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A Muslim majority Indus Valley Civilization?

Could we have some evidence other than your anonymous statement that you are the author of this article? There have already been the only two representatives of the Islamic point of view, each contradicting the other, and both full of half-baked ideas and bazaar wisdom. How do we know who is authentic and who is not? What gives us an assurance that you are who you say you are? And not yet another fan-boy donning false beard and moustache to add numbers to a losing cause?

As for your somewhat shallow objections to the objections - it may come as a surprise to you, but there can be more than opinion among a common group, and neither group claims unique and sole authenticity - unlike your warring heroes. There is one section of Indians who see Pakistanis from the catchment area of the Indus River as indigenous; another group responds not to the masses whom they know already to be indigenous, but to the loud-mouthed who claim descent from a person one generation in the seventh century, and simultaneously proclaim that they, as descendants of this figure, have been migrating to a part of the sub-continent for four hundred years - approximately 14 generations - before their putative ancestor was born. There is no attempt at beating you out of your natural heritage. The discussion is about what constitutes your heritage, and on what grounds.

But all that to visible and accountable entities, not with another mysterious person in anonymous garb.

We might just as well clarify the mistaken and misunderstood portions of your gallant effort to those Pakistanis and South Asians who think as we do, outside the chains of Slavery to a national identity.

Do you think I care Indian if you trust my word? If any of my brothers says I am not who I say I am, that I will be disturbed. Precisely what would you like to present as proof "Joe Sherer"? Shall I send you a stool sample?


Some Pakistanis are indigenous. Others are of foreign descent. Others are a mix. WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM with THIS? Go worry about the dead floating bodies in the ganges. Leave us and our beautiful, clean, healthy indus.
 
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Do you think I care Indian if you trust my word? If any of my brothers says I am not who I say I am, that I will be disturbed. Precisely what would you like to present as proof "Joe Sherer"? Shall I send you a stool sample?


Some Pakistanis are indigenous. Others are of foreign descent. Others are a mix. WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM with THIS? Go worry about the dead floating bodies in the ganges. Leave us and our beautiful, clean, healthy indus.


I take it that this is a round-about way of saying that there is no proof, that we have a fake, a masquerader with us.

Your stool sample cannot be hugely different from your comment.
 
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Why is it that every time an ignoramus is unable to come up with a response, we get this kind of despairing personal attack, devoid of instances or substance? We saw it with that ludicrous clown with a chip on his shoulder about Christianity, or Christianism, as he insists on calling it, and we see it again here. Not that I am calling anyone a ludicrous clown on this thread, but if the output is identical, the sources must be described in identical fashion.

Who is this person that hates Christianity? It's obviously not someone on this thread, but I never heard anyone on this forum talk about "Christianism" lol. In fact the idea of Christian unity is pretty much dead.
 
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I agree with joe... hes a tamil or south indian who can trace his ancestors from punjab,sindh,baluchistan n KPK... who probably later migrated to southern part of india and adopted their culture,language and appearance.. ............ right? :undecided:
 
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I agree with joe... hes a tamil or south indian who can trace his ancestors from punjab,sindh,baluchistan n KPK... who probably later migrated to southern part of india and adopted their culture,language and appearance.. ............ right? :undecided:

And you would know how the IVC people looked like to compare Tamilians and south Indians in general, right?
 
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Who is this person that hates Christianity? It's obviously not someone on this thread, but I never heard anyone on this forum talk about "Christianism" lol. In fact the idea of Christian unity is pretty much dead.

Another thread. A Chinese boy who can't write English to save his life and has a virulent hatred of Christianity.

I agree with joe... hes a tamil or south indian who can trace his ancestors from punjab,sindh,baluchistan n KPK... who probably later migrated to southern part of india and adopted their culture,language and appearance.. ............ right? :undecided:

<sigh>

Veeeeeery funny.
 
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And you would know how the IVC people looked like to compare Tamilians and south Indians in general, right?

I bet u do... u took pictures and took video footage right? there was no entity like india before the brits... even ur himachal etc was part of Nepal which the british annexed... sames with almost all other states... even punjab was a kingdom... india is nothing but a product of the british colonials..
 
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I bet u do... u took pictures and took video footage right? there was no entity like india before the brits... even ur himachal etc was part of Nepal which the british annexed... sames with almost all other states... even punjab was a kingdom... india is nothing but a product of the british colonials..
Oh come on, why do you keep going into hyperbole.. I just asked that since you made a statement about someone from Tamil Nadu and south India, you of course would know how they looked, right?
 
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I bet u do... u took pictures and took video footage right? there was no entity like india before the brits... even ur himachal etc was part of Nepal which the british annexed... sames with almost all other states... even punjab was a kingdom... india is nothing but a product of the british colonials..

Is it that you can't read, or don't want to read?

How many times does the difference between political, geographical and cultural India have to be spelt out?

Political India is 65 years old (actually, closer to 300 years); geographical India dates from around 550 BC, and cultural India from 2500 BC or so.

Again, as already clearly explained, the IVC left no civilisational legacy. Its ownership is not in doubt; most of the prominent and well-known sites fall within the national territory of Pakistan. Its legacy is partly distributed among its genetic descendants, and the people who stay around the sites today. Not to the state, but two of the peoples of Pakistan. It is also distributed among all Dravidian language speakers, and among all who belong to cultural India.

Lol, forget about it. There is no point in detesting any religion anyway.

Not a particular religions. That is loathsome, bigotry.

But I oppose ALL religion as cynically contrived deceptions of humanity. Let us agree to dîffer. There is no common meeting ground on that issue.
 
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dont be an idiot, you are the first one to attack us :P There is nothing like muslim unity . Not even in your country .

Do we really want to rehash junagarh, kashmir, hyderabad, goa, sikkim, minicoy, mandavar, forward policy, sri lanka ?
why does the neighborhood hate you?
 
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Establishing our heritage on the basis of the Indus Valley Civilization is a good idea, but it isn't perfect. The reason for this is the arrival of the Aryans. All of our languages descend from either Sanskrit or Avestan towards the west of the country. Most Pakistanis are mixed with the Aryans & some of us even resemble them considerably. Those who aren't mixed with the Indo-Aryans or Indo-Iranians are still culturally & linguistically Indo-Aryan. The country's Indo-Aryan heritage is a better choice in my opinion to base our heritage on. Of course, people can continue to take pride in the Indus Valley Civilization as well.
 
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^^

Guy's we covered this area in some detail in another thread and I am a strong advocate of the Indus Man. I would also like to add here that you guy's should respect Joe. I have had some intense debates with him and we agreed on some points. On others we agreed to disagree.

I would say that Punjabi's and Sindhi's have the primary rights over IVC. The two epicentres of IVC, Harrapa is in Punjab and Mohenjo Daro is in Sindh. However no civilization will fit cleanly into modern borders. Secondary influences can be seen over the border in Afghanistan and India.

At a tertiery level the effects and influences of this civilization would have gone well beyond the Indus Valley. In that sense Indian's can claim to have been within the magnetic pull of IVC. We in Pakistan should not have any problem with that as long as Indian's recognize that the Sindhi's and Punjabi's were central to IVC. Of course Sindh and Punjab are in Pakistan minus the Indian Punjab.

Since Sindh and Punjab are federated into Pakistan and both make up some 75% of Pakistan it would be acceptable to identify IVC with Pakistan. May I give the example of Hellas civilization which today is called after the modern state Greece. There was no Greek state in ancient times with the name 'Greece'. However the Hellenic Civilization centred around Athens, Sparta and other cities is today identified with modern Greece.

The civilzation born there and it's evolved product today called 'Western' is claimed by all of Europe. That however does not detract the fact that all Europeans accept that the fountain of this civilization was in modern day Greece. I definitely do not see Europeans who openly take pride in this civilization refusing or trying to deny the modern Greeks the credit goes to them in blessing Europe with wonders of Ancient Greeks.

I don't either see the Europeans saying to the Greeks 'Oh you guy's are Christian now and gave up on the Ancient Hellas and don't worship Zeus anymore'. Eurpeans will accept and credit modern Greece as the crucible of their civilization. Maybe which is why Greeks don't complainn about of half of European cities have centres cloned on the Parthenon. Even Washington DC seems to a replica of a Ancient Greek City [ for the wideguy's here I know Dc has been cloned on Rome but Rome itself was modelled on Hellen architecture.

I think all this is about recent Indian-Pakistan history of wars and animosity. The Indian's cannot accept that the people of Pakistan might have primary rights over IVC when they look at them as the enemy, the Islamic terrorist nursery etc. So they just claim on the real estate of Pakistan without accepting her people. It is like they assume 180 million must have been teleported from somewhere else.

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I have tried to keep away from this debate because I lost interest in this subject and once that happens you lose the edge. Instead I have been doing more reading on this.
 
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Do we really want to rehash junagarh, kashmir, hyderabad, goa, sikkim, minicoy, mandavar, forward policy, sri lanka ?
why does the neighborhood hate you?
if neighborhood consists of Pakistan alone yeah, many reasons because they never could see India for all it is, better in many areas..
 
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