger of Allah (swt) sent to the whole mankind and there by we believe in the 6
articles of faith (iman). :)

I will never worship anyone besides Allah; the one & only God. When people talk about honoring their previous civilizations, they refer to taking pride in the glory of their ancestors. Cultures always evolve over time, Pakistan's culture may be completely different 10 years from now, but that does not mean that we shouldn't take pride in the evolution of our culture.

I believe that a country should have a mixture of both racial & religious nationalism. Racial nationalism builds unity within a nation & motivates them to struggle for the prosperity of their country. Religious nationalism helps maintain morality within a society & concomitantly aids mankind in being successful in the next world. Pakistan needs a mixture of both forms of nationalism.
 
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you couldnt understand my one main point, that is, "you have to first proud in yourself, a self respect that its you only who may help yourself and make your nation better, not the other nations on the name of religion/ race/ identity etc. and then only you may try to make your nation better than others."

I did understand your post don't worry lol. :lol: I am extremely proud of myself (thank God) & I respect & admire both my ethnic & religious heritages.

I agree that only Pakistanis can improve their nation, no foreigners or foreign power on earth can help us to prosper or become successful. All other nations struggled & worked hard to build their countries, but Pakistanis have neglected their country resulting in terrorism, corruption, & a decline in moral values.
 
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Get a life troll. There is something called Islamic civilization:

Map_of_expansion_of_Caliphate.svg

The Islamic civilization was extremely glorious & is a reminder of a time when Muslims were tolerant, progressive, & innovative.

However, I don't want Pakistanis to claim the inventions & discoveries of Arab & Persian Muslims as their own. Although, there is nothing wrong with them taking pride in the fact that it was Muslims who invented & discovered lots of things in the past.

Pakistan needs to encourage creativity & innovation. Learning about the Arab Islamic & Greco-Roman civilizations & adopting & building upon their good values will help us foster an environment that leads to scientific & technological progress.
 
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The Islamic civilization was extremely glorious & is a reminder of a time when Muslims were tolerant, progressive, & innovative.

However, I don't want Pakistanis to claim the inventions & discoveries of Arab & Persian Muslims as their own. Although, there is nothing wrong with them taking pride in the fact that it was Muslims who invented & discovered lots of things in the past.

Pakistan needs to encourage creativity & innovation. Learning about the Arab Islamic & Greco-Roman civilizations & adopting & building upon their good values will help us foster an environment that leads to scientific & technological progress.

Egyptians, Algerians, Syrians, Moroccans, and Iraqis etc have huge contribution to the islamic civilization. What you must know that people in those countries are NOT Arabs by ethnic and or by other genetic means.

The true arabs are khaleejiis (Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Kuwait, UAE, Qatar), which have absolutely no contribution to science and technology.
 
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